New overbag query

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New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 26 Feb, 2023 10:00 am

I have a thought about making a new LW overbag using one of those sale quilts from OnePlanet.
Adding in a layer of UL windproof fabric to the stitched though boxing would add a lot of warmth for very little weight penalty. What I'm wondering about is adding on a layer of synthetic insulation, a light layer of APEX either 100GSM or perhaps just 60GSM to give the benefits of synthetics water resistance and quick drying.
I have the 15D UL fabric here and some LW 20D fabric for the bottom, the bottom I would insulate with synthetic, either the 40GSM Thinsulate or some APEX.
The foot end I have a scrap of thick APEX to use up
Interested in peoples thoughts on the height of the foot end box and the best shape for the addition, square or squarish with a rounded top?.
Pix of my old Ultra summit bag after the clean and top-up. With the mistake that OP made it's now massively over-filled and weighs 1440 grams but lofts to a decent amount of insulation and resistant to compression, that's a good thing for the liner of a double or triple bag system.
For scale the cot is a full metre wide and that mattress is a S2S Comfort Deluxe 30" wide
I'd make the base to suit a wide bushwalking mat so keeping compatibility with my Nunatak APEX overquilt
This new bit of gear would be lighter than the S2S Traveller I have used like this in the past but just as warm I think.
Interested in peoples thoughts before I put in an order from RSBTR for the insulation
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 04 Mar, 2023 8:33 am

Nobody here has an opinion or experience with hybrid bags or quilts?
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Re: New overbag query

Postby stry » Sun 05 Mar, 2023 8:12 pm

I don't, but I can offer the following.

I have some experience with trying to stop heat loss via the stitch lines on stitched through bags and can unequivocally endorse your plan for an ultralight windproof layer over the OP quilt.

I have been using the same OP quilt at home for some weeks now and it has minimal loft, which is very easily compressed. I would be concerned that adding synthetic insulation over the OP quilt would diminish what is already the minimal loft of the quilt and turn into a zero sum game, providing sewing practice but very little return.

As stated, I have no experience with modern synthetics in a quilt, but I have used them in one jacket and one mild weather sleeping bag.

I'd go for either the OP quilt OR a synthetic quilt. For a snow camp, I can see the synthetic overquilt having very significant benefits. The hybrid quilt, less so.
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 05 Mar, 2023 9:31 pm

Observation noted.
Nunatak did stop selling the hybrid quilt after only two years but I thought that was because they couldn't get supplies of insulation. There was a thread over at BPL on this subject but I'm no longer a member over there
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Warin » Mon 06 Mar, 2023 3:28 pm

Question

Would 800 loft down be compressed less by weight on top than a 900 loft down??? If so the lower loft down might be better for over bag use. I suspect over stuffing would be of benefit too but the question of what loft would be better for holding up an over bag...
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 06 Mar, 2023 4:04 pm

Due to a large misunderstanding at One Planet when the bag was rejuvenated the Ultra bag I'd use as the inner will be very resistant to compression.
Yes previous discussion on this matter and the consensus was that the bag with the denser fill goes inside it talking about down on down.
So the higher lofting down to the outside.
I've tried an experiment or two here just laying fibre insulation and fabric over the quilt and up to about 100GSM not much compression take place using APEX or two layers of 40GSM Thinsulate plus shell fabric.
I might place an order for 2.5oz APEX if somebody wants to share postage costs, postage for 3 yards is the same as for 5 yards and I only need 2.5, otherwise the low cost option is to use the Thinsulate, it is effective but won't stuff as well so a less compact package.
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Re: New overbag query

Postby stry » Tue 07 Mar, 2023 5:57 pm

Shame about the Ultra. I had a similar experience with excessive overfill many years ago. Lots of air space inside the bag due to the stiffness thus created. Bag was definitely loftier, but not commensurately warmer.

You've got the bag, and you've got the OP quilt, so I would go ahead and get the Apex. Your initial mockup seems to have been promising, and once you have all the exact bits, you should be able to get an even better idea of how the plan will work. If it still looks good, go ahead and start sewing.

As I see it, all you're risking is the cost of the Apex.
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 07 Mar, 2023 7:56 pm

I'd use the 3M LiteLoft I have left but I've heard some pretty damning reports of it's poor longevity due to lack of resilience
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Lamont » Wed 08 Mar, 2023 10:35 am

Have you ordered the Apex yet?
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Warin » Wed 08 Mar, 2023 10:49 am

Moondog55 wrote:I'd use the 3M LiteLoft I have left but I've heard some pretty damning reports of it's poor longevity due to lack of resilience


What else are you going to use it for? If nothing, then you may as well use it for this and see how it goes both as a material and the design of the over quilt.
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 08 Mar, 2023 12:25 pm

It was earmarked as a new summer quilt for the bed, but it is too small for proposed new SuperKing so I might use it for a car camping quilt, much lighter and thinner than the APEX tho. 6mm and 40GSM with no scrim so it needs quilting every 150mm so loosing out there.
This is the stuff I experimented with a while back hand quilting to scrim double layer. I think the continuous stuff is easier to work with and much faster to sew up
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Biggles » Wed 22 Mar, 2023 4:06 pm

How do you actually carry such an enormous, oversized load in rucksack??
No doubt it's not a problem car-based camping, but the pictures suggest quite a challenge is at hand squeezing all that big sleeping bag into a rucksack? :?
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 22 Mar, 2023 4:14 pm

Well it can be a handful I admit, it was much easier when the Ultra was 100% 1000FP down tho, back then it went into an 8/ 5 litre stuff sac, now it needs a 15/12 litre one. But I'd not call it oversized at all, it is actually quite compact for a -25C bag. The overbag is to allow getting down to -40C just in case of another Northern trip and because I can and would make a decent enough summer bag/quilt
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 24 Mar, 2023 10:50 am

Putting in an order for APEX on Monday.
I need 2.5 metres but need to order 3 as they don't do half yards, postage on 5 yards and 3 yards is the same if anybody wants to go halves with me.
PM if interested
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 17 Jul, 2023 9:27 am

Cost of new APEX from America plus the stupidly high cost of shipping and this product from Sweden is actually cheaper if I include my own labour cost
https://us-halite.com/products/overbag-light
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 07 Oct, 2023 8:16 am

" Hello everybody my name is Ted and I am a Gear Junkie"
I've been saving money for a while, buying some new winter gear and I did actually buy one of those Halite overbags.
I asked a question of them before I bought it but there was some language difficulties and when it arrived I found out that my intended mat couldn't be used inside it and it is too small for my Ultra to fit inside it.
While it will fit over a WM Kodiak bag as they said it will only fit over a Regular sized bag with the Regular sized S2S Comfort Lite mat, me being a bit bigger than average they didn't twig when I told them I used a Large mat and sleeping bag, further communication got a promise of a refund or credit when they start making a large but I doubt I'll ever actually receive one.
So I guess I am back to a full synthetic overbag because that down quilt will fit as a booster inside my new Cocoon sleeping bag and as I ordered a Large Cocoon and that new bag being somewhat larger than the Ultra if I make it to fit the Cocoon it will also fit the Ultra.
I now have enough APEX. I got the last bit trans-shipped via a mate in the USA and had it compressed by him to fit inside something else he was sending me.
So back to the drawing board and my late adult fantasy of joining my mates in Canada for a deep winter trip off the PolarBear Express in winter.
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Re: New overbag query

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 17 Dec, 2023 3:49 pm

Just as an added thunk
Would it be better to use a waterproof fabric on the base even tho it would be used inside a tent or cabin.
Procrastination has got the better of me over the last year but I am going to be making this last project. Also I've been thinking about the One Planet sewn thought down quilt in the picture above. I've been using one as my summer bedding and it works quite well inside a cover.
If I simply added in a few loops of cord along the base edges of the fully synthetic quilt I'd be able to add in the down booster if needed.
This will get made, if needs be they can bury me in it
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