Bushwalk Australia

4 of us recently did a few walks in NZ and we all pretty much geared up with new stuff from ground up. Cant do full reviews as there is too much but here’s some quick info

I can give more details on any specific gear anyone is interested in. Combined, we spent about 40k in the past 3 months on gear so theres a fair bit of stuff to get through. Tracks covered included the Wilkins young track, cascade saddle, a few short climbs from aspiring hut, dart track, greenstone, caples, routeburn and Arthurs pass.

We packrafted the taipo river, shotover river, hollyford river and the dart river (where we got rescued by helicopter). I tried to go light and my McMillan was 3kg, basic gear was 6kg, mountaineering gear was 3kg, camera gear was 3kg and packraft gear was 6kg = 21 kg without food and water.

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TENTS: we had perfect weather for the whole 2 weeks in NZ with hardly any wind even on top of Mt Aspiring
• Rocket tent: worlds lightest 4 season tent? Environment was too docile to test this tent’s 4 season claims. As other reviews have stated, condensation builds up but runs down the edges. If you sleep in the middle, you stay dry as you dont touch the edges. Just leave a towel at the bottom.

• Hexamid tent: worlds lightest tent at under 250g all up. No problems with condensation in our perfect conditions. No winds to test it either.

• Gatewood cape + GG the one: both had no problems with our perfect weather and a small amount of condensation where the head area was

• shangriLa 5 awesome space for a group of 4 + gear at around a kilo. Now this is my favourite tent. One evening we were going up a mountain we realised we weren’t going to make it to the top before dark and the terrain was very steep with little opportunity to camp. We found a section of relatively flat ground and there was no way 2 tents could fit but luckily the Shangrila could fit and accommodate us all. condensation wasn’t bad by myself but with 4 guys it did build up. Not a problem for us since we had bivies and an UCO 9 hour candles helped.

• Polycro groundsheet. I have used this stuff many times previously with no problems but on this trip, the sharp mountain tussock grass just cut through it like cheese. In cold weather it seemed to be very crinkly and when ice formed on it, it broke and tore when you lean on it!!! Second problem was that i couldn’t identify which side i slept on the previous night. For example i had bugs, slugs and caterpillers squashed on the underside of the sheet. Then the next night, it was hard to identify which side i slept on and just lay it on the ground.

In the morning, i realised i slept on the dirty side as the slug’s dead bodies from the previous night were stuck to my bivies. You gotta accept some grubbiness when out in the bush but this could have been prevented had it been easier to identify which side goes up or down. I will use a zpacks cuben fiber groundsheet or tyvek next time.

PACKS
• Aarn Natural Balance: hate-love-hate relationship. Finally had it comfy for day trips. Then when i started climbing steep rockfaces, I had the front bar digging into my groin and couldn’t adjust it right. Every time i squat down it would dig in. I will stick with my McMillan for 18+kg, and osprey exos for 10-18kg. I guess I could keep it for loads around 15-18kg but thats a very narrow range so i will likely sell this off.

• Golite Speed. Nothing wrong with it. Weighs 590g but not very comfy for loads over 10kg. I know its designed for speed racing with 5kg loads, but its big enough to shove 15kg worth of gear in so it doesn’t make sense to have a pack this big with such flimsy shoulder straps. There are now 600 gram packs with internal frames that can handle 10kg+ so i will replace my golite soon with a HMG windrider pack.

• Osprey exos 58L: awesome framed pack with ventilation for 10-18kg loads. Out of my 12 packs, this is my pack of choice and a favourite. It has the most features I have ever seen in a pack. It didn’t suit my friend’s back so well.

• MACPAC cascade 75L brand new 2011 version. Sorry blacksheep but i think one planet’s harness is still better. To tighten the waist belt you pull it from center out like a karate belt and this uses your extension muscles. With the OP packs you tighten the waist strap by pushing forward from your waist and use your flexor muscles to push forward and we all found this more ergonomic. The cascade has got quite alot of straps which my friends didn’t know how to use properly. The ice axe loop couldn’t hold our axe securely and kept sliding off. Macpacs Liberator harness is quite good but lumbar support is less significant than OP’s exact fit harness.

• OP McMillan: much is already known about this pack. Performs flawlessly even for packrafting. When i get dunked, the insides get wet but once you tip the water out, it dries out very quickly. Its the one i will fall back on when i need to carry alot of gear.

SLEEP SYSTEMS
• Bozeman Mountain Works Vapr Nano bivy from BPL: 170g roomy bivy fits my full sized neoair well and allowed plenty of room for summerlite to loft up. Kept my sleeping bag dry every night (when i used it) Makes my $300 army bivy and Bibler hooped bivy redundant. One night i was sleeping on a slope so i pegged the bivy down with 2 stakes at the top corners. I found that my movement during the night made the peg tie outs rip apart so its quite fragile. I liked the way the zippers unzip diagonally down for entry.

• WM antelope: untested yet but quality seems even better than the versalite and summerlite and I am very happy with the weight. However i was a bit disappointed with its large pack size. Rated conservately to -12 degrees so i dont think i’ll use it very often. At the rate its going to get used, I got a feeling its going to last me 20 years. I only recommend this if you know you are definitely going into snows alot otherwise its too bulky.

• WM summerlite: this was the best balance between warmth to weight. I am going to get rid of 4 other bags due to this summerlite! With a down jacket and down pants I am confident of using this between -10C to +10C which covers 99% of the camping i do. I’ll add a synthetic quilt later to make it more comfortable around the -10C ranges.

• WM versalite: Tried my friends bag for a night and found it much warmer than the summerlite. However one night he didn’t use a bivy and the bag got soaked from condenation as its material isn’t waterproof. Thereafter the bag lost its warmth AND WAS NOT WARM AT -5C. In single skin tents, you must use this with a bivy especially around the -10C ranges.

• Mountain Designs Dedos 600: you can pay out MD gear, but i was actually surprised to find this bag quite warm and its pertex shell kept water out. Friend got it cheap at $250 so i would say its the best bang for the buck out of the lot. Weighs 1.4kg and rated to -5C and was comfortably taken down to minus 10C.

• Eddie Bauer first ascent Down jacket: replaced my macpac down jacket due to a higher loft being used. This resulted in a wamer but lighter jacket. It was also much cheaper than buying a macpac locally too. I have a long relationship with macpac and will defend it whenever i can, but in case of down jackets, it is clear to me that they loose. In all but the top range and most expensive macpac jackets, macpac looses to international competiton. Brands like Patagonia, PhD, montbell all beat macpac when you compare $300-400 jackets. This down jacket leaked down badly when compressed into a stuffsack. The shell is very water resistant and at no stage did water get into the down. I did not take the WM flash jacket or down pants along as i wanted to test this first ascent jacket.

• Downmat 7 DLX. Super comfy for just over a kilo but sadly i ran out of space in my pack and this is still brand new. No questions this is a warm mat, but I would use it not for the warmth but more the comfort when not going ultralight. For warmth, a few things stuffed under the neoair worked well enough.

Food
• Caldera Cone:wow, this is the first trip where none of us spilt any pots! its super stable. One night we ran out of water and used metho to boil snow. Bad idea. It took 1L of metho to boil 3.5 litres of water and used up all our metho for the remaining part of the trip. Luckily firewood was plentiful. My frien’d has the 1.9L caldera and i found this much more fun around a campfire than my 1.3L. it was easier to feed his fire due to a larger opening.
• One of us had a snow peak titanium bowl, which fits a gas canister well and this was perfect for keeping the canister warm on the cold evenings.
• Packfeather stove. Got this at last minute but didnt take it along as all my meals were boil only.
• Mini droppler bottles. Awesome bit of gear that everyone should get. They come from 5ml to 50ml.
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Packraft gear
• Alpacka packraft: personally taken onto class IV whitewater. A stupid decision for a beginner, but its an awesome bit of gear.

• Packfeather packraft. Any bit of moving water and my friend started freaking out. He ended up doing alot more portaging than i did. For lakes, u cant go wrong. I would say it its even better than alpacka for lakes due to its low cost and smaller pack size.

• Sawyer paddle $260: carbon fibre paddle weighs abit more than the plastic ones but in white water this made life so much easier. Found that the ends of the paddle get scratched very easily. Broke down into 4 parts so it made packing much more compact for me than my friends 2 or 3 part paddles. I wish it had a catcher for drips. This didn’t matter much after you get dunked tho.

• Stohlquist Rocker PFD: this is a very comfy pfd since it wraps around the body. Its packed size was quite large. But it pushed me up better than the Rays Outdoors PDF when i got dunked. Was disappointed with it’s 1kg weight but water safety gear couldn’t be compromised. There is a pocket at the front which fit my GPS perfectly and looked secure but i lost my GPS when i was dunked in the rapids.

• Annaconda’s basic Seak PFD. This is the cheap no frills ugly pfd but my friend who couldn’t swim instantly floated when he was dunked. Its flat so it worked well as a pillow and seat too. Half the weight of my Rocker at 420g

• WRSI helmet: was gonna just use my bike helmet but was advised by Roman Dial the packraft guru against this. Very comfy helmet compared to friend’s osprey helmet. Apparently they’re one of the top 4 brands out there for white water helmets. My head did hit some rocks pretty hard when getting dunked in white water but i felt no pain during the whole ordeal. This stuff works!

• Stohlquist Mooner’s II dry pants: the ankle latex part is super tight and restricts my bloodflow abit. Easy to put on but a real bummer to take off. The waist part has a double skirt that pairs well with a dry top. water virtually cant get in.... that is until you get dunked. After that, its totally useless. Not recommended.

• Extrasport flex plus Dry Jacket: $400 kept me totally dry. Dunked in flat water, dry. Dunked in rapids, dry. Dunked and trapped underwater for a minute, still dry. This is an aweseome jacket. Wrist latex easy to put on and take off but the neck latex choked me when you i first put it on. It stretches after a while. The pocket on the right side is too small and useless to store anything because PFD covers it. The material was found to be very breathable nearly on par with goretex. I originally bauked at the high prices of dry suits starting at $650, but after realising i spent $80 on drysocks, 150 on drypants, 400 on a dry top, i probally would have been betteroff with a drysuit because you dont have to fiddle around with the overlapping waist grips.

• Kokatat Drysuit: i didn’t try this personally but my friend got dunked 6 times and remained perfectly dry at all times. Its got a zipper at the front for you to get in, and also to relieve yourself when required

• Mountain laurel designs “the thing” didn’t use this in nz, but i use it locall for lakes and its perfect. Anything with moving water like a flowing river, and i would skip it to go for the full PFD.

• Pacific Outdoor Ether compact 6: this forms the lining for my packraft. Its a 2/3 mat which takes abit of getting used to if you’re used to full sized mats. It weights nearly the same as a full neoair at 353g but packs quite smaller. I like the long vertical baffles compared to the neoair’s horizontal baffles. For white water, forget this because you’re going to loose it when the raft tips over.

• Various anaconda equipment: total garbage. Gloves ripped within the first hour. Seak booties soles ripped badly the first time i had to portage over rocks. Their denali drysacks let water into my electromic devices.

Mountaineering gear

Packrafts and mountaineering gear generally dont go too well together so i had to make every effort to protect the sharp bits.

• Grivel G12 awesome bit of gear. I got the new classic system to pair with my scarpa SL M3. Storing it in my pack was abit tricky but i used a 2L fruit juice bottle and shoved it into a lowe alpine crampon bag. Maybe some grivel crown point protectors will be a lighter option. It made the snowy sections turn from slippery to suddenly very secure. It worked on rock too but the tips became blunt very quickly on rock. They rust within 3 hours after storage so probally a good idea to treat with anti rust when you get home.

• Grivel G10 (friends) awesome bit of gear. Abit lighter than mine, but perfectly suitable for the job.

• Microspikes: lucky i didn’t bring these along to save weight otherwise they would have been near useless on the steep slopes we faced. They fit well but they’re only suitable for gentle inclines. Any climbing involved and full crampons will be required.

• Petzl Vasak SA crampons: Petzl quality is undoubtedly awesome but in my opinion, i felt that grivels were slighter ahead in terms of quality.
• Black diamond Raven Ultra: Axes weren’t required when we went up the mountains so no real life useage yet. i got the axe protectors and this fit well. However the spike protector didn’t work too well with the shape of this ultra ice axe due to its slant.

• Raven: nice solid ice axe. As with all Black diamond gear, its crap that they make you buy all the accessories separately, even though already charging a premium price.

• Grivel ice axe: (friends) it was found to be cheaper than my ultra but the leash was included and the tip protectors was also included. I had to spend another $50 on top of my axe to get the accessories. Grivel stuff is a fair bit heavier than black diamond’s but seems to be more solid. My BD axe’s instructions came with alot of warning about it breaking in half and shattering after prolonged uses etc etc and to replace it regularly. On the other hand, grivel’s instructions seemed more confident of their gear lasting.

• Ice screws, ice stakes, belays: all unused and untested.

• Overall i found that crampons were more useful than ice axes for terrain that was half rock half snow. So when in doubt if you’ll need both, I will just take crampons.

MISC
• Brunton ADC PRO weather station: very simple and easy to use. NOT waterproof! Mine got waterlogged but it worked again when i dried it in the sun.

• Kestrel 4500NV waterproof. Generally i found both the ADC PRO and the Kestrel gave same results for all measurements so they’re likely to both be accurate. My stupid casio watch gave altimeter / compass readings which were way off compared to the GPS and weather stations. The watch’s temp readings were expectedly to also be inaccurate. I now question its usefulness and this will stay home from now on.

• Tenkara Iwana 12”: to all who doubted me, i prove them wrong. Especially dudes from my fishing club. I caught 4 fish the size of my forearms with this Tenkara. Super easy and super fun. This is always coming with me from now on. There was one eel about 1.5M long and my tippet kept breaking so it does have limitations. Ok, fishermen who hike abit will think tenkara sucks, but hikers who want to supplement their diets or have abit of fun will find this an awesome bit of gear.

• Mountain fitter Cuben fibre dry sacks: super light and i am very impressed they kept everything dry. Found these to be 100% waterproof. Suitable for packrafting.! Our group had about 10 Sea to summit ultrasil drysacks from 1L to 15L. All but 3 of them leaked! So its ok for rain, but submerge them in white water and they’re going to leak.

• Petzl E+lite: pretty ok for short overnighters but for multi day mountaineering trips this didn’t suffice. I was really pi$$ed off with this when it was my turn to use it. After the first night it was way too dim to get stuff done in the dark outside. Its ok for inside the tent tho.

• Petzl RXP: highly recommended. Apparently its petzl’s first regulated light, and one of the few that were compatible with lithium batteries. Highly recommended. I had it on for most of the nights for the 2 weeks on medium and the lithium batteries show no signs of weakening.

• Petzl Tikka 2 plus (friend’s): got the job done i found it was not as bright as the RXP but diffused light well enough to get stuff done. I hate the looks of it tho. It packs easier than the RXP due to its compact nature.

• Steripen Opti: same as the steripen adventurer with its gimmicky led light. Appears to be waterproof with its rubber gasget at the batteries, but get dunked in white water and it dies since water enters the unit at the lamp.

• iRiver T60: needed a mp3 player that could use AAA batteries and i found this! The SE model has a 40 hour battery life compared to the older T60 with a 19 hour battery life. I highly recommend this. Only wighed 50g with batteries and headphones. Very good sound quality and records fm radio too. Dunk it in water and it dies but then it comes back to life when you dry it in the sun.

• Mini scales 90g: i wanted to weigh the fish i caught, and also weigh my pack. This 90g was abit of a dead weight most of the time and wont bring it on future trips

• Stickpic. Awesome for group shots. Wasn’t used very often but the shots i did take with it made it all worth it’s 11 grams

• GPS: Garmin Oregon 300 VS Oregon 450. My Oregon 300 is a year old and when compared to my friend’s Oregon 450, i would say the 450 is definitely better. It seems a tad faster and screen is easier to read in sunlight. I lost my 300 when packrafting so it will be replaced instantly with a 450. Apparently my friend said that the 450 even has a better screen than the garmin 550 which is the version with a camera. The 450’s Compass is tilt compensated so you dont have to keep it vertical for the nivation direction to be accurate unlike in my 300.

• One mate in our group is a surgeon and one is a pharmacist and both recommended betamin with its vitamin B to get over sandfly bites. They said that my berocca wasn’t enough. The pharmacist also got us to take zyrtec as a antihistamine. As a chiropractor i’m generally anti-tablets so i found 80% Deet kept most the flies out. The few that managed to bite through my clothes, i just used paraderm cream to relieve the itch.

• Epirb GME accussat MT410G. We got into abit of trouble (actually alot of trouble) and luckily the Epirb was with me at all times. It was activated, and it found a GPS signal within 5 seconds. I reckon it’s gps receiver is much better than my Oregon GPS receiver. I couldn’t believe it! We’re out in the middle of nowhere and within 5 minutes we heard a helicopter. However after 2.5 hours, the helicopter was still hovering around looking for us since they couldn’t find us. I made a massive bonfire and let the smoke up and got my orange packliner to signal and then they found us in 3 minutes. Apparently the my epirb was indicating that i was on the other side of the valley!!!! Oh well, lucky they found us. I declined to be in the queenstown newspaper as it would just make us sound like idiots but otago times still managed to put is in their paper.
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/137824/hunter-had-broken-leg

• Cuben fibre wallet: more of a fashion statement than anything else i guess. In the past i just used a tiny satchel and dump all notes and coins in but this was definitely nice having a proper wallet to lug around.

• Ourdoor Research Sunrunner hat: in the past i used a bucket hat which worked well with my mossie head net but still occasionally got burnt on my neck. This time i didn’t get burnt and this hat is lighter too. Definitely a keeper.

• OR Peruvian hat. I found this quite good for mildly cold temps since my ears usually get quite cold. The OR gorilla balaclava were too hot to hike in for my recent nz trip but great for when around the campsite.

• RIBZ. Mainly used for fishing and the idea works well. However i was quite.....acutally, no. I was VERY peed when i found out the manufacturer who sold it to me for $65+20 postage, was selling them on ebay for 35+18 postage. I feel ripped off. Fair enough if its someone else, but this is the manufacturer undercutting me. I know its a free market but i still feel ripped. The black ones are pretty crap since the materials fray badly. I spent an hour of my time trying to singe off all the edges. The camo ones on the other hand are awesome since the zippers and fabric are off a much more durable material. It was nice having all my frequently used stuff ready at hand at rest stops even though i dumped my pack on the ground. Definitely recommend the camo ribz

• Compack chair- apparently it fits all 51cm pads, but i found it harder to fit thicker pads. The neoair works but the fit was not very neat like when using a thin prolite 3. Awesome for group camping / nice and easy trips.

I really do apologise to everyone for such a long post, but there really is $40k worth of gear to go through and thats alot of stuff.

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Best gear for 2011: might sound stupid but i discovered these mini dropper bottles of 10ml, 15ml, 30ml etc. Since this discovery, I managed to bring with me a vast array of spices and sauces and luxuries like shaving cream and shampoo without adding significant weight. This is definitely my favourite bit of gear. It seems really funny how most the

FOR 2011
I hope to perfect my sleep system by adding a synthetic quilt on top of the down bag to minimise condensation in the down bag. Maybe wait for the new Hyperlight mountain gear windrider pack to be released and add that to the arsenal too.

No need to apologize- that's an awesome amount of info, and I'm going to have great fun going through it. Thanks!

NP

*&%$#! fantastic review - looking forward to the trip review which should be about four times longer (hopefully!)
cheers
nick

No need to apologise ninjapuppet, this is all very interesting. Can you elaborate on the circumstances leading to your helo evacuation, and where did you find the mini dropper bottles? I've been thinking about using them for a while but couldn't find any.

cheers

Lindsay

Hey Ninja
Next time you go why don't you try to pack a bit more in so that you get your moneys worth for the airfare over

As you know we were following later on the WiIlkin Young circuit-the camp on the first night in the Young basin was probably as spectacular as any I have done -we have done quite a bit in the South Island and I think this walk is as good as any!
I will get my act together and try to put up a trip report
Cheers Rod

Hey ninja thought I had it bad but I think you have polled enough votes to be our next GEARUS FREAKYII club president!!
Well Done on a great effort. Maybe an interesting thread to persue, ie who amongst has the most compelling need to aquire gear and or therapy.
Phil

Awesome summary ninjapuppet. I am green with envy regarding the trip ! Didja get the BPL minidropper bottles ?

I dont tend to accumulate much gear as many do since i dont have alot of space. Anything that is superseeded by a better item, gets sold off.

The mini droppler bottles I am talking about are from various suppliers. I found quality from eBay sellers vary alot. some are very good and some are just garbage even though they are all similar in price. In some of the not-so-good ones, i put soy sauce in the bottle and bits of the plastic started breaking off and disintegrating into the soy sauce!

in some of the better quality ones from eBay, they rival ones from mountain laurel designs such as http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=146

Problem with eBay is that you have no way of knowing which is good or which are not. Second problem is that they tend to sell very large quantities. The MLD ones are top notch but they only come in very small 10ml sizes which i found didnt contain enough DEET for me.

I should probally also mention that BPL's bivy probally comes in at 2nd spot as my fav bit of gear for 2010. 150g in regular and mine is 170g in the long. i just did their tissue test by placing a tissue under it, and a glass of water into a little divit for 24 hours. i just checked it and tissue is still completely dry. i experienced no condensation inside the bivy whatsoever during the 2 weeks, even when sleeping out in the open over 2 nights. I cant say the same about my Bibler Hooped bivy which weighs 5x more. Apparently MLD's momentum bivy is even more waterproof than mine which is made of pertex quantum so theres some cutting edge stuff out there.

Awesome writeup, and sounds like an awesome trip. How's the snow level??

Can't wait to read about your trips! Sounds AWESOME except the evac part....
Really interested to hear how the alpaca packrafts went- did they survive ther rapids well?
Cheers
Lizzy

Hi ninjapuppet,

Thanks for a great gear writeup, and I thought I was a gear freak.

I have a lot of similar gear and to you and your friends, WM Summerlite, Zpacks Hexamid tent, Neoair, Tenkara rod, e-lite etc.

One of my favourite bits of gear is the Tenkara rod, I have had so much fun with it and in season it always goes with me.

With the e-lite I would get yours checked out as I have used mine for a few years now and I have walked at night with mine in poring rain on a rough track, on that night my mate had an old Tikka and the e-lite was just as bright, (I also have two Tikkas).

I used my WM Summerlite two weekends ago in near Mt Kosciuszko and it was great as was my Neoair but it was not that cold.

Tony

Hey Ninjapuppet, do you think the Rocket tent is a true 2 person tent or really a 1 person tent that can fit 2 very cramped people.
I'm seriously considering getting one for next winter, so appreciate first hand appraisals.
Cheers

I actually found out about it first from you tele-whippet. so thank you for making it known to me.
Its definitely more a spacious 1 person tent that can fit 2 people at a pinch. the problem is that the head end of the tent converges to a point so you will be touching the walls at your head with 2 people.
Wont be comfortable for 2 people but if you are mountaineering and dont mind getting friendly with a mate in sacrifice for light weight then its perfect.
This tent and its footprint together seriously weighs less than some bivies, and a bivy will make you feel more cramped than this tent. if you are definitely always going to be camping with someone and for long periods then maybe a larger tent might be a good idea. I would probally take my Jannu tent if camping with a mate for a week.

Each tie down stake has loopes for normal pegs, and a second set of loops for skis which again remind you of the purpose of this tent. while there was condensation on the night i used it, I believe it was mainly due to no wind being present. my wind meter registered 0.2 m/sec winds which is virtually none. Had there been wind and with the vents open i think condensation would have been greatly reduced. even the condensation that was present, it was still less than the other silnylon tents we had.

In regards to the cuben fiber, it feels very different (stronger) than other cuben stuff i have seen. i have a drybag made of the same ct3 material and it is very tough and inspires alot of confidence unilke the cuben in my hexamid tent. The drybag was placed on sharp tussock grass then leant on and no rips or tears resulted. polycro groundsheet had a tear with the same action.

When i set the tent up and staked it down (without the additional tie outs) the tent felt very stable when i tried to shake it. unfortunately good weather didnt allow us to test its claims.

I have just one question:
All up, how much weight did you carry?

I think my pack was the heaviest out of the lot, due to the rafting safety gear.

it was just under 21kg excl food & water.
I had about 3kg of food (mainly freeze dried meals).
water was everywhere so most ever carried was 2L but more usually 0.5L

I estimate it would have averaged 25kg

Tony wrote:Hi ninjapuppet,


With the e-lite I would get yours checked out as I have used mine for a few years now and I have walked at night with mine in poring rain on a rough track, on that night my mate had an old Tikka and the e-lite was just as bright, (I also have two Tikkas).

Tony

Yer, these are generally very good. Most likely the batteries, not ebay as well were they

Ive tried a few different ebay bottles (and tubes) They seem to have not lasted. Either their failings come about straight away or they become brittle over time. Ended up back with nalgene for now.

I would say that it seems you buy ultralight gear so you can carry More gear,, an unusual approach but i do like it...

You should link your ebay seller account on the site....