Sizing what does it mean

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[Son of a Beach]

There's no doubt that standard sizes change over time. People I know who've studied fashion at TAFE are formally taught that.

I guess relative proportions of elements of a garment are likely to change over time as well, depending on marketing decisions (ie, ratio of leg length to waist width, or arm length to chest circumference).

I'm not convinced that moving manufacturing offshore has caused any particular size changes, however, you've got a reasonable argument that some of these size changes may have occurred at about the same time as the offshore shift for some brands. So if this has happened, I'd go so far as to say that it coincided with the timing of moving offshore, but I would not go so far as to say these two changes have a cause/effect relationship.

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[photohiker]

I think the china side of the discussion has two facets to it.

1) China has a supply of cheap labour. Companies can utilise that labour to make their existing designs (yes, like blacksheep's mob) in their specified sizes. One hopes that QC is good or becomes good after a few stuff-ups where they realise the production has to be checked or things will go awry. I think we have all seen the result of that in the not so distant past. Largely behind us I think.

2) China has it's own breed of entrepreneurs with access to factory capacity churning out a lot of very cheap stuff. Some western marketers pick this stuff up for bargain prices and dump it on the unsuspecting public. We are generally not talking about blacksheep or any company of that calibre here. Some of this gear is absolutely fine and quite probably better than name brand gear.

For instance, in Oct 2006 we picked up a pair of generic hiking style runners in Switzerland for one of our kids (he's 17 now). Those runners are branded 'Panther' and have been in constant use since. When I say 'use' I mean totally 'hammered' by an active teenager. Out of interest, I picked them up to have a close look at them this morning, and I am amazed to report that they are showing virtually no sign of wear on either the soles or the uppers. We paid about AU $20 for them.

The problem with that is, if we tried to buy another pair the chances are that they have changed their name and quality if we could even find them. If they had fallen apart there would be no backup perhaps apart from the store we actually bought them from. Thats just the way it is. If you buy a 'quality' brand, there is more that you are buying than how the product is made, you are supporting the employment of a bunch of people whose job it is to make sure the right products at the right quality and etc are there for you to select from yesterday, today and tomorrow, and to be there when there is a problem with those products.

So TCP, see if you can find some 'Panthers' to replace your Garmonts

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[the_camera_poser]

I might try some Rossi's this time.

[corvus]

[quote="photohiker"]I think the china side of the discussion has two facets to it.

photohiker,
You are correct every bit of "Rivers " stuff I own is good,(except for so called hike socks that were crap) well made, fits , was inexpensive and all came from the Clearance Store and made in China !! however I suspect that the Rivers folk specify a minimum quality and I admit their shoes /boots dont have a removable foot bed however I only pay around $40.00 for my runners which is 10cents per day which suits my budget
So I believe there are horses for courses.
c
must contact Rivers for a promo discount

[the_camera_poser]

Yeah- Rivers gets the nod from me- pretty decent stuff.

30 years ago everyone (the smart ones at least) was buying japanese cars. Now it's korean cars. Soon it'll be chinese cars. Build a better mousetrap (cheaper), and the world knocks at your door.

The problem with not buying imported stuff is the cost-effectiveness. I mean, I am about to buy THREE Marmot 800 loft sleeping bags (that's the flavour of the month) for only slightly more than I can buy two comparable bags made by an Australian or NZ company. Three bags- 1200 Aus including shipping. Mont or One Planet equivalent- well over $2000.

It's a global economy, and we have to stay competitive. I'll always buy local, unless I can't help it. In this case, I can't help it. I can buy the Marmot bags and go bushwalking this year, or I can save up and maybe afford Aussie ones next year. Seems a bit silly to be wasting a year because of patriotism.

[corvus]

t_c_p,
I agree go for what saves you money or "conscience" I bought my perfect( for me) Tundra Pure Dry -5 by Warmth Unlimited sleeping bag from the UK ,made in Poland filled with "ethical down" not available retail in OZ more is the pity.
In today's money you could probably land three for around $1500.00 with a total weight of less than 3kg ,water resistant shell super loft and well made .
c

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[Nuts]

Isnt someone stocking zamberlan locally? I found that the us sizing in general was 1 size down from ours, but understood that to be the case across the board? If they look like fitting i'd suggest giving them a try (you can always send them back... on a slow boat?) Do they make any b'walking model larger sized?


Bag sizing, iv'e stuck with Marmot in recent years so dont have much other experience. Just for the benefit of the tape( ) I do think that people get a bit carried away with the figures for weight. It always comes at a cost... As others have mentioned a bag of 'X' size with 'Y' quality down fill rating will weigh 'Z'.... there is very little else that is not going to = a lighter shell or reduced size or just b/s on the part of the maufacturer and their temperature rating claims.. It really is close to being that simple.. Sorting through where the compromises are is the technical part, but then by choosing a leading manufacturer (that subjects there bags to ratings (and no it doesnt really matter which system (see 'weight' and read 'warmth')), how much you want to spend and (most importantly) what colours they offer, you have 3 equally important criteria

(I wonder just how many people go through the exercise of buying those ridiculously light weight/low temp rated bags from ebay and then try to convince themselves that it is keeping them warm as they shiver through the first midsummer night squeezed into a their new 'burrito' )

[Jellybean]

Zamberland and sizing anyone with experience in how they stackup against say against the Scarpa sizing?

As usual the issue of sizing is a vexing issue with no direct comparison but at least Zamberland give specifications on foot length.

Hi Brett,

I can't answer your question directly but can provide some advice on Zamberlan boots ...

I've had a pair of full leather Zamberlans (Womens Trek Lite) for 9 years - they took 5 - 6 weeks (I guess pretty normal for leather) to break in but have been awesome boots ever since (comfortable, provide great protection, take a bit of punishment, no blisters ever - sock combo helps there too I guess) and have been all over Australia/the world as high as 5000m (double/plastic boots above there).

Until 18 months ago I'd always used Zamberlan's Hydrobloc to waterproof them (good stuff!) but when I ran out I couldn't find any anywhere and used Snowseal instead - have been suffering "hot feet syndrome" (for want of a better term) ever since which is darned uncomfortable on a multi-day hike.

As a result of this and feeling the need to experiment I sussed out a pair of Zamberlan synthetic boots (womens, can't remember the name) - same size as my old leather Zamberlans. They didn't come close to fitting well and I sent them back. I finished up with a pair of Asolo FSN 70 GTX which I'm really happy with so far. (They haven't been in anywhere near the conditions I subjected the Zamberlans to - yet).

I had a similar problem with some Keen hiking shoes - which I use on day hikes (day pack only) in more forgiving terrain (extra ankle support not required). After some friends raved about the Keen Targhee II I tried some (US womens size 10), along with the Keen Voyageur (same size) - a very similar shoe that is just more ventilated and not waterproof. The Voyageur fit me perfectly but the Targhee (same size) were too short (and they seem to have exactly the same sort of toe box). (The Voyageurs are soo comfortable!! Great shock absorption, very well made, very stable and great grip).

The moral to the story - don't expect boots/shoes from the same company to have the same sizing and where possible, try before you buy (or at least ensure the price you're paying if buying online is substantially less than what you'd pay here to cover the cost of any need to swap sizes) My on-line boot/shoe purchases have been at half the cost of the boot/shoe here so that is well and truly covered.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

JB

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[Jellybean]

As mentioned US sizing is either one to two sizes smaller but even that is confusing as 48 should be 13 Uk and 14 US but it is called 13 US on the USA Zamberland website.

[/quote]

Hey Brett,

I've found that length of the boot/shoe (e.g., 26.5cm, 27cm - bigger in your case ) is a more reliable guide than size 13US, 14 UK etc. Length tends to be consistent across (and within) countries whereas UK/US sizes vary across countries (and even within) e.g., when looking for some US womens size 10 shoes I noticed that some were 26cm, some 26.5cm, some 27cm, etc. Knowing your shoe length should help you get an accurate fit (as least length wise).

Cheers,

JB