gear list for mountain marathon, runner dead, hypothermia

[wayno]

suspected hypothermia at this stage,
severe weather reported.
https://gearjunkie.com/ultra-fiord-pata ... ypothermia

take a look at the gear list.
compulsory to have an insulated top. weighing at least 130gm..
suggested only to have a heavier insulated top. rainpants not compulsory. photos showing people fording a river at leas waist deep..

http://www.ultrafiord.com/rules/#Article_08

[ribuck]

There's an inherent tension in competitive endurance events between winning and increasing your safety margin.

With bushwalking, the pleasure comes from the activity itself and not from 'winning', so the temptation to under-equip is not so strong.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I think ultras in terrain such as this is a big problem. The ultra trail marathon my wife did was done in a location where they had volunteer stations setup every 5-10km providing food, but also with medical assistance available.

Running through inhospitable mountains affords little ability to have checkpoints with assistance if required.

[slparker]

Probably should wait for the coroner's report before leaping to conclusions.

the guy may have had a heart attack (not unknown in 57 year old men) and subsequently succumbed to hypothermia. It is not necessary a failure of gear but a failure of event safety and risk management.

if we all walked with sufficient gear to cover every eventuality we would never go anywhere; although i take wayno's point - it does seem that it is insufficient gear, certainly for a casualty, but probably sufficient for a running person even in very inclement weather.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Yeah that's a good point slparker. It says suspected hypothermia, but could have been anything.

[slparker]

Yeah that's a good point slparker. It says suspected hypothermia, but could have been anything.

it does say that the weather was 'exceptionally hostile' but no mention of what the competitor was actually wearing or carrying for this stage of the event.

[GPSGuided]

Typically multi factorial. The applied external physical and psychological stressors have an impact on the physical functioning. So can never just excuse it as an unrelated event. Just being out in the hostile environment can be sufficient trigger, irrespective of the clothing etc. But we will wait and see for more facts.


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[wayno]

yes, we need to wait for more information. severe weather itself may have stressed him in a number of ways.
but it's struck me how minimal mountain runners tend to be with clothes.. as mentioned, racers prioritise speed and want to carry as little gear as they feel they can get away with in order to run faster. In severe weather its a lot harder to effect a rescue in time to save someone in trouble. usually when runners in an event become hypothermic the event organisers are able to organise a rescue in time to stop things deteriorating.

[Moondog55]

I get what you are saying Wayno but it is a higher risk sport and I assume all the entrants accept those risks and make their own judgment on whether reasonable safety or winning are the main considerations; also personal experience tells me that exhaustion can sometimes hit without much warning and at that point, hypothermia or not, personal judgement gets cloudy

[wayno]

I get what you are saying Wayno but it is a higher risk sport and I assume all the entrants accept those risks and make their own judgment on whether reasonable safety or winning are the main considerations; also personal experience tells me that exhaustion can sometimes hit without much warning and at that point, hypothermia or not, personal judgement gets cloudy

high risk it may be but I dont think people expect someone to die unless they have a pre existing heart problem

[Gadgetgeek]

So many things are possible in a situation like this. Ultimately its a sport where each person needs to weigh the risks, and while race organizers do have some need to do at least a little bit, they can only do so much, and each participant needs to decide if that's enough to fit into their risk matrix.

[GPSGuided]

The question that obviously needs to be asked, what's the organiser's plan wrt the adverse weather? Surprised the event still went ahead. Or is it already defined to be an extreme event that no weather will stop the event. Normally there's a risk management plan.

[drakkar]

Things like this typically come out with multiple factors that often give a bit of chicken or egg scenario. Rarely one direct cause.

His gear was possibly ok for a survival situation. Add in an injury, fatigue, or similar. Couple of bad decisions as a result.

Hopefully it doesn't make us even more risk averse.

RIP.

[zac150]

Personally I see no difference in planning for my races and planning for my weekend adventures; I choose what I take, yes there are gear lists and I use these as a guide but I still take responsibility for my choices; that said it is easier as I am not at the front of the pack.

Having said that I think organisers (and I am not saying in this instance they have not) should consider the event route, access to competitors, number of competitors and support staff (aid stations) when setting minimum gear lists.

I know of a major triathlon that finishes at kosci and I have often wondered what the precautions are in this event. After a cold swim and a long ride kosci is a very exposed spit to finish a tri and if people are on the edge it wouldn't take a lot for them to drop especially if weather was bad.

[wayno]

patagonia has a reputation for severe weather, any hint of bad weather and i'd be exceeding the recommended list for clothing. waterproof pants as well as jacket, insulation layer for the legs. survival bag. extra insulated top.

[slparker]

I agree wayno, that extra gear would be sensibly required in that climate. But perhaps he had all that extra equipment and still died.

We cannot assume that the runner was unprepared just because he died. We just know that he died and it appears it was from hypothermia, which is still possible with a pack full of windproofs and insulation - if there are other factors at play.

[wayno]

update here on the original story. two others needed rescuing

http://www.gearinstitute.com/gear-news/ ... -patagonia

[slparker]

http://trailrunnermag.com/races/ultras/ ... -patagonia

it appears that running in blizzards may not be the best idea...

[wayno]

http://trailrunnermag.com/races/ultras/2125-runner-dies-during-ultra-fiord-100-in-patagonia

it appears that running in blizzards may not be the best idea...

Patagonia is notorious for extremely bad weather..
Alan Arnette who has done the seven summits making several attempts at everest said Aconcagua was colder than anywhere else he's been and its nearly 2000m lower than everest

[GPSGuided]

Sad that he demised b/n two check points that was just 3 miles apart.

[wayno]

mentioned an accident, so may have been imobilised. i'im waiting to see if more detailed information is released. the first report claimed hypothermia.... an accident could have contributed to the onset of hypothermia or exacerbated it

[Supertramp]

Post removed by admin

[Giddy_up]

The weather sounds horrendous, one could perish in those conditions with a full winter kit!!


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[GPSGuided]

Quote is of a removed post, edited by admin.

Isn't that just what Wayno tried to point out, that people starts to take chances once their competitive edge comes in.

The weather sounds horrendous, one could perish in those conditions with a full winter kit!!

This is where the organizers' liability comes in.

Would a PLB help the competitor? I note in the recommended gear list for the 100miles competitors, it suggested a mobile phone (with 2 areas of reduced coverage) but no PLB. Organizers use VHF radio for their official comms. All 'weighty' gears that competitors are likely to opt out.

[Giddy_up]

Yes, a PLB would have saved that mans life. I never thought of them as a tool for adventure racers as I always assumed they would have multiple checkpoints and regular physician checks before heading on to the next checkpoint.

I do wonder how someone could perish between two checkpoints that close together.


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[Gadgetgeek]

snow. Its that simple, you can have really weird visibility in snow, and sounds can be really muffled. Do you keep a full SAR team at each checkpoint and send them looking when a competitor is a little behind time? Others might have run right past him without realizing and being able to raise the alarm. In normal conditions this wouldn't happen. Runner sees someone go down, knows the next checkpoint is a mile and a half away, they can keep going for help. I've been in snow that didn't seem that bad, until it was far to late to change plans. Its a nasty thing.

[Giddy_up]

snow. Its that simple, you can have really weird visibility in snow, and sounds can be really muffled. Do you keep a full SAR team at each checkpoint and send them looking when a competitor is a little behind time? Others might have run right past him without realizing and being able to raise the alarm. In normal conditions this wouldn't happen. Runner sees someone go down, knows the next checkpoint is a mile and a half away, they can keep going for help. I've been in snow that didn't seem that bad, until it was far to late to change plans. Its a nasty thing.

Yep that's a given but these guys are elite athletes from the description. I would have thought that someone who can run 3 miles in 15 minutes or so doesn't appear at the next check point for 3 hours would be cause for concern and may create some form of response. I am just thinking out aloud here.

[GPSGuided]

A bread crumb PLB would have been ideal for these courses ie. SPOT and InReach. Would have allowed the support team to track the progress of each across hostile terrains. In a way, it should have been mandatory given how much money these athletes are willing to cough up to participate in these extreme events.

[Gadgetgeek]

Giddy-up, I'm not disagreeing with you, but how many people are going to be at every checkpoint? In those conditions you can't really send solo or even pairs of rescuers to check the trail without putting them in harms way. In an ideal world each trail leg would have a crew patrol it, but how realistic is that? And without knowing how they are tracking people through each checkpoint, and how the checkpoints communicate, its hard to say what went wrong. I know how I would set that up, but it would involve a lot of comms gear, and people.

[wayno]

adventure races make satellite tracking beacons compulsory.. they double as PLB's in emergencies..