Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

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Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 27 Jan, 2021 9:51 am

Bear in mind that as my Alaska trip is cancelled and I will probably now never get back to the USA and.or Canada this is hypothetical.
For my proposed winter trip to Alaska I was worried that my sleeping bag might not be warm enough so I ordered a custom overquilt from Nunatak.
That uses the very light but windproof and highly water resistant UL Robic fabric as the shell and 100GSM APEX insulation. It has a fitted footbox and a pad sleeve sized to fit a wide pad, with base layers, socks and a LW balaclava it is probably good to around 10C on its own but adds 10 degrees to a sleeping bags bottom line.
When I sold my deep winter sleeping bag I sent my old bag back to the factory for a rejuvenation and due to a mistake on the factories part it was mistakenly refilled in the bottom half only and with 150 grams of 700FP down after my complaint an extra 100 grams of 850FP down was then added to the top half. So I have a sleeping bag that weighs 1250 grams and now with 70mm of insulation; therefore rated for about -18C with a margin for safety due to the better insulation of an over stuffed bag.
This left me with a problem for warm summer weather as I had no bag suitable for the hills in the warmer months.
After much thinking and talking to people I have bought the Sea to Summit Traveller 2, although I consider the bag underfilled at the factory and it will soon be topped up with an additional 100grams of 850FP down. The S2S rating for the bag is 5C with LW clothing as per the EN standard. It will be warmer when it is topped up and conservatively then good for 0C
This bag is similar to the Feathered Friends Flicker but cut a bit larger and just a little heavier. Because of the sizing it fits as an overbag to my old winter bag except for the very top section so I simply reverse it and put the open zipper section under me., and this should add at least 20degrees to any bag underneath it.
Now because the Nunatak custom overquilt was made to go over an Arctic bag it also fits over the S2S bag.
So my theoretical system should be good for [ 0C + (10C) + (-18C)] or put another way it's -18C rating lowered by the rating of the overbag system which is about -10C or -28C in total.
The weak point would be the head area but I think that can be easily ameliorated by wearing a down hood and taking an idea from Kevin Kinney of Empire Canvas in the USA a fur ruff on the sleeping hood or LW down parka. There is now no room inside the old sleeping bag for my heavy weight down parka but a LW one will fit as will my Patagonia DAS insulated pants.
As it stands now the S2S Traveller is a good enough and comfortable summer bag and with the addition of the synthetic overquilt good enough for snow conditions here in Oz and can be boosted with warm clothing for the extremes of winter here and I think the triple combination with light weight insulated clothing should/could cope with -40C. Not quite the -55C of the bag I sold but then those very cold temperatures are now probably something I would not attempt. The downside is that the triple combination weighs a kilo more than the single bag and takes up more space in the pack or the sled.
I still haven't modified the S2S Traveller with clips to fix it to the overquilt, I'll do that after the top-up but I might get away to the High Plains next week and get to check out the S2S as a summer bag properly
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby andrewa » Wed 27 Jan, 2021 8:10 pm

Overthinking!

It’s good to do so, but simplest is mostly best.

You’re not going to get anywhere “really cold” in the next 2 years, and I reckon I could cope with anything Oz offers with either of my quilts, plus clothes. Summer quilt, winter quilt. Slightly different clothing systems. Easy.

Choice 1 or 2. Easy.
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 27 Jan, 2021 8:19 pm

Yeah Andrew just thinking what I could do with what I already own rather than thinking about a specific trip or destination.
The fact that the loft in the refurbished J&H Ultra won't allow the wearing of heavy expedition down garments now is what prompted the thought train.
But I do like sleeping systems and how they are adaptable to various conditions.
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby stry » Thu 28 Jan, 2021 7:13 am

andrewa is on the money - too much thinking :lol: . And you need to get out more, which appears to be in hand. :D

Cancellation of your trip is unfortunate, but covid has meant the cancellation of a couple of trips for me; and for older people, the window for such activities may well close before travel is again practicable.

The synthetic overquilt resonates with me as it seems like an ideal way to reduce, maybe eliminate, the build up of moisture in the main bag. PHDs insulated bivy is sound thinking in this regard.

Personally, I'll just bumble along with simple stuff (bag or quilt plus backup clothing) that I know works for me. All that system stuff is way too heavy and bulky for anything that I am likely to do here or in NZ.
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 28 Jan, 2021 12:22 pm

If you can't /don't dream you may as well be dead.
People should have big dreams.
I'm hoping I can keep dreaming for a while yet
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Nuts » Thu 28 Jan, 2021 3:34 pm

Oh, right, so not a thread about chunder and Diarrhea.. :)
You are a chef?, borrow an industrial fan & commercial freezer?
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Mark F » Thu 28 Jan, 2021 3:41 pm

Moondog - I recommend a warm hat and thick socks to deal with the extremities.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Al M » Sat 30 Jan, 2021 12:10 am

Since weight saving is not usually a concern for you perhaps an electric blanket with minimal sleep bag and 130ah lithium battery pack :D

Howabout NZ mountains winter trip options for the gear you have where COVID travel may allow and such places where there are more ICU hospital beds incase one falls on the other side of vaccine ineffectiveness percentile. What a bummer this precludes the Himalayas sucking on 50% oxygen rarity levels at 5000m :oops:
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 30 Jan, 2021 6:47 am

I actually think if I did manage to get to some of those cold high places I'd go back to wearing a down suit and a medium weight extra large sleeping bag, which was the rationale for buying the J&H Ultra in the first place.
Much lighter than the big battery Packed weight and bulk do count a bit but trying not to spend to much money does take precedence nowadays.
@Mark I just added my winter warm sleeping socks to my packing list
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby crollsurf » Sat 30 Jan, 2021 7:02 pm

Australian conditions, nice combo. NZ as well. If Alaska does end up becoming a reality, I'd worry about it when it happens and still think you'd be OK outside winter.
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 02 Feb, 2021 10:06 am

crollsurf wrote:Australian conditions, nice combo. NZ as well. If Alaska does end up becoming a reality, I'd worry about it when it happens and still think you'd be OK outside winter.

I was actually hoping that if the trip ever eventuates [ which it probably won't as things are ATM] that it would cope with winter temperatures if wearing appropriate warm layers to sleep in.
Avoiding the Brooks Range and other super cold places most people over there seem to cope with systems rated to -25C.
I haven't tried to wriggle into the refilled bag while wearing my big down parka tho, it's simply been to warm to try doing that and the lowest setting on the airconditioning is a warm 16C
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Re: Can my system cope with the extremes at both ends?

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 17 Feb, 2023 8:43 am

Update
As I didn't do a proper trip report of this winters skiing.
I took along a selection of sleeping bags and tried out a few combinations.
Before the winter I bought a Macpac Firefly200 and had Remote add in an extra 100 grams of down and at the same time had my S2S Traveller 2 topped up by the same amount.
Using the Firefly inside my extra large synthetic bag I was mostly warm enough if I wore the cheap Uniqlo down jacket and often had to remove the down jacket or at least open it up and remove the hood.
Using my UL Nunatak overquilt in combination with the over filled S2S Traveller I was usually too warm if I used the down jacket so wore a balaclava to keep my noggin warm.
While using the synthetic layer over the down I had very few issues with water accumulating in the down layers.
One night I experimented with using just the home modified synthetic bag and my insulated clothing [ Patagonia DAS pants; which I sold this year and my new DeadBird parka and my WM down boots] and that too was warm enough but less comfortable.
So I remain of the opinion that a lightweight down sleeping bag plus an APEX quilt is the ideal sleeping system combination for our soggy winter white season conditions but sized to allow the wearing of clothing at need
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