solid Tassie tent

[WildWoila]

I know there have been lots of tent discussions previously (I've read them!), but I'm hoping for a bit more specific information.

I am about to move to Hobart and need a 2-person tent that will be up to Tassie conditions (all-year-round). I would also want to be able to use it in NZ, and it would be nice if I could take it snow camping on the Main Range once I move back to the mainland. I generally use a tarp while bushwalking up here (around Canberra), but reckon that won't cut it down there ...

I've written up all the research I've done thus far on my blog:
http://wildwoila.blogspot.com/2009/09/tents.html

Initially I had thought I could get away with a good 3-season tent, such as the upcoming Macpac Macrolight or the Mont Moondance II. But upon further consideration I am starting to think that I will need something a bit more bombproof. Here is my shortlist:

• Terra Nova Superlite Quasar: seems too good to be true! Is it? Bit pricey.
• Macpac Minaret: I'm not convinced by tunnel tents, but this seems like it might do the job. Not heaps of room, but sufficient.
• Hilleberg Nallo 2: slopes down quite a lot towards foot. A bit squishy perhaps? Expensive.
• Hilleberg Nammatj 2: roomier than Nallo 2, but notably heavier. More expensive.
• Mountain Hardware Spire 2.1: seen some comments that it is small. True? Seems like a good tent on paper. Found one bad review by a Kiwi.
• Mont Bell Stellar Ridge: only seen this on iclimb.co.nz. Seems too insubstantial for a four-season tent.
• Exped Sirius Extreme II: looks like a good tunnel tent, but on the heavy side.

I could add the Wilderness Equipment First Arrow to the list, but I think it is too heavy. And the Second Arrow is too small for my liking.

Can anyone who has experience with any of these tents please tell me what they think? Will they meet my requirements? For some of these tents, I can't find many reviews on the web. Are there any tents I am missing?

Also, are there any dissenters from what appears to be the conventional wisdom that you need a 4-season tent in Tassie?

Thanks heaps!

[the_camera_poser]

Welcome to the forum!

I have a Hilleberg Nallo 4 GT- I used it for the first time this last week. It's a really exceptional tent, with a couple of little issues, but nothing that'd stop me from recommending it. For me, the big issues were condensation, space and weight, and the Hilleberg does very well in these areas. When properly set up it will easily accommodate my 6-foot frame.

The availability of the new mesh inner tent for some of the Hillebergs make them a no-brainer for me- two tents in one for an additional $180 US.

Make sure you can fit all of your sleeping mats into the footprint comfortably- when tent shopping I found that very few tents will fit sleeping mats for the number of occupants they reckon will fit. I bought the Nallo 4, and the Nallo 3 wouldn't fit three 20 inch Downmats.

A lot of folks seem to like Macpac products in here.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org and http://www.trailspace.com are good sources of review.

[Ent]

Hi

On Hilleberg you have two fabric types, the 1800 and 1200 range. Hilleberg generally produce two similar tents for each model type using the different fabric with around 1 to 2 kilograms increase in weight. The heavy fabric also gets 10.25mm poles verses the 9mm ones in the lighter fabric and bigger tent pegs. For Tassie the light weight material should be amply strong enough. The Nallo is made from the 1200 and is extremely light given the floor area covered. The Kaitum is worthwhile looking at if you are tall and require a tunnel tent with dual entrances. I have the 3 person version and it is an excellent tent at 3 kilograms with ample space for three adults and their packs. The cut-off height when choosing between the Nallo and the Kaitum is probably around 6'2".

Basically IMHO the Hilleberg tents are worth the money but they are very expensive compare to some of the alternative brands so worthwhile checking other brands out. A major hidden advantage is the availability of spare bits and pieces such as poles. If you hunt around on this site you will find getting spaces for some brands is near impossible or just too expensive to be worth it.

Cheers Brett

[ILUVSWTAS]

I do like my minaret

[Son of a Beach]

My brothers minaret has been excellent.

What is the issue with tunnel tents? They're all I've ever used and they are excellent in all conditions. I've never yet come across a complaint regarding them that I consider to be legitimate (for me and the way I use tents).

[ILUVSWTAS]

Agreed Nik!
Very good in bad weather for storage and cooking etc. and they arent overly heavy I wouldnt have said either

And i'd probably say yes to needing a 4season tent in Tas you can get 4 seasons at any time of the year, and gets very cold at times!

[Ent]

The tunnel tent offers one of the best space to weight ratios of any design with probably the traditional A style tent being a bit better. Only thing I can think of as a downside with tunnel tents is they rely on the pegs for strength so poor pegging and you can have problems also in strong winds you need a few pegs so probably a bit longer to put up. I have a dome as well and basically what you prefer unless you are camping a lot on surfaces that you can not get the pegs in or find suitable tie off points.

Cheers Brett

[WildWoila]

People seem to love the Hillebergs. However, it sounds like the Nallo 2 might be a bit small for regular two-person use. A lot of the reviews I've read seem to consider it as a roomy 1-person tent. Anyone care to contradict that? Sounds like I would need a Nallo 3. But a Kaitum 2, with its two vestibules would probably be fine.

Bit hard to tell when I can't go somewhere to check them out!

[WildWoila]

What is the issue with tunnel tents? They're all I've ever used and they are excellent in all conditions. I've never yet come across a complaint regarding them that I consider to be legitimate (for me and the way I use tents).

My issue with tunnel tents is pegging. My first tent was a Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight CD. It has a bunch of problems, but what is relevant is its tunnel design, and its need for good pegging. More often than not, the ground is hard, or stoney, or sandy, and it is hard to get good anchors for the tent. I had a disasterous night on a Pacific beach on the Chilean island of Chiloe, where a sudden wind came up and my pegs couldn't hold the tent into the sand. Up came the foot of the tent, and down went the tent! And a very bedraggled me resulted.

The other issue with tunnels tents is that they prefer to be pointed into the wind, which might not agree with the lay of the land. In any case, the wind is bound to change direction in the middle of the night!

That doesn't mean I can't be convinced otherwise. It's just my bias.

[Ent]

Can only speak on the Akto and Kaitum 3 and they are the biggest tents for the quoted size rating that I have stuck also with the ability to store the matching number of packs in the vestibule. I would be tempted by the Kaitum 2 but at 2.8 versus 3.1 (actual on my scales 3 KG) it is not worth the weight saving given the size advantage plus flexibility for an extra person.

The love of Hilleberg comes from things just been right and honestly given the parameters I can not think of much to change on their tents. Yes the Akto could do with taller ends and maybe a central end supports if you are a snow bunny but as for Kaitum can not think of any changes. You can use as few as four pegs if in a sheltered spot for both of them but more makes for a better night's sleep. The thing with Hilleberg tents is their light weight models are near perfect for Tassie being as strong as needed while still being at the lower end of the weight scale. Also you can fit the packed tent lengthways in the "standard" pack.

As for non tunnel designs the Allak looks good but I have not seen one and besides for the limited reasons for me to use a dome tent I can survive with my MD Kaon and save the rather impressive purchase cost. You would think Hilleberg would give a two tent person tent owner a discount to get a third tent but no such joy.

It would be good to see various brand tents pitched side by side to get an idea of the design considerations. This happened in the snow on a walk but I and most of us were too stuffed to do much a review. From what I gathered people were happy with their various choices. I noticed one or two packs outside their tents but was not sure if that was personal choice or size restrictions but for me the pack needs to be undercover and easily accessible while still rugged up in a sleeping bag.

Cheers Brett

[WildWoila]

As for non tunnel designs the Allak looks good but I have not seen one and besides for the limited reasons for me to use a dome tent I can survive with my MD Kaon and save the rather impressive purchase cost. You would think Hilleberg would give a two tent person tent owner a discount to get a third tent but no such joy.

Hmmm, I hadn't seen the Allak. But at 2.5-2.9kg and US$765, I would be better off with a Terra Nova Superlite Quasar (2.2-2.5kg, US$520).

From Hilleberg, I think the Nallo 3 looks like the pick. The extra 200g gets you some decent extra space over the Nallo 2. But at US$595, I am far from convinced.

[Ent]

As for non tunnel designs the Allak looks good but I have not seen one and besides for the limited reasons for me to use a dome tent I can survive with my MD Kaon and save the rather impressive purchase cost. You would think Hilleberg would give a two tent person tent owner a discount to get a third tent but no such joy.

Hmmm, I hadn't seen the Allak. But at 2.5-2.9kg and US$765, I would be better off with a Terra Nova Superlite Quasar (2.2-2.5kg, US$520).

From Hilleberg, I think the Nallo 3 looks like the pick. The extra 200g gets you some decent extra space over the Nallo 2. But at US$595, I am far from convinced.

The joys of choice and that is where personal preference comes in. For me given my experience with Hilleberg I do not have such an issue with price difference as getting the right tent is more important than getting the wrong one. Nowadays I would buy a Hilleberg based on specifications but want to see other brands in the flesh. USA tends to play games with the seasons ratings bringing the fifth season into play when rating tents and also getting spares is a consideration as treading on poles is probably the most common cause of loss. Still there are many great tents out there at good prices. Sadly very few decent reviews though so a lot of purchases have to be made on faith and I must admit I am losing faith with a lot of marketing hype as brand names become marketing names rather than a statement of design principles.

Cheers Brett

[Ent]

Looked at the reviews for the Terra Nova Superlite Quasar and also noticed that the price moves around a fair bit depending on source so the price you mentioned is excellent. It is interesting to note how they saved weight from the 4.00 kilogram monster that gets most of the favourable bullet proof reports. The pole sleeves have been dropped, it is inner then outer pitch, etc. Not sure I like those sort of trade-offs myself.

In fact a MD Kaon on cost and space would be a better bet (if brought on 25% off special) as it weighs a true 2.6 kilograms packed but has mesh doors so is rated 3.5 seasons which supposedly means strong enough for four seasons winds and snow but the mesh doors mean it is going to be colder than a true fully sealed inner type. Also it is claimed as a three person tent and it would hold three smaller adults inside but not so certain about storing their packs though. I struggled with a 90 litre and 38 litre one which blocked up one of the two vestibules. I am definitely not compact and nor was the person I have used it with but it managed two inside quite well.

Still horses for courses and tents for people. I would shell out the difference for a Hilleberg or remain with my MD Kaon, but that is just me

Cheers Brett

[WildWoila]

In fact a MD Kaon on cost and space would be a better bet (if brought on 25% off special) as it weighs a true 2.6 kilograms packed but has mesh doors so is rated 3.5 seasons which supposedly means strong enough for four seasons winds and snow but the mesh doors mean it is going to be colder than a true fully sealed inner type. Also it is claimed as a three person tent and it would hold three smaller adults inside but not so certain about storing their packs though. I struggled with a 90 litre and 38 litre one which blocked up one of the two vestibules. I am definitely not compact and nor was the person I have used it with but it managed two inside quite well.

You know what, I looked at the MD tents and didn't even notice the Kaon. And there was a 30% sale last weekend! Sigh ... The mesh wouldn't bother me - we have good sleeping bags and it would be better in warmer weather. Maybe I will go back in and have a look. If I like it, I could wait until another sale ...

Looked at the reviews for the Terra Nova Superlite Quasar and also noticed that the price moves around a fair bit depending on source so the price you mentioned is excellent. It is interesting to note how they saved weight from the 4.00 kilogram monster that gets most of the favourable bullet proof reports. The pole sleeves have been dropped, it is inner then outer pitch, etc. Not sure I like those sort of trade-offs myself.

Yeah, that's why I'm hoping someone has some experience with it. I am very impressed by Terra Nova's tents. But as you say, what if they have weakened the tent just a bit too much? Alternatively, there is the Terra Nova Ultra Quasar. It's their first go at lightening the Quasar. About 3kgs, much the same price.

Thanks for your input - very useful!

[Franco]

Wild Woila
Tent sizing suggestions...
With the Nallo you should get a pretty good idea by looking at the pictures on this site :
http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-nallo.php
Great people to buy the tent from also, not from personal experience but from comments by people I had recommended them.

For all other tents, a good start could be the way I do it...



This particular footprint is of the MH Bunker. Guess what conclusion I came to after this ????
(hint the mat , 168cm, is shorter than me ) no need in this case for me to work on the slope of the walls

If it passes the 2D quick look, this is the next step

(this is the Tarptent Moment)

Franco

[Nuts]

If it passes the 2D quick look, this is the next step

(this is the Tarptent Moment)

Franco

Your cat looks happy with it

WW, I came to the same conclusion about the Nallo2, it is big enough for 2 small people with small gear and that get on well. I moved on to Nallo3..

The Terra Nova interesting, v.light for a dome tent... they also seem to be building a solid reputation....

Prolite are a good company sell it. Iv'e noticed that they also sell hilleberg now..
(moontrail are ok. There are often cheaper options elsewhere (even given the freebies) or you can get price matches....)

Personally, I like the h'bergs but would wait to give macpac a chance or seriously consider locals again.. If from O/S I wouldn't stress too much... I'd probably try another company though (like tarptent, terra-nova) mainly cause iv'e been there, done that with h'berg... end of the day, its just a tent (at $3-400 per kg....)

By the stage that most people are looking at tents in the 4 season range i suspect that they are half convinced to buy one.... perhaps it is past the stage for someone to say: No, a dedicated 4 season tent is not necessary! Any well made 3 season tent, (preferably with angles to take a snow dump, (but then theres always waking up and belting the roof... those 2 nights a year it may happen)) would suffice... That is to say that you will have few dramas (unless you actually Plan to do a lot of winter walking). Also, for many years we used a DMH tunnel tent, cheap as chips, was good enough...

Obviously you have some experience, though for others, there are many cheaper and relatively adequate tents around.

[Franco]

Nuts
Thanks to Jenni Banks I have the new Macpac brochure.
The Macrolite (two crossing poles, freestanding) might do (and I agree with your comments about 3-4 season tents) if a large vestibule is not important (the protected entrances do have a smallish vestibule, provably good enough for boots and squeezing a pack under). Trail weight is just over 2 kg.
The Minaret at also just over 2 kg has less floor space but a bigger (single) vestibule. (same design as before, lighter fabric)
The Olympus appear also to have lost some weight, now 2.8kg on the road.
Franco

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks for the update Franco... that sounds like some substantial weight improvements (over my 6 year old Olympus, anyhow).

Does your tent have a mozzie-proof cat flap?

[DonQx]

As for non tunnel designs the Allak looks good but I have not seen one and besides for the limited reasons for me to use a dome tent I can survive with my MD Kaon and save the rather impressive purchase cost. You would think Hilleberg would give a two tent person tent owner a discount to get a third tent but no such joy.

Hmmm, I hadn't seen the Allak. But at 2.5-2.9kg and US$765, I would be better off with a Terra Nova Superlite Quasar (2.2-2.5kg, US$520).

From Hilleberg, I think the Nallo 3 looks like the pick. The extra 200g gets you some decent extra space over the Nallo 2. But at US$595, I am far from convinced.

Hi WW,

Haven't had time to read this thread fully, but ... we've got a Nallo 3 (+7 others ... gear freak disease ... ) ... good tent, worth my money ... you're welcome to have a look at it, I'm close to Hobart.

a.

[WildWoila]

For all other tents, a good start could be the way I do it...

Wow, Franco! That's impressive! And to think my girlfriend thinks *I* am a perfectionist ... !

[WildWoila]

Personally, I like the h'bergs but would wait to give macpac a chance or seriously consider locals again.

Yeah, I am currently leaning towards a Macpac Minaret. 2.1-2.4kg, $525 (if on sale in a couple of weeks). Just need to confirm with my girlfriend that it is big enough. It's certainly not spacious, but I think it's sufficient.

By the stage that most people are looking at tents in the 4 season range i suspect that they are half convinced to buy one.... perhaps it is past the stage for someone to say: No, a dedicated 4 season tent is not necessary! Any well made 3 season tent, (preferably with angles to take a snow dump, (but then theres always waking up and belting the roof... those 2 nights a year it may happen)) would suffice... That is to say that you will have few dramas (unless you actually Plan to do a lot of winter walking). Also, for many years we used a DMH tunnel tent, cheap as chips, was good enough...

I agree with your sentiment. However, I would like to invest in a tent that I can have confidence in, and that I can take winter camping or snow camping on a whim without being overly worried about the weather. I'm sure a three-season tent would be fine most of the time, but it is those few times when things get unexpectedly serious that I am allowing for! Maybe I am just getting older and more risk-averse ...

[WildWoila]

The Macrolite (two crossing poles, freestanding) might do (and I agree with your comments about 3-4 season tents) if a large vestibule is not important (the protected entrances do have a smallish vestibule, provably good enough for boots and squeezing a pack under). Trail weight is just over 2 kg.
The Minaret at also just over 2 kg has less floor space but a bigger (single) vestibule. (same design as before, lighter fabric)
The Olympus appear also to have lost some weight, now 2.8kg on the road.
Franco

Yeah, I've got the new brochure too. I'm very keen to see the Macrolight in the flesh. Could change my mind about the Minaret. If the vestibules are anything like the Apollo, they should be perfectly adequate. I suspect that even though the Minaret has less internal area, it might have more usable space, because of the tunnel design. I sat in it and decided that two people could quite happily sit up in it without being in each other's faces.

[WildWoila]

Hi WW,

Haven't had time to read this thread fully, but ... we've got a Nallo 3 (+7 others ... gear freak disease ... ) ... good tent, worth my money ... you're welcome to have a look at it, I'm close to Hobart.

a.

Hi DonQx,

Thanks for the offer! I am packing up my life in Canberra for the next couple of weeks. If I haven't taken the plunge and bought something before I get to Hobart, I might well take you up on that.

Cheers!