Best Synthetic/Down jacket for all types of winter?

[jatacid]

Hello! I want do buy a synthetic 'puffy' layer for my winter layering system (Down is good too, but I'd prefer synthetic because I plan on taking in potentially wetter conditions.

I'm looking for jacket recommendations in this category, that will help fit into a layering system for brutal cold (i.e an Everest/Annapurna/Patagonia) hike, as well as Australian winter conditions which are usually much milder.

At this point my layering system looks like:

1. Thermal underwear (lightweights during the day, a spare midweight to wear at night or in emergencies)
2. Lightweight fleece
3. Patagonia Nano Air (functions as a pseudoshell or a thick fleece hybrid)
4a. Rain/snow shell
4b. Packable ultralight wind shell if windy but dry
5. INSERT PUFFY LAYER HERE (functions as a warm layer for camp, or in extreme cold whilst hiking)

Any ideas?
P.s I love lightweight considerations but generally all good quality items are pretty light already.

[Warin]

Layering order need revision thus.

1. Thermal underwear (lightweights during the day, a spare midweight to wear at night or in emergencies)
2. Lightweight fleece
3. Patagonia Nano Air (functions as a pseudoshell or a thick fleece hybrid)

5. INSERT PUFFY LAYER HERE (functions as a warm layer for camp, or in extreme cold whilst hiking)

4a. Rain/snow shell
4b. Packable ultralight wind shell if windy but dry

If you ware your night gear for 'emergencies' .. what will you ware at night? Be carefull with taking gear meant of something and using it for some thing else if it then makes their original use impractical.

If it is going to be wet you migh consider a non down sleeping bag, or 2 sleeping bags - the outer one artificial.

[crollsurf]

TNF Thermoball is worth a look for a puffer. Not UL but kind of rainproof. You get caught in a shower and it works well. Day in day out rain, it probably wont keep you dry but should still keep you warm.

I got a UL Montbell Plasma but if its cool and I'm expecting some rain but not a lot, I'll grab the Thermoball and leave the Plasma and rain jacket at home.

Edit: If you're jacket is awesome, go the Plasma. $$$ insane light quality kit

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Last edited by crollsurf on Wed 20 Feb, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[jatacid]

UL Montbell Plasma

What temps can you take this down to with your full layering system?

[crollsurf]

Probably go around 10C resting with no layering with the Plasma... just

BTW its Down but Montbell have some pretty sweet Alpine puffers as well if you got the $$$

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Last edited by crollsurf on Wed 20 Feb, 2019 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Lamont]

What sort of minimum temp extremes might you be talking overseas? Minus 15,20?

[Moondog55]

Almost anything synthetic will work here in Australia in winter if worn over those other layers but it is the lower temperatures in the high places that down would be more effective.
My understanding is that the NanoAir is usually worn next to the skin or over an UL base layer and not over a LW fleece.
My own experience above the snowline has seen me switch back and forth between down and Polargard and at the moment I am using either the old style Patagonia DAS parka or one of the US surplus clones [ the L-7 layers of the PCU system] because our soggy winter climate means we need more insulation to counter the humidity.
Warin may be right in one sense but I wear my synthetic puffy as an outer layer over my shell as in your first post, but I get belay parka cut garments too do so and pay the weight penalty for doing so.
Base layer plus NanoAir plus shell should cover almost all active parts of the day so a layer to wear when static?
Patagonia Nanopuff adds about 10C for me so OK for pottering around camp but not warm enough to bivvy in for my old body, for that I need the DAS or something with at least 300 grams of down.
Also important and not on your list is leg insulation, while your legs may not feel the cold as much you lose a lot of heat from the femoral area of your legs and this area needs as much insulation as your top.head and feet.
As Lamont asks; what minimum temperatures are you looking at ? -30 for Everest region with high winds would mean something different from Patagonia where I believe it has both very high winds and soggy conditions.
I think for a synthetic parka you need something with at least 100GSM of fill for Australia as a belay parka, other people I know can get away with and be comfortable with 40 or 60GSM insulation when used in conjunction with a couple of LW fleece layers. More important is fit, most of the clothing I see now isn't cut to layer and you need to go up a size or two in each layer to maintain a 5 to 7mm airgap between each layer, this can make the belay parka pretty big and bulky in the pack

[jatacid]

What sort of minimum temp extremes might you be talking overseas? Minus 15,20?

I guess the coldest I plan on doing is alpine Nepal so -20?
I think I'm more or less settling on the base layer and hard shell, but mid layer, and puffy/insulation layers are what keeps getting me confused.
Because there's all the advice to 'layer' very distinct layers, but then you get items like the nano-air which have this pseudo 2 layer function but provide way more versatility and less need to swap out layers & provide a more comfortable range.
And with puffys - I wanna get something that's warm whilst around camp, but not sure how warm I need to get given Australia/South america won't ever get that cold.

Almost anything synthetic will work here in Australia in winter if worn over those other layers but it is the lower temperatures in the high places that down would be more effective.
My understanding is that the NanoAir is usually worn next to the skin or over an UL base layer and not over a LW fleece.
My own experience above the snowline has seen me switch back and forth between down and Polargard and at the moment I am using either the old style Patagonia DAS parka or one of the US surplus clones [ the L-7 layers of the PCU system] because our soggy winter climate means we need more insulation to counter the humidity.
Warin may be right in one sense but I wear my synthetic puffy as an outer layer over my shell as in your first post, but I get belay parka cut garments too do so and pay the weight penalty for doing so.
Base layer plus NanoAir plus shell should cover almost all active parts of the day so a layer to wear when static?
Patagonia Nanopuff adds about 10C for me so OK for pottering around camp but not warm enough to bivvy in for my old body, for that I need the DAS or something with at least 300 grams of down.
Also important and not on your list is leg insulation, while your legs may not feel the cold as much you lose a lot of heat from the femoral area of your legs and this area needs as much insulation as your top.head and feet.
As Lamont asks; what minimum temperatures are you looking at ? -30 for Everest region with high winds would mean something different from Patagonia where I believe it has both very high winds and soggy conditions.
I think for a synthetic parka you need something with at least 100GSM of fill for Australia as a belay parka, other people I know can get away with and be comfortable with 40 or 60GSM insulation when used in conjunction with a couple of LW fleece layers. More important is fit, most of the clothing I see now isn't cut to layer and you need to go up a size or two in each layer to maintain a 5 to 7mm airgap between each layer, this can make the belay parka pretty big and bulky in the pack

Thanks for your insight! The Patagonia DAS looks like a serious beast. I've heard people hiking basecamp with mountain hardware ghost whisperer as their puffy so why do you recommend such a heavy duty puffy? I'm not sure what I'm missing lol

[Moondog55]

I snow camp most ski seasons and that is what I have found I need when static. I haven't tried the new HyperDAS but it is supposed to be warmer and lighter.
Also synthetics seem to loose at least a third of the warmth very quickly before stabilising and degrading more slowly after that so a DAS with 150GSM insulation at 3 years old is as warm as a new with 100GSM fill. I also found that the single DAS was warmer than two layered NanoPuffs which surprised me greatly and I've not worked out why that was yet
I feel the cold when static and better too much insulation than not enough, you can always vent
The Patagonia DAS and the PCU Level 7 layers are functional equivalents and for deep cold the Yanks have a big-mother over-parka cut to fit over the DAS as do the Canadians, Norwegians and Swedish.
-20C is pretty easy to deal with in my limited experience because that is when the air dries out and the insulation works best and where the windproof layers become much more important.
Lots of choices out there but not a lot in a belay parka cut as it is a sort of specialised garment, the current crop of puffer parkas and jackets seem to be cut slim and narrow and more for mid-layer use it seems.
I can't yet report on the Macpac Polartec Alpha-Direct I just bought as it is and has been too warm to wear it.