Bushwalk Australia

I recently bought a pair of these shoes in size 9.5 for hiking in tasmania. I'd seen a lot of people wearing them and was confident they would do the trick. I told the guy in my local mountain designs store (in canberra) that I was going hiking in Tassie for a month and needed a new pair of shoes. He told me 'if his brother wore them, they must be good'. I didn't know who his brother was, but bought them anyway.

About two days into my hike the lugs where the laces attached on the toe end created an indented sore on each of my feet. As I was in a remote location I couldn't just replace the shoes, so I stuck it out and ende up with infected sores.

Further to this, the shoes began to wear rapidly at the crease point at the toes. After a week there were holes appearing. After the the third week of my trip the shoes were completely wrecked and weren't protecting my feet. The sores weren't getting any better either.

Once I returned to Canberra I took the shoes in for a refund, unsatisfied that they didn't hold up for the 23 days, and that they caused some pretty painful damage to my feet, even through a pair of wooly socks. Mountain Designs sent the shoes to Amer Sports which is the Australian supplier. The shoes were returned with a letter which stated "The shoes...have been used in something more than Trail running or normal everyday wear." Well yes....this is true, I walked in them. Mountain designs refused to offer either a refund, store credit or discount. They insisted that they were only a third party vendor on behalf of Amer Sports and did not stand by the performance or the quality of the product and insisted I follow it up with the supplier myself.

The lesson learnt for me is that if it isn't designated as a hiking boot, any warranty will be immediately void if you use it for this purpose. I guess I should have bought the mid cut version instead. http://www.salomon.com/us/product/xa-pro-3d-mid-gtx-ultra.html The ankle support would have somehow magically have spared my precious toes.

Shafted!! What a joke!
MD'S down here look after their customers much better than that!

I would blame Salamon for not backing up their product.
Did you try to go bush bashing through thick scrub?

I hope you didnt just buy the brand new shoes and headed straight to tassie - Did you try to at least wear the shoes in before the month-long hike?

Ouch, That's nasty.

I've learnt one thing while out and about in the past couple of months purchasing new hiking gear, Is: Don't believe salesman. Do your own research before spending the money, some of these stores will say anything for a sale, MD included. I been shafted by them as well. Told me one thing and find the direct opposite of what was told to me.

One example is a tent I recently purchased from one of the MD stores, One thing I told the Salesman and a very important feature I wanted was a tent I can erect the outer fly first than insert the inner, for those times when it rains heavy, which is a lot up my way. Went to put the tent up that afternoon after parting with my money, tried following the instructions given to me by the salesman, Half hour later, I'm still trying to erect this so called marvellous tent. Eventually I find the instructions sheet in the tent bag, and everything the salesman told me about this tent was untrue. In no way could you erect this tent via fly than inner. You had to first erect the inner than the fly over the top. Went straight back to store and told the salesman, His comment back to me was, Yes you can erect fly first, what you do is stick the poles into the ground than atach the outer fly over the top and clip in the inner. I could not believe what I was listening to. He told me to stick the ends of the poles into the ground as far as you can. I should have than and there demanded my money back, but for some reason, I don't know why, I walked out that shop with tent still in my hands. I think I was shocked. The tent is still sitting in it's bag, I've never used it,

Couple of weeks ago purchased a real tent, one of the Hillebergs, Just spent 4 days hiking Fraser Island and it rained for two days. I'm glad I didn't have that MD tent with me. Do your research first before walking into one of those stores. This is my personal experience I have found with Mountain Design. I know some of you rave about them, But the ones I been to, all they where interested in was getting my money. Sorry if I offended anyone, But this is my situation and how i found there service.

Getting sores on your toes/feet, OK thats gonna happen when your on ya feet and walking everyday.
But for them to fall apart like that?? That is just wrong, I would not be happy if i was in your shoes

Hi abceight,

Your topic headline says it all, they are designed for trail running not hiking. Good trail runners though! MDs can offer you a refund in goodwill at the Canberra store. I'll send you the details in a pm. Phillipsart if you haven't used the tent you should be able to retun it if it is still in it's bag, let me know if you need more information

If anyone ever has feedback on MDs product or services you can always phone Head office on 07 3114 4300 or email them http://www.mountaindesigns.com/about-us/contact-us.aspx. All feedback is welcome!

Cheers
Amanda

Hi guys,
I have owned a pair of these Salamon shoes and thought that they were great.
They lasted about 6 months, which is the norm for me.
However I have gone back to Asic Trabuccos.
Cheaper, last longer, pretty comfy!
I guess different things work for different people, but once you find something that works for you, it's probably a good idea to stick to it!!!!!
(Keeping in mind that no one shoe or boot will work across all conditions!)
I do find the attitude of the gear shops problematic when you try to return something!
A lot of gear is shoddy and falls apart under very little stress.
And it is such a fight to get the shops to replace things at times.
I used to get angry, these days I just go to Fair Trading and adapt the following letter to my purposes:
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/OFT-i ... chType=any
(NSW link)
This type of letter is usually very effective in getting a response.
Melinda

Amanda wrote:Hi abceight,

Your topic headline says it all, they are designed for trail running not hiking. Good trail runners though! MDs can offer you a refund in goodwill at the Canberra store. I'll send you the details in a pm. Phillipsart if you haven't used the tent you should be able to retun it if it is still in it's bag, let me know if you need more information

If anyone ever has feedback on MDs product or services you can always phone Head office on 07 3114 4300 or email them http://www.mountaindesigns.com/about-us/contact-us.aspx. All feedback is welcome!

Cheers
Amanda

Hi Amanda, Sorry I don't mean to say bad things about MD, but that unfortunately has been my experience, Yes, tent is still in the bag, as it was when I left the store. Certainly would be keen on getting my money back if possible. The nearest MD store to me is over 3 hours drive away. Not sure if I still have the docket, I need to search for it, Could that be a problem?

Blisters and shoes falling apart..

That is why I (usually) carry with me some gaffa tape and a small tube of Tarzan grip (or similar) glue.
Franco

Franco wrote:Blisters and shoes falling apart..

That is why I (usually) carry with me some gaffa tape and a small tube of Tarzan grip (or similar) glue.
Franco

Just curious, how do you use this Gaffa tape? Do you apply it onto your feet, or the shoe? I can't imagine how painfull it must be if you apply Gaffa Tape to your skin. I had blister problems for the first time last week At Fraser Island.

Hi
On two trips I did apply that directly onto my feet , courtesy of newly discovered tender areas found by my Teva sandals.
Maybe painful but not as much as my raw flesh rubbing against the webbing.
The first time I was walking mostly in cold water but on a hot day (around 40c) so by the time my brain registered pain I was already bleeding.
(not sure why I did that twice, maybe I was testing how stupid I really am...)
Did the same when I got a few hot spots (this time before they started to bleed) with the Scarpa SL3 (?) again I am not entirely sure why I was wearing those monsters.
With a pair of Salomon not all that different from the ones in this thread I first glued some tape in the mesh area, on the trail (easy walk...) then liberally applied silicone (at home).
It is still there.
The other day I was seam sealing a tent so with the leftover I tackled my beloved almost expired Keen "trail" shoes.
The lags on the side were all peeling off.
looks OK at the moment but I have not used them since the job was done.


Franco

Hi Phillipsart,

No problems, as I said all feedback is welcome and good for us to learn from. It might be easiest if we deal with the return through the Hobart store. We should be able to find your receipt. I'll send you the details in a pm.

Cheers
Amanda

Amanda wrote:Hi Phillipsart,

No problems, as I said all feedback is welcome and good for us to learn from. It might be easiest if we deal with the return through the Hobart store. We should be able to find your receipt. I'll send you the details in a pm.

Cheers
Amanda

Thanks Amanda, I've found the receipt and tried to PM you in regards to this, but the personal messaging feature I don't think is working. I can't get any messages out to you, Main thing, I want to let you know here, is that I found the receipt. I can email it to you if it's any easier.

Phillip

Hi Phillip, I got your message. It will be pretty easy to sort out a refund. I'll pm you. Cheers Amanda

The folks at MD in Canberra have refunded my Salamons in good faith of my purchase made in error. They have since sold me a more suitable pair of shoes for my activities. Thanks Amanda for your help.

Out of interest, here's a picture of some Vibram soled Saucony shoes I've repaired using fabric tape and 2 part glue...

They lasted pretty well and drain better than most shoes. Not any more now that I've taped and glued the perimeter of the toe. Running repairs on shoes in Tassie need to pretty good to stand up to constant mud, creek crossings and/or saltwater and jagged rocks that can occur on some trails. A bit of fabric tape has always helped with my feet though.

"Now THAT, is art!"

No problems

Which shoes did you end up getting?

Not to sound harsh, but... there are so many threads on this site with hints on appropriate footwear for Tasmania, why do people still end up coming along in sneakers? (bad MDs advice aside, surely it's obvious these are not walking boots?)

Can we please get a sticky thread on "appropriate footwear for Tassie walking?" it can go next to the "what will the weather be like?" thread.

ollster wrote:Not to sound harsh, but... there are so many threads on this site with hints on appropriate footwear for Tasmania, why do people still end up coming along in sneakers? (bad MDs advice aside, surely it's obvious these are not walking boots?)

Can we please get a sticky thread on "appropriate footwear for Tassie walking?" it can go next to the "what will the weather be like?" thread.

The saucony shoes I posted with repairs lasted a full traverse of the Arthurs no problem. They were repaired prior to another hike I undertook almost a year later. The thin synthetic turned out to be durable but the mesh eventually scuffed apart. With the Salamon shoes I was not so lucky. A lot of people wear Teva sandles on the South Coast. John Chapman's guidebook to the South West suggests wearing sneakers in summer but carrying two pairs. I wouldn't rule out sneakers over boots. My Highmark Taipan leather boots get holes in them too....The only difference for me is weather you like sticks and dirt falling in the top and of course the durability of the specific design. And of course, you can run in runners too if you have to.

Amanda - I got a pair of Zamberlan Zephir GT mid cut boots. I'm only wearing them around the house at the moment on Domma's advise. She's ordered in a pair of Salamon leather mid cut boots in my size in case these one's don't suit my feet. So far very happy. They will get me through the Canberra cold season too I'm sure.

I've also had a pair of these shoes and found them to be comfortable and stable shoes, although not as durable as I would have liked. Having said that, I experienced nothing like the problems you experienced but it would seem from your reports that you barely wore them, if at all (to ensure they fitted correctly), before you left for Tassie and also used them well outside the intended use of the manufacturer (trail runner - i.e., for use running on trails, not off-track) in Tassie? If that's the case, do you think it is then either fair or reasonable to slate the manufacturer for the shoes rubbing your toes or falling apart when used in more extreme conditions than the manufacturer intended? IMHO at some point you need to take some responsibility for your own decision making , a one month trip with off-track walking in Tassie is hardly the place to trial a brand new pair of trail runners!

I think Zamberlan boots are great, I got a pair of Zamberlan Vioz GTX M, I plan to wear when I walk the Overland track. Still wearing them into my feet.

abceight wrote:The saucony shoes I posted with repairs lasted a full traverse of the Arthurs no problem. They were repaired prior to another hike I undertook almost a year later. The thin synthetic turned out to be durable but the mesh eventually scuffed apart. With the Salamon shoes I was not so lucky. A lot of people wear Teva sandles on the South Coast.

Lasting one well tracked walk isn't really a sign of appropriate footwear! I've just had to replace a pair of Scarpa SL-M3 which are about as hard as you can get. I got them for Xmas 2009, they have lasted about 14 months (about 65 days of walking if my memory is right, mostly off track) and I scrub and dry (slowly) and condition them after almost every walk. Point is - Tas walking can thrash the *&%$#! out of footwear.

Sandals, well I guess you could, but they offer zero ankle support and one stick buried under the mud, slicing through your sock (if these are used), into your foot could spell the end of the trip... and this seems to mean these days pressing "the button" and a free helicopter ride. This in turn leads to getting "dumb walker of the week" award.

Seeing your footwear is just about the most important piece of gear (pretty hard to walk around without!), pissing around with sandals or running shoes is a recipe for disaster.

Jellybean wrote:do you think it is then either fair or reasonable to slate the manufacturer for the shoes rubbing your toes or falling apart when used in more extreme conditions than the manufacturer intended? IMHO at some point you need to take some responsibility for your own decision making , a one month trip with off-track walking in Tassie is hardly the place to trial a brand new pair of trail runners!

I bought some shoes for hiking, they fell apart after about three weeks, I returned them.

Having said all that you are still right. They are trail runners not designed for hiking. Read the title of the post.

abceight wrote:

Jellybean wrote:do you think it is then either fair or reasonable to slate the manufacturer for the shoes rubbing your toes or falling apart when used in more extreme conditions than the manufacturer intended? IMHO at some point you need to take some responsibility for your own decision making , a one month trip with off-track walking in Tassie is hardly the place to trial a brand new pair of trail runners!

I bought some shoes for hiking, they fell apart after about three weeks, I returned them.

Having said all that you are still right. They are trail runners not designed for hiking. Read the title of the post.

With all due respect, you're missing (or avoiding ) the point. If you bought the shoes far enough in advance of your trip then you would have discovered before your trip that: A. they did not fit comfortably (causing blisters, which you complained about in your initial post) - poor fit is not the fault of the manufacturer; and B. that they were inappropriate for your intended task - again not the fault of the manufacturer. (I assume that you did some specific preparation for your month long walk?). As per my previous email a remote location for a month long walk is not the place to trial footwear that you have never used before (no matter what the MD salesperson told you). That's just common sense!?

I cant see from this topic where the 23 days were or how many in advance of a bushwalk or in Tassie or if they were pack carrying or day walk days?
I think I would be disappointed that they fell apart even carrying a pack, they dont look that durable even as trail runners? looks like a lot of uphill or campsite squatting?

ollster wrote:

abceight wrote:

Seeing your footwear is just about the most important piece of gear (pretty hard to walk around without!), pissing around with sandals or running shoes is a recipe for disaster.

I find this rather offensive as I love wearing runners on the WA for example. So much lighter, walk longer with less effort and dry out so much faster than boots. I have done the WA twice.

under10kg wrote:

ollster wrote:

abceight wrote:

Seeing your footwear is just about the most important piece of gear (pretty hard to walk around without!), pissing around with sandals or running shoes is a recipe for disaster.

I find this rather offensive as I love wearing runners on the WA for example. So much lighter, walk longer with less effort and dry out so much faster than boots. I have done the WA twice.

Oh well, sorry you're offended. Runners don't offer a great deal of protection for your foot, hence I think they are not a wise choice. I have walked offtrack in shoes before, and they are lighter, but you do have to be careful of foot placement, they don't provide good grip in some circumstances (walking on button grass they can be quite slippery), and they certainly get chopped up much quicker, and in the case of "runners" could easily be punctured in the side by a stick or rock, thereby incapacitating the user. They also have no ankle protection (obviously).

Just for reference, there is a rather long topic from long ago that debates shoes vs boots for bushwalking here.

Shoe choice is a matter of opinion. I started this post because I was unsatisfied with the quality of the shoe and the way it was handled by the vendor and manufacturer at time of purchase and return. I certainly am not interested in having someone else tell me what to wear on my feet. Not everyone can blow $400 on a pair of shoes. I would consider that quite a privelage. At the other end of the scale, plenty of people get by with a pair of volleys.

ollster wrote:I've just had to replace a pair of Scarpa SL-M3 which are about as hard as you can get. I got them for Xmas 2009, they have lasted about 14 months (about 65 days of walking if my memory is right, mostly off track) and I scrub and dry (slowly) and condition them after almost every walk.

Seeing your footwear is just about the most important piece of gear (pretty hard to walk around without!), pissing around with sandals or running shoes is a recipe for disaster.

Yikes! $500 shoes lasting 65 days?
which part of the shoe fails first? I noticed just wearing strap crampons for a day the front of the shoes were fairly abraded, but I didnt realise off track walking was that harsh on shoes. Wouldnt gaiters give a good amount of protection to the top half?