Rehabilitating an old sleeping bag

[Moondog55]

I just received an old sleeping bag in a PIF forward from Chris.
I was going to cut it down to make a kids bag for the tadpole but as I messaged Chris and told her; it is far too good for that.
I can actually see exactly what has happened to this bag over the years as the same thing happened with my old ME Redline winter bag
The baffles in this era were cut short of the edges of the bag and the down has migrated from the top few baffles to the bottom few baffles leading to a bag that is over stuffed at the foot and massively under-filled around the torso.
It is in the bath at the moment being soaked in Nikwax "Downwash" as tomorrow will be 42C+ and an excellent drying day
Rehabilitating this bag will give me a much needed spare for the car camping kit
So the question is do I move the down around after it drys or do I go and buy some more down and top it up?

[Supertramp]

Massage the down from the bottom to the top?
If it got down there, it means it can be moved back up.

[Moondog55]

Massage the down from the bottom to the top?
If it got down there, it means it can be moved back up.

My first thought
My second thought was not to use down to top it up with but to see if Thermoball was available; I've just messaged TierGear and getting them to look for me

[undercling-mike]

Do you need it to be warmer than it was originally? I'd say massage the down back into position and see how you go from there.

[Moondog55]

Need? No
Want? Maybe
All of these older UK bags have a similar shape and fill so I'm guessing 700 to 800 grams of 550 down and my memory of them is that they were considered a fine bag for a Scottish winter, damn those old Scottish ice climbers were tough. That's when I bought my Redline as the bag I had then while super light wasn't warm enough. Redline was an oversized bag and had 900 grams of down in it
When It dries and I massage the down around I'll know then

[Moondog55]

Still only 23C here and the washed bag is still sodden even tho it had all night in a basket draining
I couldn't get any Downproof in time to do the Nikwax thing unfortunately

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07:17 and 18C

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10:20 and 23C

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[Moondog55]

Sleeping bag is still sopping wet
The down jacket that was Nikwax treated is however as dry as a bone
Still not hot here yet only 37C

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First turn 13:50 and 37C

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Hours and hours still to go

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[Moondog55]

Second turn 15:45 and 44C

One of the reasons i am keeping such a record is to demonstrate for those who have never washed a sleeping bag is the time needed for drying
Tomorrow it will go the the local laundromat and I'll spend $1- or more dollars in the big industrial tumble dryer they have there, on LOW

Imagine getting your only defense against the cold getting this wet
Two ways to deal with this problem make sure you never get your sleeping bag soaked wet and use Hyperdry down or use Nikwax and make sure that the sleeping bag never gets soaking wet
A quarter kilo drybag looks light compared to the weight of a sodden dry bag

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15:45 and 44C Still hours and hours to go

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[stry]

Massage the down from the bottom to the top?
If it got down there, it means it can be moved back up.

My first thought
My second thought was not to use down to top it up with but to see if Thermoball was available; I've just messaged TierGear and getting them to look for me

That second thought is obscene . Down gets topped up with down !

[Moondog55]

I am however intrigued by the possibilities of mixing down and Thermoball
Simons down is probably of too high a quality If I do decide to top it up it will be with a cheaper less lofty product from Feather Factory although that isn't Hyperdry the bag needs to be Nikwaxed anyway
Still 44 here but the change is coming and the temperature looks set to drop 20 degrees in the next half hour

[Strider]

What is the Nikwax you use MD? Spray on or wash in?

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[Moondog55]

No time for the last picture
The heavens opened as the squall went past even tho it's still hot

[Moondog55]

Next morning SB is still wet, very wet
As this is the case I ordered and got put in an express envelope a bottle of Nikwax from VAST outdoors in Moorabin
Not one retailer in the whole of the greater Geelong[ including the Surf Coast] area has any Downproof in stock

[Moondog55]

Still drying out

[Aidan]

I've washed a few bags in my time.
I've always succumbed and taken them to the local laundromat to put into their "spinner".
I took note of the fact that last time I was at the YMCA at Perth behind the Royal Hospital, that their "laundries" (on each floor) contain a spinner.
As they also have baths, I don't have to run the risk the ire of my landlady due to of either of my sleeping bags discolouring the bath, from their dye,
The dye running isn't my worry but hers and I don't won't to run the risk of her few moments of being right to be that one.

[Moondog55]

I would have taken mine to the laundromat but I was expecting the Nikwax to arrive on Friday

[Moondog55]

I now just need the information from OSA about exactly how much Nikwax I need to use to treat 750 grams of down. There being no point in adding more than is needed and then rinsing off the excess

[Moondog55]

Steve from OSA brands just called me, it is 100ml of Nikwax to do 750 grams of down with no left-overs, 135mls per kilo of down or 13.5 mls per 100 grams
Hoping this information is of assistance to anybody else wanting to use Nikwax Downproof with no wastage

[Chris]

Watching progress of my old friend with great interest
Good luck Ted!

[Moondog55]

Well it got treated with Nikwax this AM and just now 18:00 I am about to take it off the line and put $20- in the slot at the laundromat up the street

[Moondog55]

Well the foot end is in wonderful condition and puffed up very high even if a little damp still but the head end is clumped up and still wet. Experience tells me 2 things, I didn't use enough soap and even tho it was rinsed 3 times it wasn't rinsed clean enough. Dirty down clumps up and dries slowly
The position of the wet clumped down makes sense, even when you use a liner the sweatiest greasiest part of our bodies tends to be the head and hair and these oils can and do migrate though a liner and contaminate the fill.
Dry in the house overnight and back to the laundry tomorrow with my last $5- in coin
If this doesn't work then into the front loader with a double dose of dishwashing liquid

[Moondog55]

OK So back to the laundromat and a front loader with a double dose of enzyme detergent The damp bag stinks and to me that has always been a tell tale sign of not washing and rinsing properly

[stry]

Watching with interest.

Stinky down can be sign of bad things for the down.

I've washed only a couple of down bags and never had the problems that are persecuting you. I also paid to have one washed and that was worth it.

Also had one saturated in the bush as thoroughly as if submersed in a bath tub (evil storm, smashed tent), and to our pleasant surprise, it seemed to dry completely in one sunny, windy day hanging over guy ropes and bushes.

[Strider]

Won't enzyme detergent strip all the natural oils from the down?

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[Moondog55]

Won't enzyme detergent strip all the natural oils from the down?

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Yes it will strip a lot but those will be replaced with the Nikwax so the end result will be better

Slow drying down is a sign of a high feather ratio in my experience and given the age of this bag that is only to be expected 30 years ago getting even 85% down was a good achievement with factory down

[Moondog55]

Well it is now clean an dry and a lot of loft recovered
I'm not sure that I would be able to use if for myself as the drying process has ripped out a full baffle
That is due I am sure to a shortcut in the sewing process as exactly the same thing happened with my old ME Redline, the edges of the baffles strip were never turned and the stitches ran close to the cut edge so while the stitches are strong they will have ripped through the edge of the nylon strip used as the baffle
I'll see what happened when we cut it down by 700mm to give the cold weather kids bag we were after
Having spent about $55- I think the commercial cost for a clean is actually reasonable

[undercling-mike]

It's too bad that it didn't work out so well in the end but it sounds like cutting it down for a kids bag was the original plan anyway.

Quite eye opening on the washing process, sounds like there are some pitfalls and the cost was quite high. What would you do differently if you were to do another one? Perhaps agitate more vigorously with the initial downwash since it sounds like the down wasn't fully clean from this initial step?

[Moondog55]

Cost was reasonably high because I needed to rinse very well , the local has big machines but they have the "Eco" wash and rinse so I needed to spend $7- twice to get all the extra soap out, then I needed to spend another $7- to rinse out the Nikwax
Yes the original intention was to cut down to suit a youngster and it will do that fine, with some nice clean down to spare too
Where I used to live the local place had a dedicated "Doona" machine and 7 years ago that cost $12- so the cost is comparable
The initial mistake I made was probably not rinsing a couple of more times to get all the soap out and simply not using enough soap.
Still if you have a $500- sleeping bag spending $35- every 3 or 4 years to extend the working life to 30+ years is a good investment.
My Ultra bags have each been washed a few times with no problems despite the seeming fragility of the fabric [ the extra $29- was for the Nikwax and the tumble dryer] a newer bag with better down would dry much faster and if already Hyperdry down would dry very very fast and not need the Nikwax

[slparker]

My sleeping bag is 23 years old and never been washed, in my defence I have used a sleeping sheet every time....

Moondog's post makes me never want to get it wet...

[Orion]

My sleeping bag is 23 years old and never been washed, in my defence I have used a sleeping sheet every time....

Age isn't the primary criteria. Time in use, conditions, exposure to UV, etc. -- that's what matters.

My first sleeping bag was disintegrating after 23 years. It had lost much of its loft. And the shell could be pulled apart by hand. It wasn't a cheap bag but it saw a lot of use.

Moondog's post makes me never want to get it wet...

There is a risk of baffle damage when a bag is loaded with wet, heavy down. One must take care when transporting it like that. I usually squeeze out as much water as possible by hand and then roll it up into a tight ball. Then it goes into the spinner, then the dryer. After a few hours it's temporarily bone dry.

Hanging a bag up wet seems like a bad idea. That said, it's more likely that Moondog's bag had weak baffles to start with.