advice on 4-season 2-person tent

[nickthetasmaniac]

ordered the orange, wasn't a fan of the green

[loric]

same colour as mine. looks ace in the snow. bet ya can't wait huh!?

[Orion]

do you mind if i ask what you ended up getting?

A bit late I suppose, but we got a Hilleberg Nallo 3. Supposedly a three person tent (we're just two people) but we found it to be more of a roomy two person tent with a big vestibule which are very nice features when everything gets wet. Only a few ounces heavier than the Nallo 2 and lighter than anything else with similar dimensions that we looked at. NOT free standing though. You get used to that pretty quick. Also kind of expensive but we felt it paid for itself pretty quick.

As I said before, no tent is perfect. I hope you're happy with what you decided on.

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[alliecat]

if it ain't a Hilleberg it ain't a home

Now that is a great quote. I may have to steal it for my signature

The more I use my Nallo the more I love it. I had to set it up a few weeks ago by myself when absolutely exhausted (I went a bit too fast after having been sick the week before, not clever, I know) and it was a doddle to get up and looking good even with my hands shaking. I was so happy to crawl into it and collapse. I love my Nallo

Now if only I could justify the expense of getting an Akto for my solo trips....

[Paul]

I purchased a Hilleberg Akto from BackCountryGear in the States - service was excellent. I am extremely pleased with its performance, have used it in the Western Lakes area during a "storm alert" - rainfall was torrential, but I remained completely dry. Gale force winds didnt bother it. Also on top of Mt Ironstone. Wonderful for solo walking.

Paul.

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[luke_vic]

Has anyone with a Nallo had any structural failures? These guys in the link below used to call a Hilleberg a home...

http://www.sierra-nevada-news.com/2008/ ... hies-food/

http://www.sierra-nevada-news.com/2008/ ... ing-after/

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[Orion]

There are plenty of stories of broken poles and shredded winter tents due to high winds. I wonder how well they guyed out their tent? You see slack lines in the photo but it isn't clear how they had it set up originally.

It's obvious to anyone with a brain that an ultralight tent isn't going to be as strong as a heavier model. Hilleberg says this explicitly on their website for those who can't make the mental leap on their own. Hilleberg makes another model that is essentially the Nallo with heavier fabric and poles. It's also possible to double up on the poles.

My guess: pilot error.

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[alliecat]

Brett,

Thanks for such an informative and thoughtful post. It is very reassuring to read a letter from a manufacturer that wasn't just marketing-speak, but clear, factual, and useful information. I feel even better about my Hilleberg now, and that's saying something!

Very interesting point about the over-tensioning of the guy lines. I knew that there was a point beyond which tightening the lines would be to the detriment of the tent's stability, but I didn't really know how to judge that. The notion of the lines "holding" on to the tent but not "pulling" on it gives me a better idea of how to judge the correct tension. So thanks to you and the Hilleberg family for that.

Cheers,
Alliecat

(To the tune of a well-known Peter Allen song...)
I stiiiiill call my Hilleberg, hoooooooooome

[tasadam]

<snip> and secondly the information on tensioning the tent poles. On that matter I appear to be over tensioning my tent polls.

Firstly, great to see you are putting your lay-up time to good use post-knee op.
Secondly, thank you for following this one through. An excellet reply indeed.
Thirdly, I too appear to be over-tensioning my guy lines so I have learnt something from this.

What a great forum!

[luke_vic]

Great research Brett, and an excellent reply from Petra Hilleberg. As a brand, i agree it's hard to surpass the quality and level of customer service of Hilleberg. And her email response confirms this.

However, on the broader topic of lightweight tents, as Petra explains - poles can break in strong winds, even if eveything is in check. Depending where your camping, broken poles could spell a complete disaster!

There is no such thing as a free lunch here, and a 2kg tunnel tent with 2x 9mm poles (ie Nallo) will not be as structurally sound as a 3kg tunnel tent with 3x 10mm poles (ie Macpac Olypmus).

Lightweight is good, but how light is too light?
Is it worth going light on other less critical items on your gear list?

[tasadam]

Great research Brett, and an excellent reply from Petra Hilleberg. As a brand, i agree it's hard to surpass the quality and level of customer service of Hilleberg. And her email response confirms this.

However, on the broader topic of lightweight tents, as Petra explains - poles can break in strong winds, even if eveything is in check. Depending where your camping, broken poles could spell a complete disaster!

There is no such thing as a free lunch here, and a 2kg tunnel tent with 2x 9mm poles (ie Nallo) will not be as structurally sound as a 3kg tunnel tent with 3x 10mm poles (ie Macpac Olypmus).

Lightweight is good, but how light is too light?
Is it worth going light on other less critical items on your gear list?

Interesting question.
Makes me wonder, is a lightweight tent with 2 sets of poles a better option than say the Nammatj with one set of poles?
The Nallo2 has 9mm poles and the Nammatj has 10mm poles. 700 grams difference packed weight but for an extra set of poles.
I wonder how much a set of poles weighs. They're downstairs, I'll find out later.
Not that it matters, I think it unlikely I will be needing anything stronger than my Nallo2 as is.

[corvus]

tasadam.
How does the Nallo2 stack up against the "Snow Cave" for 4 season performance.
c

[tasadam]

tasadam.
How does the Nallo2 stack up against the "Snow Cave" for 4 season performance.
c

Yep, that my friend, is a brilliant question.
My honest take on it, given my limited experience with the Nallo2 -
The snowcave was heavy - literally twice the weight of the Nallo2. So it was somewhat more solid, though the technology in the fabric was 20 years old.
It had 3 poles plus a ridge pole if you can be bothered putting it in.
It had 3 guy ropes each side.
So it stands to reason that it should be stronger (so long as the fabric improvements aren't THAT much better).

The Nallo2 is made from light weight (and the key word here is weight) fabric that is strong - 12 kilo tear strength sounds impressive but what does it actually mean?
It only has two poles. The pegs are somewhat smaller and are very VERY light.

My only concern with the Nallo2 at this stage are the length and therefore strength in the ground, of the pegs.
I can buy after-market pegs, or take the pegs from the Snowcave if I want to. But at this stage, the good Tassie soil has been reliable for the Nallo2 pegs.

Would I hesitate in pitching it anywhere the Snowcave went? No.
Would I have a rough night because of it?
Well, to be honest, even in the Snowcave on a rough night I don't sleep comfortably, and I have a plan prepared in case things get really really bad...
Like, on the Snowcave's last major exhibition expedition (that's what I meant - that was the wine talking again), Mt Anne Feb 2008, having climbed Mt Anne that day and returning to Shelf Camp, other posts on this forum will show photos of how well the tent was anchored down, and we got a front (which I knew about) come across that night, bringing a reasonable amount of snow (summer, late February). It was a restless nights sleep, and my backup plan was (bearing in mind this is in case of total disaster like tent destruction on the wind or something) -
Get all gear on including Japara and plastic pants
Get readily eatable food in pockets
Water bottle accessable
Head torches on
Compass and whistle around neck
Pack all gear as quickly as possible into the packs
Stay together and plod on through the night toward Eliza Hut
Take rest and shelter behind boulders etc when necessary
Map and GPS accessable in case cairned route cannot be found
And so it goes....
But of course it wasn't necessary, the front was nowhere near that bad. Just a bit of wind and snow.
If it was forecast to be cyclonic I don't reckon I would have risked staying there.

I see no reason why I wouldn't do the same in the Hilleberg. Time will tell, surely one of these days I will get some bad weather when I go walking.
Worst I have had was on Moonlight Ridge with a mate in his Chinese copy of a tunnel tent, tent destruction like you wouldn't believe but I live to walk another day.
Would I pitch the Hilleberg on Moonlight Ridge in preparation for that night? NO! But I wouldn't pitch the Snowcave there either.

[corvus]

Tasadam,
You still love your Snowcave dont you just like I do except yours was really well used and mine is but a maiden yet with lots of use for share use to come in future.
c

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[loric]

On guy line tension...

Not sure on the other brands out there, but the Wilderness Equipment tents come with 'bungee' guy lines.
At the tent side of each guy is a loop made of 4mm bungee cord.
When i tension my guy lines, all i have to do is set the length such that the bungee loop is halfway to full stretch.

This seems to work well. I've had the WE 1stArrow up on Bogong (Vic) in 140km/hr gusts (90km/hr+ averaged) and the guy lines were humming.
(The tent was slapping side to side a whole lot too - even though it was end-on into the wind).

I don't think i want to repeat that 'error of judgement' again. All OK that the tent doesn't blow away but it's near impossible to sleep with all that racket (and fear that your tent is going to blow away) LOL

Back to the point - the elastic guy lines make setting guy tension dead easy and has the added benefit of the 'give' when you trip on them in the night.

[sml_12]

Hi all. Great lot of information which has been awesome - just wondering if I could throw in a couple of questions (hope that they're not too off track..)?
I'll be heading to Tassie in the next month or so (I hope) and am looking at purchasing a tent - mostly at this stage as a back-up accommodation option until I figure out what I'm doing, but I also would like it to be suitable for any future walking trips I might take. I've been looking at the Hilleberg Akto and the Nallo 2 specifically because they seem to have received such good reviews, but I wondered if any of you might offer a little extra insight? I am wondering how the space in the Akto would be over an extended period of time compared to a two person tent like the Nallo 2? I was interested in the Single person option primarily because a) I am travelling on my own, and b) I have an existing back injury and thought it would be a good idea to keep the weight down where possible. I will also have limited space initially as I will only have a bike & trailer for transport.
On the other hand - I don't want to go stir crazy sitting in a tiny tent for days on end. I just wondered if anyone had any comments that might be useful. Thus far, I have had very limited tent experience as we just slept on swags outdoors when we went out bush. A space blanket over the top was about the closest we came to "tenting" it. I think I've slept in a tent maybe 5 times........... Pardon my ignorance.

[loric]

My wife and I cycle-toured Tas three winters ago. We rode from Davenport, via Launceston, Scottsdale, St Marys, ColesBay to Hobart. Then punted around the Huon, Port Arthur etc. We intended to return to Davenport via Miena, but got snowed-out! and had to hire a car to drive back to the ferry.

On that trip I carried the fly only of the WE 1st Arrow. Worked OK with a groundsheet. However, we stayed at 'proper' accomodation every few days to have a good hot hot shower!

I decided on the fly only as we were restricted volume wise. I carried 4 panniers and a handlebar bag and the wet weather gear and warm clothing took up a lot of space. I think this may be a winter thing tho.
One thing's for sure, you'll have fun.
We've cycletoured a lot in Vic, SA, WA and Tas - and Tas is by far the best!
(esp the east coast - best place in the world to cycletour)

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[nickthetasmaniac]

Well, the First Arrow arrived today and after playing with it in the backyard for a bit i thought i'd write up a mini-report

First impressions:

Positives-
in the bag...
Packed up, it's small i hadn't seen it packed before so this was a nice surprise.
It's also slightly lighter in the hand than expected.
Bag draw-string doubles as spare guy-rope.
Pole and peg bags are attached, meaning less to lose.
setting up...
Once you get the small end pegged, it's quite easy to slightly rearrange the tent.
The whole design of the entrance-way is brilliant.
Main vestibule has HEAPS of usable space.
Floor is a single sheet; corners are folded, rather than cut and stitched.
A small flat of material stops stuff getting blown in at the zip corners.
Floating pole connectors is a simple and wonderful idea.

negatives:
It's confusing to set-up, seems like there's material and lines going everywhere... (no doubt i'll get used to this)
The small end is SMALL; difficult to get to the zips at this end, and i'm not sure about WE's claims that this is a second entrance... That said, the design has plenty of head-room where you generally need it.
It was difficult to make the main pole sit correctly when pegging the front of the tent. (i'm probably doing it wrong)
Pegs, while very light and stiff, don't have a 'top' and are painful to put in by hand. Design also seems to be inviting chafe.

The big one; when tightening guy-ropes, one of rope sections pulled out of the shock-cord part (under virtually no pressure, only taken-up until there was no slack in the shock cord...) This was obviously a manufacturing error so i'll take it back in tomorrow and see what they say...

Generally though, very pleased I'll write a field report after uni semester finishes.

[loric]

Glad you're chuffed, shame about the dodgy guyline... (did s'one else have this prob recently??)
If it's any help - i've found WE to be excellent wrt customer service and queries. They should be made aware of the dodgy guyline issue tho

When i pack up my tent, i wind up all the guylines individually and tie them up. Also, the tape straps that run from the pole ends under the inner have to be kept tidy.Once you develop a system to put everything away it becomes a piece of cake.
The ONLY time that i've had a mess of a tangle is when i let s'one else stuff the tent away without rolling it up neatly! LOL.

For setup: The three tensioner lines that attach to the black rainshields should be slack- once i 'fly' off the small pegged end i peg the big end so it's taut (but not really tight). Then 'stretch' the tent out lengthwise by repositioning the pole ends so that the fly is not slack at the bottom edge. Then the ladderlocs, finally the three tensioners and guys. If the tensioners are done up too much they collapse the vestibules a bit and the vestibule will flap in the wind.

I never use the small end as an entrance. You have to be a midget wombat to fit through that!

A tip is to get some fat rubber bands and loop them around the top 'inner clips' that hold the inner up at the big end. Makes for a handy clothes hanger-upper.

[corvus]

Good comment as regardless of the Tent all guy lines should be rolled up individually and if possible tied with a fig 8 knot.
c

[Nuts]

Unless you buy a hilleberg I wonder how long it will take for others to adopt their 'double slider' attached guylines?
Nothin left for the boyscout types though, i guess

[Son of a Beach]

Unless you buy a hilleberg I wonder how long it will take for others to adopt their 'double slider' attached guylines?
Nothin left for the boyscout types though, i guess

Exped have something similar on the Vela (although I've not actually used the ropes yet). They also have tiny mesh pouches attached to each guy line to bundle the ropes into when not in use (no need to tie them up when packing the tent, just stuff them into their pouches). When the ropes are in use, the bright yellow pouches hang off the middle of the rope so that you're less likely to trip over it (the reflective threads in the rope don't help so much during the day).

[Son of a Beach]

note that the discussion of mattress faults, returns and replacements has been split off to a new topic.