Bushwalk Australia

I'm having a tough time breaking in my new SCARPA SL M3 boots. So far i've walked about 30km in them. My last walk was 15km on the weekend. The boots are a relatively good fit but I'm having trouble with blisters on the heels. One boot is worse than the other. The problem is generally friction when I am walking up hill. I wear two pairs of socks currently - a woolen Injinji toe sock and a traditional hiking sock. I'm switching to coolmax injinjis with a hiking sock outer since I hope that they will be less abrasive. I'm still waiting for the coolmax socks to be delivered.

The boots themselves are actually 4 years old since I was told that they are a superseded model. Maybe a long shelf life has allowed the leather to get a bit too tough?

A colleague at work suggested wetting them and then going for a short walk in them. I'm not sure if this is a good thing to do.

Any suggestions?

Personally, I avoid buying boots that need breaking in, these days. I've been through too much of that pain before.

However, with my previous boots (some old model of one-piece-leather Scarpas), my very first walk started off with fording a river. Of course this got the boots entirely soaked, and the leather then moulded quite well.

Having said that, it did NOT fix the problem that the boots were too narrow at the front, of course. I spent the next 10 years crushing my toes in them! When buying them, I fell for the line that "they just need breaking in". Never again!

Lol, exactly what I went thru too mate. It's not because your boots are old, its just the nature of those M3s. On your other post - I mentioned that mine took 300 km to wear in.

I posted a link somewhere about a really good book to mitigate blisters which included rubbing your foot with hydrogel beforehand (from chemist), taping up known hotspots, etc.

I have also heared that wearing wet boots help shorten breakin period and should have given that a try Instead of wearing mine for 330km

I reckon you just need to man up abit and stick it out with those boots a lil longer.

More people seem to get blisters from scarpa than any other boot, the only people who don't must have the perfect foot match for the boots.

Mine are in the cupboard and will never ever be worn by me again. They are cursed horrible boots.

Never had any problems with mine, until recently when I got quite wet feet. The rubbing did cause blisters, but thats the only time my Scarpas have given me grief!

a fantastic shoe!!

NOW Raichles on the other hand..... URGHHHHHHH

Same here, never had any problems with mine, but they do take a little breaking in. The wet boot theory works for me and I tend to get a new pair before the others are completely worn out and only wear them for short walks until they are worn in. I.e. wear at home first, then dog walking for an hour a day, wear them wet some times during that period, then short day walks and finally longer walks, usually about the time the others are no longer wearable. Hard to change from your comfy old friends when they last so long, but all good things must eventually come to an end. (I also wear a thin pair of socks and a pair of thick bushwalking socks and tape at the slightest sign of very rare soreness or red areas)

flatfoot wrote:The problem is generally friction when I am walking up hill. I wear two pairs of socks currently

Sounds like they are not a good fit. IMO you shouldn't use two pairs of socks, and in fact this causes boot movement and therefore blisters for me. One good pair of socks that are a good foot-hugging fit, coupled with boots that likewise don't move around is the anti-blister solution for me.

Assuming they actually do fit your foot, I'd tighten them around the ankle area so there is no possibility of excess movement. I also never wear two pairs of socks as I find this promotes blisters due to increased movement of the the boot.

My guess, you've got a boot a little too big due to wearing two socks.

But that's just my opinion.

Never had a problem from mine and never had a blister from any of my three pairs of scarpas (nor have they felt like needing breaking in) however mine aren't the leather ones. I've got a pair of kailash's and my favs are a pair of mustangs (both very similar boots). The one thing I change in them straight away is the inner sole (as the stock inner sole is very thin and looks like it's meant to be replaced with your inner sole of choice). However that being said replacing the inner ain't going to help with the blisters. But I guess it's an important point- have you put an orthotic or thick inner in them? This will put your heel higher in the boot and causes more rub. My hubby has done this by accident (ie always walked in his hiking boots without his orthotics, we did the 6 foot track and he threw his half orthotics in on top of the boots inner for the walk. Viola! Nastiest blisters on heels I've ever seen).

ollster wrote:

flatfoot wrote:The problem is generally friction when I am walking up hill. I wear two pairs of socks currently

Sounds like they are not a good fit. IMO you shouldn't use two pairs of socks, and in fact this causes boot movement and therefore blisters for me. One good pair of socks that are a good foot-hugging fit, coupled with boots that likewise don't move around is the anti-blister solution for me.

Assuming they actually do fit your foot, I'd tighten them around the ankle area so there is no possibility of excess movement. I also never wear two pairs of socks as I find this promotes blisters due to increased movement of the the boot.

My guess, you've got a boot a little too big due to wearing two socks.

But that's just my opinion.

This is also a very valid point too. The two pairs of socks will rub and create friction. I tend to use the injinji coolmax socks on their own and they are great. I like them as I find after a few days of walking I get tiny blisters on the tips of my second toes from rubbing on my big toe (I do this with any shoes). I find the injinjis separate my toes nicely.

The only other thing I can think of is to stuff the heels tight with socks/cloth when not walking in them to try expand the leather. However being scarpas I dare say they've got a very sturdy heel cup and won't budge too easily. good luck though. Keep us posted if something works.

ollster wrote:

flatfoot wrote:Sounds like they are not a good fit. IMO you shouldn't use two pairs of socks, and in fact this causes boot movement and therefore blisters for me.

I firmly believe that one needs to begin by buying a boot that fits, and then go from there. The boot needs to fit the heel firmly, the boot needs to fit the bridge of the foot, the boot needs to fit the toes (width and length).

Provide that the boot is a comfortable fit in the first place, you might like to do some reading about different lacing methods (sites like this one). I used to tighten an loosen my boots continuously. I'd tighten the laces before walking down hill so that my foot didn't slip forward and crush my toes, then I'd loosen the laces off again because my foot would ache when the laces were too tight on the bridge. Then I started experimenting with lacing to find a way of holding the boot tight on my foot but loose on the bridge. Less friction and less foot ache.

Edit: I should have added... I only started experimenting after reading a couple of other topics discussing lacing on this forum. It really does work. Do a search for lacing. Try this link which discusses blisters.

I took my brand new never even tried on Scarpas for a walk on the weekend.
SL M3 as well
From Cynthia Bay to Echo Point, then another 2km, then up to Lake Oenone and up on to Mt Olympus, back to camp, next day up to the ridge to the north, packed up & walked all the way back to Cynthia Bay.
I wore two pairs of Explorer socks.
The first couple of minutes, one boot was pinching at the lower shin, so I loosened the lace a bit. Came right within a couple of minutes.
By the time I reached Lake Oenone I thought I might have had a bit of a blister on the heels, a bit tender but not sore.
Checking revealed no blister or swelling. But for the next day I did do what I normally do when I am concerned about blisters - preventative measures.
Get some of this stuff
Not the bandage, just the tape. About that wide.
Two pieces about 8 centimetres, slightly overlapping and placed horizontally across the heels, and no problems.

I am really surprised at how well my feet and these new boots get along.
This is my 4th pair of Scarpas. I can understand they don't suit everyone, and I don't have a problem with that.
But from what I do with them, I know I don't want to wear a lesser boot.

Thanks everyone for the advice

I'm going to try using Elastoplast-style tape like the stuff tasadam suggested. I had been using Elastoplast band aids but I don't think they are big enough. They also work loose easily. I think bigger strips that are just tape adhered to my heel will stick better and help reduce the friction.

The boots fit quite well which is a big difference to my old boots (the old boots were at least half a size too big). I used to just lace them up tightly and wear thick explorers with woolen injinjis underneath. For my new boots I've got thinner Kathmandu hiking socks that I'm wearing with the woolen injinjis for now.

My reasoning for wearing two pairs of socks is to reduce blisters (worked well with my old boots) and using injinjis stopped blisters between the toes.

I'm also going to look more carefully at the lacing technique.

I might also try wetting the boots and carefully flexing the back of the boot.

I would love to know, those of you who love scarpa boots and those haters as well, do you have wide or narrow feet? I just think maybe they suit one foot shape better than another and maybe save someone from making a costly mistake wen looking for new footwear.

Good question!
I am a lover of Scarpa (the one pair i've owned) and I have an average foot. Not narrow nor wide. Size 10.5 and slightly long toes.

Rogo I have a narrowish womens foot. From what I've seen they make some series really narrow (like the kailash) and others really wide. Stores usually have the chart of which ones which. I know I tried on the ZG65s (I think) and they swam on me. The amount of room for the forefoot was huge. I guess my point is with scarpa boots it's probably best to get them fitted at a shop that know their product well and have a good range as I would imagine if you waltzed into a shop that only stocked the kailash and you have a broad foot you'd be turned off them quite quickly.

I found the following videos that are all quite relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfHvThw2oE4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHbsE89ces&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gJWT8P4OU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

These lacing techniques look interesting and I'll see if I can stop my heels rubbing in the back of my boots. I did check and there is room (just) for my finger behind the heel.

And:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKUVgb6Jnno&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This V technique looks quite good.

I have widish feet and my Scarpas were too narrow for me.

This particular issue with Scarpas has been discussed here in depth before. It seems that they make a range of widths but the wider widths don't always appear in Australian shops, if I remember the consensus from other topics correctly.

rogo wrote:I would love to know, those of you who love scarpa boots and those haters as well, do you have wide or narrow feet? I just think maybe they suit one foot shape better than another and maybe save someone from making a costly mistake wen looking for new footwear.

Put me down as a hater.
My feet are just weird. Slightly narrower than average heel, wide ball, high arches, high instep, prominent Achilles, etc. I thought I was doomed to suffer eternally until I discovered Asolo.

I'm with Nik. If they need to be worn in, they just don't fit properly.

I have walked in Scarpa boots for the last 20 years and their wide BXX last really suits my feet, so I'm very definitely in the happy Scarpa 'camp'. I have always found Scarpas to be well-made boots and they have broken in quite quickly for me. My current boots are Scarpa Treks, which were made on both the BX and the wide BXX lasts. I have never had any problems with them. One pair of wool mixture socks = no blisters.

Scarpa seems to have a number of replacement models for the Treks - the Ranger, the New Ranger GTX and the New Trek GTX, all made on different lasts and none of them the wide BXX. Damn. (The women's models of the New Ranger GTX and the New Trek GTX are made on a BXD last.)

Scarpa's New SL M3 boots are still made on the BX/BXX last though, so I could be saved. I had a pair of old SL's for years and they were fairly indestructible, although I do remember them taking somewhat longer than the Treks to break in, as they were (and are) made of slightly thicker leather. I agree with previous posts though - selecting boots that really suit your feet often takes a bit of time, and sometimes rather painful time!

rucksack

The BX / BXX thing is something that has been discussed before, and is quite relevant. It's a width thing. I would consider my feet to be fairly normal in size, apart from high arches, and a right achilles tendon that gets inflamed to about the size of a golf ball, (tendonopathy or something like that). Only solution is surgery, where they detach the tendon from the bone, clean out all the muck, reattach, then about 12 weeks of pretty intensive recovery. Not something I want to rush in to, as there is no guarantee it won't make things worse.
For now, if it gets too tight on the heel, I remove one sock from that foot, only needed to do a couple of times.
Back on the boots, I heard mentioned once a BXXX (even wider, which would sort a lot of problems for the bigger footed among us), but don't know whether it really is being considered by Scarpa.
Also an important note, I take out the Scarpa insoles and use custom orthotics. (Have I mentioned that before?)
Even if you have normal feet, everyone (IMO) should seriously go and get some orthotics made for your feet, and of a profile to suit the boots.
This post by me has a link to a company that supplies some foam insole things that get moulded to your feet by a podiatrist.
They are in my everyday shoes, which are actually a lightweight steel capped boot as well. My Scarpa's have a "proper" pair of orthotics, made via the plaster cast method. But they are in need of replacement, and they are also not so good due to the foam that helps make them, as the foam absorbs water (previously mentioned) - not something you really want in your boot if you're doing any serious walking.

Poor thing. That sounds like haglunds syndrome+deformity. (retrocalcaneal bursitis and Achilles tendonitis which then calcifies over time). Very painful.
I get the syndrome from excessive running (I used to jog 5-7km a day) and it took years to get it to finally calm down. I've now decided exercise is no good for you except for bushwalking, skiing (although I'd debate that since my knee recon from last years trip), snowboarding and snowshoe adventures

I have a pair of womens Scarpa treks (??) that I have had for 10 years.... silly me decided that just before my 2 month long trip trekking in Nepal that my old hiking boots wouldn't last the distance so I went & bought some Scarpas & tried to wear them in quickly...... well did I pay for that! I got horrendous blisters on my heels in Nepal but was saved by Compeed (blister bandaides) & a nice German man who did my boots up for me for the rest of the first trek . After that they have been great Am not really looking forward to finding a new pair of boots some time in the future.
Good luck!
I have a fairly narrow womens foot & often wear a thin liner sock with a thicker outer
Cheers
Lizzy

flatfoot wrote:And:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKUVgb6Jnno&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This V technique looks quite good.

I tried this V lacing technique. It seems to work and reduces the rubbing of my heels inside the back of my boots when ascending. I tested it out going up The Pinnacles and Zig Zag tracks yesterday on Mt Wellington. Those are rocky and quite rough in places so it was a reasonable test.

Thanks for that. I will try the V-lacing on the top of the boot.

My starting point is slightly different as shown in this modified picture. I takes the pressure off the top of the foot.

Well.. After many years of leather (mostly Zamberlans, which didnt need 'breaking in' anyhow) I finally just spent a week in lightweight Merrell midheight runner type boots. Wow, they were comfortable, even a bit wide they felt good from the start. I noticed the weight difference straight away! Con is that they arent really waterproof (even with a gore liner) and my feet were a bit sore for the first few days. Pro was the weight, they were cooler during the day and that they (actually) dry overnight I once had custom orthotics made to correct gait for my knees, i persisted many times but my arches were in agony. Given their cost I therefore delegated podiatrists to the same basket as used car salespeople (sorry podiatrists)...

I'll need to monitor the other stress points more. I think the pain of hot spots on the heels has prevented me from noticing other stress points

I'm intending on walking the Coast Walk (Royal National Park, NSW) in a couple of weeks. That will be a two day walk and should confirm whether the heel problem has been solved.

Nuts wrote:Well.. After many years of leather (mostly Zamberlans, which didnt need 'breaking in' anyhow) I finally just spent a week in lightweight Merrell midheight runner type boots. Wow, they were comfortable, even a bit wide they felt good from the start. I noticed the weight difference straight away! Con is that they arent really waterproof (even with a gore liner) and my feet were a bit sore for the first few days. Pro was the weight, they were cooler during the day and that they (actually) dry overnight I once had custom orthotics made to correct gait for my knees, i persisted many times but my arches were in agony. Given their cost I therefore delegated podiatrists to the same basket as used car salespeople (sorry podiatrists)...

I have flat feet (surprise surprise) so have never bothered with orthotics. I remember attacking an old pair of shoes with a knife once to cut out an arch support that was quite annoying.

I think i have flat feet, if only they saved me from the youthful mistake that was military service
Just to add something to that off topic topic. I was shown the grad canyon lacing method earlier in the summer. The hooks second from the top are skipped, the lacing taken to the top and then the bow tied back across these second (missed) hooks. With the bow tied there they dont work at the knot/dont come undone and dont loosen.

Which doesnt really help with the scarpas does it...

I'd probably try the wet through technique you mentioned, ive heard it used before also. Packing with newspaper (especially where they are tight) and soaking may help... sorry, not really personal experienced....
maybe your unusuall heavy or wide on the heels also?