Bushwalk Australia

I was just wondering what you do with empty gas canisters - do you just throw them in the bin or is there somewhere to drop them off for recycling?

They will take them at recycling depots, however, the place you purchased them from is supposed to take them back (tis written somewhere..)

Our local recycler in Adelaide said they will not accept them due to the OHS risks in handling them. They are to be dealt with by a special collection which includes pressue packs (spray paint & the like), this advice is now 2 years old and so maybe out of date. I've heard similiar positions elsewhere in Oz. As for the retailer accepting the empties back, ho ho ho.

Take a church key to them. Once opened to the air it's hard for any recycler to honestly say they are risky.

Yer... well, we are talking about tassie (?). Iv'e left them with the guys at the tip before (they actually give our dog a treat if he comes along...) and I also returned around 50 to the local retailer last week... They arent something that are dealt with every day so I guess some may need educating In saying so, I cant find where I read about regulation requiring them to be accepted by the retailer. I'm awaiting a response from the Kovea agent. They claim to have not received any back so my guess is that they are ending up, via the retailer, at the tip (hopefully in recycling).

So whats the 'special collection' wander? Has your cylinder been sitting in the shed waiting for the last couple of years

Our local council runs a special collection each year where you can deliver on a set date for your suburb your old paint, batteries, ewaste, chemicals and the like for them to dispose of as a bulk deal once their collection is complete. There is a very small charge based on what you deliver.

I do not use the canisters for a few reasons. One is the environmental costs of the canister process compared the pet bottle process for liquid fuel.

I was under the impression the official Tassie collection point for canisters was at Melaleuca. There always seems to be a couple of doz stacked in the shelves of the huts there.

There is a Tas Wide Service by the name of Chem Safe Homes Tasmania which is free check out http://www.lgat.tas.gov.au it runs to the end of March 2010.
They will accept empty Gas cannisters as well as other other chemicals you want rid of including old paint.
I also believe that you can leave them at the local Transfer Stations in Tassie any time.
corvus

wander wrote:Our local council runs a special collection each year where you can deliver on a set date for your suburb your old paint, batteries, ewaste, chemicals and the like for them to dispose of as a bulk deal once their collection is complete. There is a very small charge based on what you deliver.

I do not use the canisters for a few reasons. One is the environmental costs of the canister process compared the pet bottle process for liquid fuel.

I guess its all relative, seems to me that the amount of cannisters used is in proportion to the amount of 'ewaste' saved while we're out using them...
Others have shown here that they can be as efficient in use.
Iv'e heard on the grapevine that they can be refilled (though not 'legally' here in Tassie).
They are generally safer (...well... I havent set my foot alight with a gas cylinder ...yet) and 'cleaner' to use...

What other reasons?

(Good find Corvus)

The Parks and Wildlife Service Visitors Centre at Lake St Clair will take empty cylinders. They advertise that they appreciate a donation to cover their costs of disposing them but I dropped some empties off there in January and they wouldn't accept any money.
Bruce

Thanks for your ideas everyone.

corvus wrote:There is a Tas Wide Service by the name of Chem Safe Homes Tasmania which is free check out http://www.lgat.tas.gov.au it runs to the end of March 2010.

Yeah, I saw this, but it looks like you have to drop your stuff at the tip on a specific day - unfortunately I'll be away the day that it's on in Hobart.

I'll see if the camping shop I bought them from will take them back.

I don't like the waste, but I do like the control and speed of cooking with gas compared to my metho run trangia.

Can you put empty fuel cnaisters in the recycling? Do they go in the normal rubbish? I'm refering to the Kovea-type ones.

EDIT by Admin, this post was merged from a new topic into this existing one.

G'day all,

After looking at the Jet Boil Crunchit I realised that the old style can /tinnie openers(church key) would work (it did) cannot release the last sniff of Gas but you can now recycle rather than send them to land fill
corvus

In case of doubt I mean you perforate the Canisters
corvus

So you can't refill and reuse them ????

Cheers.

Yes they are not supposed to be refilled .
corvus

corvus wrote:Yes they are not supposed to be refilled .
corvus

Well, true, they're not "supposed" to be refilled. Of course you're not "supposed" to put a windshield on an upright canister stove, and you're not "supposed" to ever cook inside with a bushwalking stove, but I know a lot of people who do both on a regular basis.

I have been refilling canisters for a year or more now, and it's worked very well for me. Not something to be engaged in lightly, but if one keeps a few things in mind, I don't think it's all that dangerous. Screwing a refiller rig on to a canister of gas isn't very different than screwing on a stove. However, recall that in refilling there is no flame whereas every time you transfer gas from a canister to a stove, there is most definitely a flame.

Things to keep in mind:

• Don't overfill. Know how much the total weight of your canister should be with fuel and do not exceed that weight.
• Use good equipment. In my case, I bought a professionally made rig from Japan. My set up is not some leaky, jury rigged thing that may blow up at any time.
• Use n-butane for refilling. Most if not all canisters for bushwalking are a blend of propane and some form of butane. If 100% n-butane is used for refilling, then the pressure in the canister will always be less than what was originally in the canister. Of course, n-butane needs to be about 5C in order for there to be enough pressure in a canister to run a stove, so this is not a cold weather blend by any means.
• Don't have any sources of flame or heat anywhere near where you're refilling. Obvious, but worth stating.
• Inspect! Don't refill canisters if there are serious defects, wear, or rust.
• Establish a limit. I refill canisters 12 times. Arbitrary? Yes, but that's my "safety consciousness."

Advantages:
Cost. What I have then is a very inexpensive set of canisters for bushwalking. A cuppa? No problem, would you like two? I get 227g in the "long" butane canisters in a four pack at a Korean market near me. Canisters made for bushwalking are about four or five times the price.
Topping off. What good is a canister that only has 15 or 20g left in it? Not much. Maybe OK for a day walk. With mine, when they get low, I just top them up. No pile of 90% used canisters laying about.
Custom filling. If I'm headed out on a trip where I'll need 250g of gas, I don't need to bring a completely full 450g canister of gas. I can fill it to precisely the amount I think I'll need (plus whatever safety margin I feel comfortable with of course). I leave the extra 200g at home so to speak.

HJ

G'day HJ welcome aboard,
I was well aware that some do refill canisters but considered it pointless to mention this especially when it is probably beyond the capabilities or even inclination of most members who unlike us "stove freaks" only own one stove.
As a point of interest where did you source your refill rig from in Japan and how much did it cost please?

As for using up residual gas I weigh mine at the end of every trip and when they get down to less than what I consider to be my requirements for an overnighter they get relegated to "roasting capsicums " at home over one of my el cheapo Chinese burners
Corvus
You are also not supposed to perforate them

Thank you for your welcome.

What do you mean there are people that only own one bushwalking stove? Are you quite sure?

corvus wrote:As a point of interest where did you source your refill rig from in Japan and how much did it cost please?

I paid $43 USD for mine. I bought it from eBay seller world_wide_2009 (I think I bought it in 2009 come to think of it). I want to say that $43 was my total including shipping at the time. I don't know if it's the current JPY-USD exchange rate or what, but the prices are quite a bit higher now. I see that three are currently available on US eBay for $53 USD each. I don't know what the JPY-AUD exchange rate is.

When I costed it out at the time, the purchase made sense. I can get four 227g restaurant industry type butane canisters for $4.00 USD. Bushwalking specific canisters are $5.00 USD each for 110g canisters or $6.00 for 227g canisters. Plus of course there is the convenience of being able to top off, and the convenience of being able to custom fill when I don't need a full canister for a given route.

corvus wrote:You are also not supposed to perforate them

Interestingly, Jetboil is now selling a tool that does just that, perforate the canister so that they can be safely recycled. I suppose it must be safe. Coleman has long provided a tool for puncturing their Powermax canisters, but of course those canisters were aluminum and less likely to spark.

HJ

Hi Jim, Ive linked to your blog a few times from BPL, welcome here.

I was reading rogers idea of pushing a nail through the valve. I'm no stove 'freak' are these cannisters aluminium? ie no spark? I was relating the story of watching a fella crush them under a dropped boulder, i imagined that wasnt the smartest move

Thanks for that link HJ, $37.00 Buy it now price from the same source +$9.00 postage ,may just have to have one of those because at $1.25 Au for 220g Butane it looks good against $7.95Au for 230g of Premium Blend Mix especially with my Stoves with heat exchangers that accept liquid feed.
corvus

I agree with your intital hesitation corv you would need to get the mix and weight right? Any thoughts anyone?? I did talk with another stove freak on here about refilling and was left with the impression that it perhaps needs a full explanation if any??? I'll try to find the link, I read a good discussion somewhere. Meanwhile, watch those eyebrows

So the base ring and valve stem are steel (they rust) but im not sure of the cylinder itself, had another look and a scratch, looks like the whole thing is steel to me... guess there wouldn't be a big potential to spark but...

Follow the instructions in these videos at your own risk.

Nuts wrote:Hi Jim, Ive linked to your blog a few times from BPL, welcome here.

I was reading rogers idea of pushing a nail through the valve. I'm no stove 'freak' are these cannisters aluminium? ie no spark? I was relating the story of watching a fella crush them under a dropped boulder, i imagined that wasnt the smartest move

Thanks for the welcome.

Most canisters are steel unless you happen to have some of the old Primus ones or if you have Coleman Powermax. Personally, I'm a little bit wary of puncturing them unless I'm SURE that they're empty, and even then I'd be careful. I'd attach a stove and open the valve fully (outside, away from flame) immediately before puncturing them.

HJ

corvus wrote:Thanks for that link HJ, $37.00 Buy it now price from the same source +$9.00 postage ,may just have to have one of those because at $1.25 Au for 220g Butane it looks good against $7.95Au for 230g of Premium Blend Mix especially with my Stoves with heat exchangers that accept liquid feed.
corvus

I don't know if this is what you meant, but using 100% butane in liquid feed mode won't buy you much in cold weather. There needs to be some propane to pressurize the canister. 100% has to be kept at least 5C, no matter if the canister is right side up or upside down.

HJ

Nuts wrote:I agree with your intital hesitation corv you would need to get the mix and weight right? Any thoughts anyone?? I did talk with another stove freak on here about refilling and was left with the impression that it perhaps needs a full explanation if any??? I'll try to find the link, I read a good discussion somewhere. Meanwhile, watch those eyebrows

Filling with 100% butane to the stated weight on the canister is no big deal. If the original blend had propane or isobutane in it, 100% butane will always have less pressure. But it will be warm weather fuel only.

If you want to add propane, which would be needed for cold weather, THAT is a whole another story. Screw up on propane, and you can have a very serious explosion. I have not yet been willing to take on that risk.

HJ

hikin_jim wrote:Most canisters are steel unless you happen to have some of the old Primus ones or if you have Coleman Powermax. Personally, I'm a little bit wary of puncturing them unless I'm SURE that they're empty, and even then I'd be careful. I'd attach a stove and open the valve fully (outside, away from flame) immediately before puncturing them.

Yes, most are steel. The old square shouldered Primus cans were aluminum with steel bottoms.

I take a church key to every canister I use. The risk of a fireball is so miniscule.
Come on, how can you refill these things and yet be nervous about puncturing an empty?

I used to crush canisters in the field with big rocks but that had a definate risk -- to my back, and to my feet.

hikin_jim wrote:Filling with 100% butane to the stated weight on the canister is no big deal. If the original blend had propane or isobutane in it, 100% butane will always have less pressure. But it will be warm weather fuel only.

If you want to add propane, which would be needed for cold weather, THAT is a whole another story. Screw up on propane, and you can have a very serious explosion. I have not yet been willing to take on that risk.

What's the volume of one of these canisters? How much head space do they have when full?

The problem with propane (and to a lesser extent isobutane) isn't just the higher vapor pressure, but the lower density and higher thermal expansion. The canisters are designed so that the concave bottoms will invert to some extent but that only gets you so far. Boom!

Orion wrote:I take a church key to every canister I use. The risk of a fireball is so miniscule.
Come on, how can you refill these things and yet be nervous about puncturing an empty?

I've punctured canisters; I'm just careful.

HJ

Orion wrote:What's the volume of one of these canisters? How much head space do they have when full?

As I recall from puncturing a canister and filling it with water, a 227g sized canister holds about 500ml of water. Can anyone confirm that? I hate to go on memory alone, but that sounds right.

I have no idea what volume within the canister is occupied by liquid and what volume is occupied by gas. I fill to the specified weight. If I fill to the specified weight, the proportions of gas and liquid should be OK.

Orion wrote:The problem with propane (and to a lesser extent isobutane) isn't just the higher vapor pressure, but the lower density and higher thermal expansion. The canisters are designed so that the concave bottoms will invert to some extent but that only gets you so far. Boom!

Lower density and higher thermal expansion? Say more about that.

HJ