Thermarest places export controls on moontrail

[photohiker]

Hi.

I have de-lurked to bring some frustrating news. (well I hope it's news, I haven't seen this mentioned before) I'm in the process of buying some gear, I've mostly hired in the past, but that has gotten annoying. Anyway, posts here and on BPL have been most helpful.

The new thermarest Neo Air looks very promising for the sort of places I go, so I decided to spend the readies and try one. Paddy Pallin: $360, Moontrail: $US149.95

I ordered one from Moontrail, but a day or so later an email arrived saying that the manufacturer has recently stopped them from shipping outside the US. Same manufacturer supplies MSR, Therm-A-Rest, SealLine, Platypus, and Tracks so they are all out. Bummer. Luckily, Moontrail was happy to redirect the delivery to another US supplier that is about to ship me some gear, so situation has been averted. This is pretty good of them, as many suppliers won't ship to any address but the CC billing address.

It'll take a few weeks to get here, will report back when I've had a chance to use it. Also have a tarptent Scarp1 on the way, I've been waiting and waiting for someone, anyone (Franco?) to post a real-life review, but given up waiting and plonked down the cash. I really like the Atko, but the Scarp promises a little more useful space and flexibility with the twin vestibules and higher ceiling. I'm in SA, so even if it doesn't turn out to be a great Tassie Winter tent, I'll get a lot of use from it on the mainland.

Michael

[Darren]

G'Day
A way you might be able to get around this cascade issue is use a fowarding company. Try http://www.forwardit.us/index.php?targe ... e_id=about
Also good for companies that dont ship to Aus
Hope that helps
Darren

PS. let me know how the scarp goes. This is probably going to be my new tent.

[Franco]

Hi
Unfortunately I have missed out on the planned Easter 7 day walk due to some communication breakdown. I should be testing it in the snow in a few weeks.
In the meantime Chris Townsend has published his (very favourable) review on it in the June TGO issue.
He mentioned sometime ago that he would do one for BackpakingLight as well, so I will let you know when it's up.
Chris has many years of testing under his belt so his opinion is more relevant than my own (very biased..) view of Tarptents, but the Scarp is something...
http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/tgodigitaldemo/
you can have a look at the Nov edition for free there...

Franco

[Ent]

YContents removed by poster

[Franco]

Having just spent $55 US in postage to get a pair of $80 overboots I can sympathise with the above comments. There is a distributor for that brand here however they don't stock the ones I wanted.
As a side comment, many of my customers over the years thought that I owned the shop I worked in and when told that it was not the case the usually asked why I did not have my own. I always replyed that it was "because" I knew the business (photo trade) that I would not want to invest in it..
Same for outdoor gear , if I had the money to start my own , I wouldn't ...
Franco

[Darren]

G'Day
I have told this story many times. I bought my first Macac amp from mooontrail America delivered to my door about 100 bucks cheaper than I could buy it from Paddy Palin.
So here we have a New Zealand company and a pack that was made in Asia gone to America then back to my house, cheaper than buying it from Sydney, Not to mention the 4 hour drive and $30 parking.
Buying local is great but someone is ripping us off.
I have since bought a second amp from the states
Darren

[photohiker]

I agree with all of the above.

I really don't mind paying a few bucks more to support the local retailer, and I do it whenever I can, but cases like this where the difference in the sticker price of the mattress is about $160, it's clear that something is wrong with the distribution chain. Don't forget that when we buy over the web we are usually buying from a retailer in the US, not a wholesaler or direct from the manufacturer. The Aussie distributor buys direct from the manufacturer at factory door prices often as much as 50% of what the local US retailers buy at before they mark them up and sell to us online. My guess is that there is a primary distributor or agent in Australia who does very nicely thank you very much while all of his customers pay nearly double to support the local bloke.

Same as the book industry. In a previous life, we used to buy professional books retail out of the states and be able to undercut the 'official' distributor by at least 30% after we paid the freight and put a healthy margin on them.

If it makes you feel better, Japan is even worse in this regard than Australia.

What makes this annoying is that when the grey imports start to impact the local market, instead of fixing the problem the manufacturer attempts to shut down the grey market. This is what has happened at Moontrail. That's dumb.

So anyway, yes I will post a review when both the Neo Air and Scarp turn up, and I've had a chance to test them.

Michael

[Darren]

Perhaps our resident Macpac representitive could help solve my conundrum???

[Franco]

Maybe this is a way of looking at the problem.
Say that a pack will cost a shop $50 and is sold at $100 .
Also lets assume that at $100 you sell two per week. That is $100 gross profit
Now lets price that pack at $70. Will I sell 5 packs every week at $70 compared to 2 packs at $100 ?
In the photo industry when I started (about 30 years ago) we used to sell SLRs at 50% mark up, about 30% during the sales periods.
Now the leading shops sell them for between 5 and 10% on invoice cost. (that is mark up, not profit margin, IE buy for $1000 sell for $1050)
(wholesalers do offer rebates but you need pretty high turnovers and prompt payments, hence the smaller shops cannot compete)
Note that there are less specialist photo retailers now then 30 years ago however a lot more cameras are sold now compared to then.
Franco

[Tony]

I also like to support our local outdoor shops but I find it very hard to justify paying $260 for a pack that I can get for A$102 in the US (delivered to a US address), this was what happened with my Golite Jam2 pack. I have since found out that the shops pay $130 for Jam2 pack with a recommended retail of 100% markup to $260 and I understand on some items, the markup is even more, sometimes in the hundreds of %.

I get quite angry when I see some of the Australian prices compared to the US and I think the Australian distributors are not doing themselves any favours, I think they are digging a big hole for themselves as every year I am hearing of more and more people that purchase their gear overseas.

Tony

[Ent]

Contents removed by poster

[blacksheep]

Perhaps our resident Macpac representitive could help solve my conundrum???

...enter-stage right....
what's the conundrum Darren? Higher prices are generally that way because the supply chain is too long. the more people that want a cut on the way through, the more pumped up the prices become. When Macpac opened our own stores you saw the same products up to $100 less than stores like paddys were selling them for- that was Paddy's margin taken out of the equation.
Anothet issue we do have here though that affects prices are some higher duty rates on imported products. They are higher than duties in the US, adds about 10%...
If you see someone sellin an AMP pack cheaper than we have them in our store then it would be old stock that would be selling at or below cost....

ps- re: the petrol/parking....you do know we mail order too, don't you?

[Darren]

G'Day Blacksheep
Thanks for the reply
My main query was the distance my pack had travelled prior to it reaching me, ie to the US and back. That’s a lot of shipping to still be cheaper. Now i would have thought there were similar supply links to an American store as an Australian store as well. All this took place before you mail order was set up.
Don’t get me wrong i love my Macpac gear. I have 2 sleeping bags, 2 packs, 3 fleeces and 2 beanies. My last purchase was 2 weeks ago (mail order).
I just think some Australian retailers are charging what they think they can get for gear not what its worth, then they cry when we go around them. Then things like import bans just puss(a bit of kiwi for you ) us even more.
As mentioned if you have a look at some of the more boutique gear like golite the Australian price is Phenomenal. If Australian retailers work with us instead of against us I’m sure they will re develop a support base and increase sales.
Darren
PS
Don’t let the light gear train pass you by

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[blacksheep]

Top rant Brett. I thoroughly agree.

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[blacksheep]

I think my head will hurt if I keep searching for the true many here...a bit of hand holding required please?

[corvus]

Feed back from Aus companies,I had a problem with a top of the range WE backpack contacted the STS the distributor who in turn forwarded my concern to the owner founder of WE who went to great lengths to resolve the problem "thank you Ian".
So there are "local" Distributors who do care and are willing to help (be interested to see the Quagmire gaiter outcome) from this same Distributor.
c

[Ent]

Contents removed by posters

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[Darren]

G'Day Corvus
Your support of WE is just what im talking about. By providing good service at a reasonable price they now have your respect and support and now you are passing your experiences on to people you know. This hopefully will generate business for them. By blacksheep making himself available on forums like this Macpac will be the same. I imagine in the pre global world (pre 90's) pp was held in the same regard. Things will sort themselves out, some will end up fashion labels and some will be regarded as good equipment and the net may be part of this.
Darren

[blacksheep]

wow Brett, are you the guy that writes the cryptic crosswords for the Age? that meaning was well buried...

[corvus]

wow Brett, are you the guy that writes the cryptic crosswords for the Age? that meaning was well buried...

Gday blacksheep
Still waiting re my query as to to the stated weight of the "Stellar" on your website(sent as PM to you to avoid open forum) and the actual weight, when is your website is going to be up dated it is over a month or more since I asked the question.
No excuse websites should be as update as yesterday so give your webmaster the sack or a swift kupta and keep us punters UPTD.
c

[antipodean]

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Thermarest-Neo- ... 1|294%3A50

[blacksheep]

wow Brett, are you the guy that writes the cryptic crosswords for the Age? that meaning was well buried...

Gday blacksheep
Still waiting re my query as to to the stated weight of the "Stellar" on your website(sent as PM to you to avoid open forum) and the actual weight, when is your website is going to be up dated it is over a month or more since I asked the question.
No excuse websites should be as update as yesterday so give your webmaster the sack or a swift kupta and keep us punters UPTD.
c

not quite a month...just over 2 flu filled weeks ago, however I can answer one part of your question now...short answer is the wbsite is frustrating. the content management is still not resolved (clearly). In changing the website from being a brand and product site to one which also facilitates selling we have hit so many glitches. we have issues with 2 styles of sku codes (for EU and for NZ/AU) and 3 levels of price fields (rrp, the 10% off MWC price and any sale or clearance pricing) and content being pulled from a POS system that isn't usually used this way...anyhoo... I have asked the web team to prioritise the on-line sales function, then the uploading of the new product images/info and then purge old product...
The Stellar is not continuing, we have a new ligtweight 2 person tent due out September/October.
but last delievry was with UV30 fly fabric, and I am told the specs on line are correct for that tent.

[Nuts]

I can relate to the frustrations.... we looked at online sales, coupled with how many difficulties there were in just launching a site, didn't need the drama's for now.
Thermarest's 'neo'- perhaps to 'cold' for year round?

[photohiker]

Thermarest's 'neo'- perhaps to 'cold' for year round?

Depends I guess.

R Ratings according to Moontrail

Neo-Air: 2.5

ProLite: 2.2
ProLite 3: 2.3
ProLite 3: 3.0 (womens)
ProLite 4: 3.2
ProLite 4: 4.1 (womens)
Downmat 7: 5.9

Compared to the hire gear I've used in the past, I expect it to be more comfortable and probably as good or better insulation wise. Packed size and weight are great. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating of course.

Early reports seem to suggest it will be fine for at least 3 seasons as long as it holds air. There have been some reports of leaky examples from the factory...

Michael

[corvus]

Gday blacksheep
Still waiting re my query as to to the stated weight of the "Stellar" on your website(sent as PM to you to avoid open forum) and the actual weight, when is your website is going to be up dated it is over a month or more since I asked the question.
No excuse websites should be as update as yesterday so give your webmaster the sack or a swift kupta and keep us punters UPTD.
c

not quite a month...just over 2 flu filled weeks ago,.[/quote]
bs my initial comment about your Website being out of date(non Stellar ) was OVER 4 weeks ago but I do accept your answer however you are a bit "dingle bum motors " in having an on line shop in these times that is just, not "on line" and up to date IMHO.
corvus