How much gas for 6 nights?

[greencardigan]

Hi,

I'm doing the overland track next week and am unsure how much gas I will need to take.

There will be 2 of us for 6 nights. Most likely we'll each have a rehydrated meal each night + a few hot drinks per day.

A pic of my stove is attached.

I'm thinking we'll need 2 x 250g cylinders like the one attached? O should I go for a brand with iso-butane?

Thanks.

[Darren]

G'day
I have the same snow peak stove, boil water for each meal (no simmering) and have a few hot drinks a day. Two 220 gm canisters will do fine just don’t turn it up too much when you cook . I used about one and a half when i took my wife on the o/t. bushwalking.org has a lot about this subject and Rodger is very knowledgeable. From memory average is about 30g a day. You could also weigh a canister, Simulate 24 hrs of cooking then re weigh.
Hope that helps
Darren

[Tony]

Hi greencardigan,

Darren is correct 30 grams a day is a good standard but to get this consistently it requires some practice with not setting the flame to high, add a bit for cold weather. I used about 1.3 230g canisters when I did the OT in winter type conditions 5 days, this was with two people and before I learnt how to use canister stoves properly.

I also would like to recommend Roger Caffins bushwalking.org faq site for stove information

Edit: rather than take two 230g canister look at taking one 450g cainister you will save some weight

Tony

[sthughes]

Yep I concur on the quantities mentioned. On the iso-butane front I would definatley opt for an iso-butane/propane mix over the butane/propane mix. I used a couple of those Coleman canisters (pictured) earlier this year on a car camping trip. Temps were around 4 degrees in the morning and cooking was terribly slow, in any wind it would have been useless. Of course if you keep tthe canister warm it's not such an issue. I usually use 100g canisters which do me about 3-4 nights and can be easily fitted in a pocket or slept with in my sleeping bag to keep warm. On 6 days with 2 people a 450g would be the go (or I guess 2x250 would be easier to keep warm - but heavier & bulkier).

[woka]

bushwalking.org has a lot about this subject and Rodger is very knowledgeable.Darren

That's bushwalking.org.au and the fuels info is here: http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Efficiency.htm

[Darren]

G'Day
One other thing i do if i think it might run close is throw a hexi tablet in my kit. You can use 3 small rocks as a stand and it can double as an emergency fire starter.
Better than re hydrating meals in cold water.

I did meet a bloke once that didnt use stoves and did all hid re hydrating in cold. He recomended using salt water and things like pasta ususally took about 1 1/2 hours . Sounds a bit rough though

Darren

[norts]

I would recommend 2 cannisters rather than 1 large. I have seen 2 cannisters fail. This was the valve after taking the stove off. We had to keep the stove on the bottle.
Also the stove is lower to the ground with the smaller bottle, more stable, and less wind.

Roger

[Tony]

I would recommend 2 cannisters rather than 1 large. I have seen 2 cannisters fail. This was the valve after taking the stove off. We had to keep the stove on the bottle.
Also the stove is lower to the ground with the smaller bottle, more stable, and less wind.

Roger

Hi Roger,

I have never had a canister Lindal valve fail or leak, although I have heard of it happening once or twice, I have run hundreds of tests on canister stoves and I have even refill canisters sometimes and have never had a problem. (CAUTION it can be very dangerous to refill canisters and it is illegal in some places I do not advise anyone else to refill canisters)

I did some tests a few years back with putting my stove (Pocket Rocket) on a full canister and then weighing it, I then left the stove on the canister over night and then reweighing the stove/canister and every time I did this I had lost some gas. Now I always remove the stove after cooking.

I also doubt that stability would be a problem on a 450g canister, it would be much more stable that using a 100g canister.

Tony

[Nuts]

I'd have 2 (and small cannisters). Shorter windscreen, less wind effect, backup (just in case) a bit easy to stow in the pack.
Do you have any info on refilling tony. I know it's illegal here, apparently they are done commercially somewhere up there? I have a heap, such a shame, I suspect the place I get them from just chucks them when i return them.

[norts]

Tony, both times it happened was as the stove was being removed from the canister. One time we just let it vent as it was at mornos on the last day. Both times it happened it was with nearly empty canisters.
Dont know why it happened.

Roger

[moldyform]

while on the topic of gas, i was wondering if these canisters can be taken in check in luggage on flights?

[BarryJ]

Short answer is NO.

Longer answer (from the QANTAS web site):

The US Transportation Security Administration has banned the carriage on aircraft of torch cigarette lighters to, from or through the United States and it's territories. The US authorities will impose heavy penalties on the carriage of these items.

Smokers are permitted to carry Safety matches (one small packet) or a cigarette lighter. These are only permitted to be carried in your pocket (not in your carry-on or checked baggage). Passengers are reminded that smoking in the aircraft at any time is strictly prohibited.


What are Dangerous Goods

Dangerous Goods are items that may endanger the safety of an aircraft or persons on board the aircraft.

Dangerous Goods are also known as restricted articles, hazardous materials and dangerous cargo. Their carriage on Qantas aircraft is primarily governed by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority Regulations.

Dangerous Goods must not be carried in (or as) passenger or crew-checked baggage or carry-on baggage, except as indicated in the table below. Security type attache cases incorporating Dangerous Goods, such as lithium batteries or pyrotechnic devices, are totally forbidden.

Disabling devices such as mace, pepper spray, etc. containing an irritant or incapacitating substance are prohibited on the person, in checked and carry-on baggage.



Gas cylinders are specifically shown in the image.

[moldyform]

yeah and thats what i thought, so last night i called jetstar, who we are going with, and he said yes it is fine to take a cylinder in your carry on and check in luggage. I double checked him and told him exactly what it was a 450ml butain gas cylinder and again he said it was fine.

Ok, not satisfied completley i called vergin blue who we are comming back with and again she said that yes it is fine but it is better to put it in the check in luggage.

Anyone else have any other experiences doing this?

[sthughes]

Last time I flew Virgin Blue they made me remove my matches from my check in luggage and throw them out. Only ever asked about gas once and that was on Airlines of Tasmania to Flinders Island and they said definatly not (even though they only fly at very low altitude).
I would say it's a bad idea. The fire proof baggage containers they use are not designed to stop a gas fueled fire (demonstrated on a plane that caught fire and burnt half the passengers alive when some oxygen cartriges went of and inflammed a fire). Of course one canister shouldn't make a big difference - but whats good for one is good for all and I for one would not want to be on a plane with 150 passengers all with 450g of gas in their luggage.

[Darren]

G'Day Moldyform
That is quite bizarre, they ask you if you have anything like that when you check your bags, there are displays with these items in clearly showing you can’t take them yet they have said yes. I have heard of people not being able to take those red aluminium fuel canisters for MSR stoves even if they are empty, and that people pretend they are for water to try and get them through.
I think you should make arrangements to get gas in Tassie but then attempt to check you bags with one in your bag based on your information. Tell them at check in that it is there then report back to us on what happens.
If it’s ok it would save us mainlanders a lot of hassle
Thanks
Darren

[BarryJ]

When you phone, you probably get someone in a call centre who has no real idea of the rules and regulations. It is the person at the check in point (for checked luggage) and at the security checkpoint (for carry on luggage) who make the final decisions. What they say goes at that point in time, irrespective of what has been said over the phone, posted on a web site or posted on a forum somewhere.

[johnw]

I agree, don't do it Moldyform. Gas cartridges are forbidden under any circumstances. It is well documented. I would advise against testing this. At the very least you will lose the cartridge/s. They will ask at check-in if you have any dangerous goods. If you did attempt to get them through without declaring them, when the luggage is x-rayed and they find them the consequences could be far more serious.

I even had a box of matches confiscated by Jetstar, regardless that their own documentation clearly states that it's OK (and I pointed this out to them). The staff training and communication in this area for both airlines mentioned leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.

And you can get gas in Tassie as has been said. It's a nuisance but not difficult to arrange. Just don't forget to get it though.

PS For peace of mind I'd also opt for the 2 smaller ~230gm cartridges for 6 nights. Although we managed to complete the last trip of that length with just one of those. Unfortunately had to return the second one to the supplier in Tassie paid for but unused.