My last attempt to make things clear for you Brett
Brett wrote: blacksheep wrote:Brett, it is amazing to me that you don't understand the country a product is sewn in has zero influence on fit. They don't choose our colours either. And music from my ipod isn't in Mandarin. A size 45 shoe made in china fits like a size 45 shoe made in italy if the same last is used.
Sizing is controlled by patterns and spec, not contracted sewing companies. MD's made a loss on their prevoius model, they now are profitable. Their products fit more people better. Not you, not me, but more of their market.
Believe it or not I do. It means that you have chosen a size range and ratios that likely fit the mode of the market average. Congratulations so has just about everyone else see Kathmandu, Mountain Design, etc. Country of manufacture does count as Chinese factories are optimised for large production runs so by definition the cheapest cost is the greatest volume which can be achieved by limited styles, colours, and sizing. If you happen to like the style and colour and fit within the chosen size range then life is great and given that you have likely selected the mode then many people should be happy.
A.do you suggest companies make products for the 10th percentile? or the 70th percentile? companies that don't meet their market fail. simple. You and I sound similar in build (maybe I'm a bit heavier). Kathmandu products (when I designed for them) were to fit the masses, and were generous and sized on a grade of 8cm, MD's needed to get a market share and many newer styles worked off the statistical average and were either on an 8cm or a 5cm grade (rather than what fit Rick or Kim the best). macpac are certainly the most "athletic" silhouette of the 3 overall- we get stockier customers complain that we are too elite focused in our sizing-same happened on the first run of arcteryx jackets- they only fit whippet thin climbers. second year on and the jackets we see today are much revised- but they can now service more customers..
B. You have no idea of my production run sizes, and production run size has zero to do with fit- whether i make 100 or 1000 jackets i want it to have the best fit. the volume based price breaks you speak of hardly apply to an outdoor brand- we do not have Wal-mart sized runs, we do not use Wal-mart sized factories. I can make runs of 50 pcs if I need.
Brett wrote:However, why if I take to garments from the same brand and lay them down then the older one has longer sleeves and narrower body? What I am saying is sizing has changed (maybe ten years ago) so once where clothes fitted they no longer do but that admission appears impossible to get. I am told that nothing has changed which is wrong. That is the honesty I would like to hear. I accept that you have chosen a size range but please accept that the fact that that is different to once what is was. What does this mean. If you are buying in a shop you buy or reject if the size is right no problems there. Mail order you just do not buy. What is you business? I think it is mail order is becoming part of it.
we have the same male and female fit models that Macpac have used for the last 6 years, and a record of their measuremnts. They are the lean side of the statistical average. The ease of a product depends on intended silhoutte or characteristic of the fabric, and whether it is a body /mid/outer layer. We fit all our samples/pre-production samples and production samples with our staff here. there are no fit issues in our current product range. Luckily, our staff are or target market- everyone here hikes/climbs/bikes/races. I am very comfortable with our process.
Brett wrote:Blacksheep, Corvus once lead the charge to get your site right and now I appear to be in the front line as vital sizing has even basic errors so how can we trust any technical information? As mentioned I was worked over by your Traverse pack indicating one harness but having another with a lower load carrying capacity. "Sorry, confusion happens but thanks for the money, please feel free to buy again" was then end result of my emails.
Actually, I have been leading the charge on our website. that is a different story with different challenges. You are in the frontline? .....ok...
Brett wrote: On tents check out Tarptent approach for the Scarp 1 see what they have done to explain what you are getting. The site uses 3D graphics to overcome the problem of interpreting floor area. This demonstrates Henry's (the owners) approach of giving the buyer the best chance to understand what they are getting. Ask a question and Henry is quick with the replies along with recommendation on when and more importantly when not to buy his tent. Petra Hilleberg is renown for doing much the same.
these guys don'yt have quite as many balls to keep in the air as we do, but credit to them for being able to keep their small range up to date in all their marketing comms- and it must be nice to be able to communicate so easily to the people behind the products...
Brett wrote:What I am saying is sizing is critical and if you are in the mail order business then quote all the dimension of your standard model. If it has short arms then fine, if it is related to an orang-utan then drop me a line. PS just make sure they are MM stands for millimetre not MacPac measurments
Now shoe size. Um? I once did see a box with four sizes quoted, UK, US, European and Korean/Japanese. From memory 12, 13, 47, and 48 were the numbers mentioned. Oh, I forgot country doesn' t make a difference
yes, the graphic designer wrote mm's instead of cm's on our website. changed as soon is was pointed out.
and your shoe example is again suggesting to me you don't understand sizing. on one hand you are trying to say where they are made makes a difference to how it is sized...but shoes are made fit patterns and fitted to a last. different lasts are used for different brands and also for different markets to fit the target consumer. While US and UK are almost on the exacvt scale, just off-set one size, the others work on a different grading increment. And the last shape varies enourmously depending on whether the product is intended to fit a wide foot, a narrow foot etc. this is unrelated to where the shoe is constructed- it is related only to how it is intended to fit. same as garments.
Brett wrote: Cheers Brett
PS what about a special deal for the original poster of this thread as they are still after a jacket to replace the one that was stolen
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
well if they go to the macpac website they will see our sale starts tomorrow, and eVent jackets are on sale, but will our stuff fit them? moldyform never said if he was Chinese
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