Is it worth packing a PLB and snake bandage for weight?

[emma_melbourne]

PACKING YOUR FEARS

Is it worth taking a PLB (130g) and snake bandage (97g) on a hike of the Overland Track?

I'm going at a booked-out time, over the holiday period late December, when there's lots of hikers on the trail.

Although I would like to maybe opt to do Mount Oakleigh (as suggested by members here on Bushwalk) which will be a section of trail less frequented.

My current pack set up is here:
https://www.lighterpack.com/r/bz0cqf

I've ended up with plans of a relatively lightweight set-up but with some serious indulgent luxuries.

(I know some of UL-ers will highly disapprove at the "fat" on my gearlist now. With a wider mat with 100 g penalty, a Helinox Zero chair at 500g, UL table 62 g, and yes even the kitchen sink at 49g for end-of-day proper private sponge bath to wash off the mud.) However it was doing my planning and seeing the short days of only 3.5 hours hiking on some days, which enable plenty of time to lounge at lunch with a beautiful view. And extra sun protection as I've had a melanoma from a scar, and very fair skin.

I think the rest of my set-up is relatively light"ish". Approx 7 kg base weight, of which 10% is pure luxuries.

Would you take the PLB and snake bandage???

I already own a snake bandage. I'd have to hire ($50) or buy ($300) the PLB.

My lightweight pack is getting out towards its weight-carrying capacity with full food and water carrying weight added in.

Emma

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Yes and yes. Without a shadow of a doubt IMHO.

I’d rather regret carrying 200g I didn’t need, than regret not having carried 200g.

[CasualNerd]

I would never rely on others for emergency equipment, plenty of far less prepared walkers will be on the track.

You'd feel pretty stupid carrying a chair around if you got bitten by a snake and didn't have a bandage or PLB.

[emma_melbourne]

Thank you! I was thinking perhaps it was OTT (over the top) taking PLB and snake bandage.

I shall add them, and maybe minus my beanie. (As I have hooded fleece and hooded down jacket.) And see where else I can cut some grams.

[Zapruda]

As ultralight as I am, there are two things I would never consider leaving behind. My PLB and snake bandage.

Its all about time with snake bites. You absolutely need to wrap that limb straight away if you get bitten and the sooner you are in contact with SAR the better chance you have.

As busy as the OT is I would never rely on someone else's help. It could be hours before someone comes past and by then it might be too late.

[ChrisJHC]

The snake bandage is, of course, usable for other bandaging purposes so you can consider it multi-purpose and therefore it meets one of the Ultralight requirements.

The PLB not so much but I also wouldn’t hike without it. I also take mine on motorbike tours, long distance cycling, etc

Also, I would think seriously about buying rather than renting as it sounds like you’ve got the bug and you’ll save serious money in the long-term.

[Gadgetgeek]

Nothing really to add besides confirming what everyone else has said. For what its worth, I've had people tell me they saw snakes on tracks I was just on with large groups, so someone running solo doesn't necessarily get a safer track due to traffic. It also may not be for you, but you might be the one who finds someone who'd been bit. Other than that, have a great time!

[Warin]

Thank you! I was thinking perhaps it was OTT (over the top) taking PLB and snake bandage.

Safety equipment is never over the top. {edit} Humm, well at least a PLB and bandage are not over the top. {/edit}

I shall add them, and maybe minus my beanie. (As I have hooded fleece and hooded down jacket.) And see where else I can cut some grams.

The huts have tables and chairs. The tent platforms double as chairs/tables. Leave the table and chair behind - 560 grams there. You'll only miss them at some stops between huts .. and even some of those have logs/rocks you can use.

Last edited by Warin on Thu 08 Nov, 2018 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[neilmny]

As per all above and leave the Helinox chair home your load will be lighter.

[Moondog55]

Carry them in your pockets and it may not count as "packed weight"
Never used a PLB but I'm never without a couple of big roller bandages. If seriously worried about being snake bitten perhaps you should invest in one of the new high-tek bandages?
Seriously tho I stopped worrying about being bitten 30 years ago when I bought my first knee high canvas gaiters and realised I could use my belt as a constrictive bandage. Yes I have personal experience of helping a snake bite victim ; my daughter and that was in suburban Melbourne, the Merri Creek path a much more dangerous area for snakes than most people realise. Roller bandage and a fast drive to RCH emergency

[ChrisJHC]

I shall add them, and maybe minus my beanie.

Or you could just wrap your head (loosely) with the bandage each night = ultralight beanie!

[emma_melbourne]

Yes - as above I am taking snake bandage and PLB.

@Moondog55 Oh my goodness that must have been very scary for your daughter and yourself. What were the circumstances under which she got bitten in suburban Melbourne? Did she accidentally step on one?

I believe it's pretty unlikely that I will get bitten by a snake, and I'm not particularly worried. I mean it's always a small risk. Snakes inherently want to get out of the way of humans and don't typically bit unless they're threatened. (Most likely I guess if you managed to somehow inadvertently step on one.) What is more scary though is that Tasmania's snakes are so poisonous. And I say that coming from New Zealand where we have very little that can kill you. There's like a rare spider, a Katapo, which you'd likely have to disturb under a big log on a West Coast South Island beach. Apart from that, we're the land of birds - many flightless, a few rats and nuisance possums. Oh and sheep, lots of sheep. Wink.

Statistically I've read that 2-3 people a year die of a snake bite in Australia. Compare that to car accidents etc.

The snake bandage I have is the Equip Premium Snake Bit Bandage with Indicator:
http://www.bogong.com.au/equip-premium- ... cator.html

I've read that the snake bites into the meat of the limb, most commonly the leg, and that essentially the aim is to achieve compression and immobilisation of the limb. As venom travels through the lymph system, you need to not be moving and flailing as that's going to move venom through the lymph system. So compression bandage the entire limb, with the diamonds turning into squares under compression to show how tight to bandage, and then idea to immobilise the limb and ideally not move. And get help in. It takes someone an average of 12 hours to die of a snake bite.

So I think one would be pretty unlucky to get bitten by a snake, and even less likely to die on the Overland Track at one of the busiest times of the year from a snake bite. That would make headlines all over Australia.

However for 96 grams, I'm totally happy to take a specialist snake bandage anyway. And a PLB at 130 grams.

And as others have mentioned, it's possibly more likely that if I were to use either item, it may be for someone else rather than myself.

I think it's probably worth the extra peace of mind, knowing I've got everything I could take to be prepared for anything, including an very unlikely unforseen emergency like somehow badly slipping and falling and breaking something, or unlikely but possible snake bite.

The other thing I could do to mitigate the snake bite risk is to pack canvas gaiters. I do have some Quagmire canvas gaiters at 320 g, but I had opted for the UL Zpacks rain gaiters at 60g for dealing with on-trail mud etc and maybe slightly less leeches worn on top of pants, as I think extra weight on the lower legs or feet is really felt. (They say anecdotally that weight on your feet is tripled compared to weight in your pack.)

[Moondog55]

Emma we were taking a stroll along the creek, she was young 6 or 7 YO and wearing LW sandals and a juvenile Brown bit her on the foot in the space between the leather. More than a little scary for a short while.

https://walkingmaps.com.au/walk/3549

[emma_melbourne]

The chair? Not the chair! Nooooo! (Said in jest)

[emma_melbourne]

Emma we were taking a stroll along the creek, she was young 6 or 7 YO and wearing LW sandals and a juvenile Brown bit her on the foot in the space between the leather. More than a little scary for a short while.

https://walkingmaps.com.au/walk/3549

As the mother of a 2 year old girl, that scenario terrifies me. Oh my goodness.

[Mark F]

The snake bandage is far more useful than just reacting to snake bite. Also good for strapping wonky knees, sprained ankles etc - a far more common occurrence.

[wildwanderer]

Hi Emma, looks like your gear list is really coming together!

A few comments.

plb and snake bandage: YES bring!

110 grams of Gas: Your going to be pushing it to get 6 days worth out of 110grams.. Depends if you have tea/coffee/ soup as well as heat a meal a day. But personally I would bring a 220g cylindar. When you see everyone having ther hot chocolates/tea/coffee each night/morning your going to get very jealous.

umbrella.. You have a hat/sunscreen and there are trees. Easy 200 grams saving.

make sure you can fit your fleece etc in your pack as well. your unlikely to want to wear it while walking. Even at 10 degrees most people wear just a long sleeve shirt if no wind.

make sure you include cold and flu/ diarrhea meds.

- up to you but you can use your boots to dig a toilet hole instead of the trowel

- did i miss dishwashing liquid? As dont have enough gas to use hot water.

why do you need a food pouch when you already have the critter bag?

With 1 L water and your unweighed extras your going to be at about 13-13.5kg. Which is fine but is your 800 gram pack comfortable with 13+ kg in it?

[Warin]

umbrella.. You have a hat/sunscreen and there are trees. Easy 200 grams saving.

I bought one of them $5 feebay hat umbrellas. Does for both sun shade and rain. And keeps my hands free for whatever. Diameter is ~49 to 54 cm depending on where you measure it. You can get bigger ones but then they catch more wind.

Problems? the elastic head band was too tight, suppose it needs to be for wind gusts, but it gave me a headache. So I made a sweat band to replace the elastic, bit of microfleece towel, velcro and some elastic so I can use it over a beanie if cold. But it still needs a chin strap for wind, and a bit less light coming through it for sun. Presently 91 grams, so add some for the chin strap and a black silicon coat on the underside.
Fashionably unfashionable.

- did i miss dishwashing liquid? As dont have enough gas to use hot water.

N/A on OT. Banned. Along with soap.
Griselda Sprigg used sand in the Simpson Desert for washing up, no water let alone dishwashing liquid.

------------
Digging holes? Tent pegs. Bits if stick. A rock. Don't use your walking poles (snap). And I'd not use my foot ware.

[Lamont]

As said already, am ultralight but my Inreach (your case- PLB) and bandage/first aid are the first things that go in.
Also might I add that as calm speed is of the essence-if you haven't already, familiarise yourself with the activation of the PLB.
Have a top time.

[emma_melbourne]

Hi Emma, looks like your gear list is really coming together!

A few comments.

plb and snake bandage: YES bring!

110 grams of Gas: Your going to be pushing it to get 6 days worth out of 110grams.. Depends if you have tea/coffee/ soup as well as heat a meal a day. But personally I would bring a 220g cylindar. When you see everyone having ther hot chocolates/tea/coffee each night/morning your going to get very jealous.

umbrella.. You have a hat/sunscreen and there are trees. Easy 200 grams saving.

make sure you can fit your fleece etc in your pack as well. your unlikely to want to wear it while walking. Even at 10 degrees most people wear just a long sleeve shirt if no wind.

make sure you include cold and flu/ diarrhea meds.

- up to you but you can use your boots to dig a toilet hole instead of the trowel

- did i miss dishwashing liquid? As dont have enough gas to use hot water.

why do you need a food pouch when you already have the critter bag?

With 1 L water and your unweighed extras your going to be at about 13-13.5kg. Which is fine but is your 800 gram pack comfortable with 13+ kg in it?

@wildwanderer Thank you so much for your comments. I welcome and love experienced eyes over my gearlist, offering options and suggestions and alternatives.

Regards gas, you could well be right.

Cooking-wise, I was planning on just bringing water to boil in my 650 ml titanium pot, but not using it for actually cooking as I'm doing freezer bag cooking (eg I'm doing couscous / angel hair in freezer bag meals with infused olive oil and addition of herbs / tuna / parmesan etc, and the freezer bag goes inside my Big Sky International insulated pouch). I'm doing cold lunches. Breakfast I was planning to do one boil for a coffee and porridge. (My pot is 650 ml, and I've tested doing both from one boil - and yes can do.) Dinner as mentioned bringing water to boil.
Day 1 - brekkie is in my hotel. So I only need 1 boil (dinner).
Day 2 - Boil in morning & boil in evening. So 2 boils.
Day 3. Same. 2 boils.
Day 4. Same 2 boils.
Day 5. Same 2 boils.
Day 6. Brekkie only. 1 boil.

Total: 10 boils of around 550 ml water quantity in Toaks 650 ml titanium UL pot.

Does that aid the gas consumption estimate?

The large 10 Litre critter bag does something entirely different, which is to act like a "bear bag" essentially, but for critters rather than bears. Whereas the Big Sky International insulated bag is a small-sized insulated pouch for freezer bag cooking.
(I realize on my gear list the images have no scale, so I can completely see how that could be super-confusing.)

Umbrella - yes I could remove it. I have had melanoma cut out, with 2 surgeries, second at specialized melanoma clinic at Alfred Hospital, and the threat that if it returns I will most likely die. The melanoma was I later found out from a scar where a flying plate hit the back of my arm raised over my head to shield my face and head, and the scar tissue is both more sensitive to UV and also new tissue more prone to mutation due to copy-error.

Also on umbrella, it was interestingly the number #1 regret of not bringing, from several hikers that I follow, who are both ultralighters and left it behind to save weight. It does sun protection and showers (in conditions of not too much wind). And great for cover while you stop to eat lunch on trail. But yes you're right I could leave it and save the 209 grams weight.

I will consider option to ditch umbrella, and weigh it up.

The trowel is only 17 grams, and I think it's easier to get sufficient depth and be practising good "no trace" principles, and setting a good example for others also in that regard. I could use boot, stick or tent peg, but I think the 17 grams is worth it.

I don't think I need detergent, as I'm doing freezer bag cooking, and I can wash the freezer bags out with water, and pack them out in my rubbish bag, kept within my Lopsak Opsak to prevent smells and within Minor Critter bag to keep out wildlife.

Good advice re fleece. I can't tell until I load up a simulated food bag with food. Though due to all the side compartments and mesh pockets on my pack, I *think* I'll be ok, because:
- the tent fits in the front mesh pocket on outside of pack. The Thermarest mat I can also fit either in side pocket or folded in back panel area. My much-desired Zero chair fits in side mesh pocket.
- my down quilt compresses into an 8 Litre Zpacks bag at bottom of my pack. My clothes fit in an 8L with room left over. And the food bag is 10 Litres which is *meant* to be enough for my 700 grams a day x 5.5 days. Exped med bag with my meds, bandage, toiletries, safety, compass, map - doesn't take up very much room.
- my headlamp fits in hip belt pocket, etc. I can clip PLB onto shoulder strap, etc.

I am just awaiting a few items arriving by post, and then I will test out with food bag full up with actual freezer bags full of measured couscous, olive oil bottle, mountain bread, tuna sachets, snacks etc at 700 grams a day.

I agree with your analysis on weight. I need to try and get my base weight at around 7 kg. Plus food 4 kg. Plus 1 L / 1 kg water, would be 12 kg. My pack is here:

Berghaus Fasthike 45 pack is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5rPpKea-D4&t=1109s

So yes then this is when it becomes a question of dropping some weight from:
- possibly beloved chair (around 500g)
- umbrella (around 200 g)
- table and cutting board etc (around 80g)
- one pair of Crane thermal base leggings (at 110 g, as I have the hiking trousers, the Helium rain trousers, the Macpac 220 merino leggings for camp and sleeping.)

Or throw money to save weight.
- Lighter quilt with sewn-in footbox like the Enigma in same 20F rating, 10 Denier fabric, is about 550 grams, and would save 140g from my current quilt which was built extra-wide for my infant daughter to fit in with me. Or Zpacks sleeping bag 20F same deal on lighter weight.
- Lighter tent by going to Zpacks Duplex cuban fibre, or other UL tent etc, save 500g. My current Lightheart Gear Solong 6 tent I really like as it is spacious for 1 person, has awning which is enjoyable in rain, was inexpensive on sale and a sample tent in 30 Denier sil-poly. (Judy is going to run all her tents in sil-poly but 20 Denier, building her new factory, and setting up and transitioning right now.) The design is very stable with trekking poles going into fibre glass ridge pole, used by heaps of people successfully in all conditions on the Appelachian Trail etc with great reviews. And the 30 Denier has me feel more confident about going without groundsheet etc. It pitches all-in-one. So in other words, I'm fond of my tent, although it is 1.1 kg with the seam sealing and silicone floor stripes, in the heavier 30 Denier fabric, and there are plenty of lighter options if I threw more money to save weight.

Tent: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... r+solong+6

Or, I could jump up to my bigger Berghaus Wilderness 60 + 15 L pack. The negative being it's 1 kg heavier, and how to put it.... bulky, clunky, not at all gazelle-like.

Thoughts?

[wildwanderer]

Regards gas, you could well be right.

Cooking-wise, I was planning on just bringing water to boil in my 650 ml titanium pot, but not using it for actually cooking as I'm doing freezer bag cooking (eg I'm doing couscous / angel hair in freezer bag meals with infused olive oil and addition of herbs / tuna / parmesan etc, and the freezer bag goes inside my Big Sky International insulated pouch). I'm doing cold lunches. Breakfast I was planning to do one boil for a coffee and porridge. (My pot is 650 ml, and I've tested doing both from one boil - and yes can do.) Dinner as mentioned bringing water to boil.
Day 1 - brekkie is in my hotel. So I only need 1 boil (dinner).
Day 2 - Boil in morning & boil in evening. So 2 boils.
Day 3. Same. 2 boils.
Day 4. Same 2 boils.
Day 5. Same 2 boils.
Day 6. Brekkie only. 1 boil.

Total: 10 boils of around 550 ml water quantity in Toaks 650 ml titanium UL pot.

Does that aid the gas consumption estimate?

That seems like a reasonable estimate for the cooking you intend to do in calm conditions (or in a hut). Though as I mentioned I think your going to see other people have hot chocolate/tea in the late afternoons and evenings and wish you brought more gas so you could have some too. There is nothing like a warm drink if its been a cold day/night. Instant Soup with croutons is also excellent. Personally speaking I would rather carry extra gas weight than the other luxuries your planning to take along like the table, kitchen sink etc. I love my chair but id probably ditch it if I was spending each night at a hut with tables and benches. However its your hike and everyone is different.

Understand now re the insulated bag. Ive never used one and interested to hear how it goes.

Understand your reasoning re umbrella/skin cancer. However your wearing full length clothing/ sun gloves and have an excellent hat and sunglasses. Combined with 50+ sunscreen there will be limited opportunities for UV exposure.

is the 45L pack measurement including the mesh pockets? or not including. If not including then yes you will have space. However if its raining anything your store in the mesh (eg fleece) will get very wet. (could put it in a ziploc to minimise water penetration)

I think the leggings are a reasonable ditch. As you do have thermals/rain trousers/walking pants.

I wouldn’t recommend putting a thermarest in any mesh/outside pocket as small spiky twigs/grass/plant needles always find there way into the mesh pockets. plus you don’t want a wet sleeping mat.

Re not bringing detergent due to freezer bag cooking. Fair point but your spoon will still need a wash. A handy hint is to put your spoon into your just boiled water for about 30 secs. Should sterilise it reasonably well before you eat with it. Lick the spoon clean of food debris after you use it. I wouldnt bring the cutting board but use my pot lid instead. Added bonus is the pod lid gets sterlised everytime you boil water. Keeping the cutting board clean requires wiping it down and some sort of soap/detergent or dirt.

Re the bigger pack. Only way to find out is to put all your stuff/food in the smaller pack and see how it feels. Go for a half day walk with it on and weighted if possible. Should offer a good evaluation of any issues with the pack for the weight your carrying.

[davidf]

I carry 2 wide elastic bandages and some steri strips and a pad and tape. Fix yourself and most gear. Plb is a great idea, if i wasnt a tight *&%$#! fool i,d have one.

[davidf]

Also take the beanie!

[north-north-west]

If you have rainpants and walking pants, you don't need leggings for day use as well. I'd ditch them before the beanie.

[Ant71]

Hi I just had a quick look on the parks website and the two items are not on the sign sheet but are on the gear list. I am sure you have looked at this list but I will put the link in incase anyone wants to look at it ( https://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=36840 ). I always take a PLB and a first aid kit on all my walks that said I am no UL hiker and never will be my pack weighed 20kg before water for the OLT

[Neo]

Yes.

[wallwombat]

It's not the PCT. Take the beanie.

[Mark F]

... I am no UL hiker and never will be my pack weighed 20kg before water for the OLT

Just wait till your knees start to give out or you enter your 60's - you will be shedding kgs from your pack like a pro.
Emma - no need for leggings. If it is miserable just wear your thermals under your pants or rain pants. This is the reason I use polypro thermals for the legs rather than merino. Polypro will dry out faster and can still be used that night.

[Warin]

Umbrella - yes I could remove it.
The melanoma was I later found out from a scar where a flying plate hit the back of my arm raised over my head to shield my face and head, and the scar tissue is both more sensitive to UV and also new tissue more prone to mutation due to copy-error.

Ware an arm band. Ensure it is light proof. It will be lighter than a brolley, always there (unlike a brolley that can be useless in wind, or tilted at the wrong angle). Some cloth .. bit of velcro and your done.

[Mark F]

Brollies are often good, especially for sun protection - think Larapinta or even Kosciuszko but the olt tends to be much windier making a brolly less useful.
Regarding gas usage, I would expect you to scrape though on the 110g canister assuming you keep the flame relatively subdued. From your info I would allow 20g per day but you won't make it if you like to turn the valve up to full on.