Appropriate footwear for Tassie walking

[Nuts]

Anyway, I honestly have no idea, I would have said full grain leather boots from a reputable brand (preferably italian Made). I would have said that twenty years ago based on what others told me, likely based on what others told them...

I would have said the same a couple of years back based on the fact that these were all I had even worn. Scarpas, a couple of cheaper brands then for most of that time Zamberlan boots. Never really convinced by the comments of ankle support (I sprained my ankles many times in full height boots) I did still think boots were preferable in mud and around rock for ankle protection (from scrapes or whatever was under mud).

If only for the sake of our walking tracks I should probably still put my two cents behind boots as ive always noticed people more likely to trudge through puddles that are visibly boot height or less.

Maybe its the cost of footwear or maybe we are becoming more 'feline' by nature. Maybe motivations are governed more by fashion than any real yearning for the intrinsic value of 'going bush'?

It does seem that no matter how well pleaded the case for going through mud, if others have visibly gone around then its like banging your head against a wall trying to get most people to do otherwise. Ive just followed a group through a wet Overland week and it really nags me that people waste so much energy skipping either side and around puddles even in $400 boots made to go through... When all patient thoughts are passed out I find myself biting my tounge, they are 'guests' afterall, 'parks' should fix the @%^^%#^# tracks instead of wasting money elsewhere... i try all sorts of ponderings to help hold back an angry outburst...

Anyhow... personally, with ever-failng knees I had lately been trying mid cut runners. Solid boots may prevent ankle bashing but I'm not (as mentioned) convinced that they stop sprains. More to the point I have noticed that they can hold the lower leg 'stiffer' which I think puts a lot of unnecessary strain on the knee...

Whilst the flexible runner style aren't waterproof and i'm still a bit dubious about plunging into deep mud perhaps they do allow a more natural range of motion. i have a pair of innov-8 low trail runners but havent tried them (in the bush) mostly due to carrying heavy packs and the lingering ingrained thought that i may get some ankle support (aside from protection) from mid height runners.

Obviously, anything relied on for remote walks needs to be well tested but for me the verdict is out on what more can be said about 'appropriate' footwear, even in Tassie..

What say you?

[ULWalkingPhil]

I own a pair of Zamberlan Vioz GTX M, purchased a few months ago, I plan to wear when I walk the Overland track.
Still wearing them in. They are fine around the house and on short walks and at work, but the walk I did last week at Fraser Island with 20kg pack, after only 10km I started getting blisters on my heel on both feet, left feet was worse the right.
For the rest of the walk, I had to wear Croc's and tied the boots onto my pack. Want to get these blister problems on my heel sorted out before I go to Sydney in 4 weeks time, and certainly before the Overland Track next season.
Plan to do a lot of walking in and about Sydney.
I don't know why I got the blisters, I had two socks on and tightened the boots up as much as I could around the heel, Maybe I had them to tight if that's possible, I don't know, can tying the boots up to tight cause blisters?

[Nuts]

Is it lower heel? The first thoughts (unfortunately) Phil are that they are still a tad big for you? There must be some movement/friction happening to cause the blisters? Mine (Skill GTX, same thing as Vioz not as high cut) have always been fine straight from the box into the bush. You could try more socks (just to be sure) Ive always bought size 43 which (for me) with two socks mean a tight index finger fit behind the heel when my foot is kicked forward into the unlaced boot.

[tasadam]

Scarpas, and straight through the middle!

[ULWalkingPhil]

Is it lower heel? The first thoughts (unfortunately) Phil are that they are still a tad big for you? There must be some movement/friction happening to cause the blisters? Mine (Skill GTX, same thing as Vioz not as high cut) have always been fine straight from the box into the bush. You could try more socks (just to be sure) Ive always bought size 43 which (for me) with two socks mean a tight index finger fit behind the heel when my foot is kicked forward into the unlaced boot.

A inch and a half from the bottom of my heel the blisters started. I'll try another pair of socks. I had two on at the time. My feet are not what you would call normal size, I have wide feet, getting shoes to fit me is very difficult. The boots I got are the best fit I could find, They feel very comfy, I can wear them all day long at work and not have a problem, I don't walk all day long at work, most of the time sitting down.
Width are a perfect fit. Next size down the boots where causing lot's of problems with my toes being squashed in.

With two socks on I'm the same, I have a tight index finger fit behind the heel with boots unlaced, I've been fitted by the lads at the Mountain Design store in Sydney as well as the Gold Coast Store and they both believe these are the correct size for me. They do look big though. They are a huge boot. My feet by the end of the day, do feel a bit hot particularly the backs of my heel. I noticed before the blisters started on the walk last week, my heel felt really hot. It was a very hot day. I'm surprised I got the blisters. They feel like a good fit. I'm a bit baffled by this one.

[ULWalkingPhil]

An update to what I wrote above, just out of curiosity, I went and tried the boots again with two socks, this time I took of the shoe laces, Done the same thing as above with the finger test behind the heel, and my finger fitted in with no pressure, it was a easy fit. I than tried 3 socks, and done the same test and I could still get finger behind heel, but not as loose with just the two socks, I'm guessing that these boots probably are a little long for me, but like I said before, the next size down where way to constricting on the side of my feet, because I have wide feet. They are the best fit I could find, I really wanted to purchase the Scarpa M3 SL boots, but they where way to tight on my feet.

I have an idea, I might look into seeing if I can find something I can put behind my heel, Something rubber I guess. It might do the trick for me.
Need to get this sorted out for my Overland Trip, which might be sooner than planned.

[ninjapuppet]

Mate, it appears your shoes dont fit you.
They are certainly not cheap, so you probally dont want to suddenly chuck them out just yet. maybe tape up hotspots or apply hydrogel.

I'm doing a mountaineering course in canada next month and despite common perception over here about 2 pairs of socks reducing blisters, over there they said its a myth! Its worked for me so I'll keep doing so, but then again - i dont usually get blisters.

[Nuts]

From what ive seen/found they are as tough, perhaps even longer lasting than the SL. Ive (found and) seen comments about the Scarpas taking longer to 'break in'.
I guess your feet are just wider than high or long. When i first fit my Zamberlans they are tight around the forefoot but not so tight to feel uncomfortable. They do also relax (width wise) a bit with wear.
Taping your heels may be a hassle each time but might work...


A good point (for the topic) from this is that you have been wearing a boot around that is commonly known as 'easy wearing' and it wasn't until an actual bushwalk that you started to find problems?
(and how different feet can be...)

[ULWalkingPhil]

I've purchased some Bodyglide, I'm going to try that, I did have my heels taped up for the walk as a precaution, but I don't think I used the right tape, it might have been to thin. Because these boots cost me so much, I have to make do with them and sort out this issue.

Yes, It was not till I walked 8km with a 20kg load on my back, when I started noticing the blisters beginning to form on my heels, as soon I noticed that, within 2 km I took the boots off and wore my Croc's, which worked a treat on the sandy tracks at Fraser Island.

[Nuts]

Scarpas, and straight through the middle!

Have you tried/had thoughts on anything else? (Footwear that is, not going around mud holes )

[hikingoz]

I've worn trail runners in Tasmania with mixed success. They don't last as long. Shoes that drain well can be quite comfortable when walking in deep mud and puddles. Obviously low cut Goretex shoes are useless. My fav pair of shoes to date are a pair of Saucony Progrid Xodus sneakers. I've also done a lot of walking in Australian made Highmark Taipan boots which are pretty much waterproof and very comfy but I havn't worn them in Tas.

I find low cut shoes much more comfortable with a <20kg pack. FInding the right pair has turned out to be a bit of a guessing game when it comes to durability.

[tasadam]

Yeah, I knew my post was brief and not addressing all the issues of your post.
I tried walking shoes once, and I struggled heaps. I don't think I will ever shift from Scarpas. While I can afford them, anyhow.
Perhaps I'm different, but I find the ankle support helps me a lot.

[sthughes]

I find shoes okay for shorter walks with no/minimal pack and when on a decent track (probably okay for me on most of the OT ifwith a very light pack and not skipping huts). Otherwise I really struggle with sore feet and rolling ankles.

Slightly off topic I have just switched from full leather Scarpas to a pair of Keen Oregon PCT boots. I am finding them fantastic, especially on track, but also quite okay off track. Overall I like them significantly better than my Scarpas (which I didn't really have much of an issue with either). Im sure they won't last as long, but I got them from the US for less than half the cost of any full leather Scarpa, so I don't care. No break in either - first walk was 5 days.

Edit: I take it back, after no more than seven days they now leak like a sieve Must have a "Keen Wet" membrane, not the "Keen Dry" one.

[Nuts]

I know Adam, with a search, most of the aspects of footwear have been discussed before (even without looking elsewhere).

Anyhow...With some spare time and in the spirit of sharing experiences n all that, just discussing without giving opinions or conclusions... I guess that can happen on a forum (like it would in a proper conversation...)

I first sprained one ankle playing footy. When I started guiding I was regularly carrying 30+kg packs. My first real bushwalking boots were Bunyips and i'd had them a few years.
I remember a stumble near kitchen hut, it was such a bad sprain. I sprained the outside of one ankle and somehow managed to sprain the inside maybe by overcompensating before I fell. I couldn't 'flip' in time and also managed to fall heavily on a shoulder with the full weight of the pack. Trailing behind the group, I had no time to waste and just had to struggle on. By the next morning both sides of my ankle were black as well as my upper arm from the pack strap to near the elbow. To this day I still have the broken capillaries from that to remind me (almost 20 years on).

Perhaps it helps understand why a person becomes dubious about long held beliefs. I thought at the time it was the boots. While they were always tightly laced I wasnt so confident in them stopping sprains any more. I went on to Scarpas then Zamberlans but sprains kept happening despite the type of boot or lacing technique through ankle supports and using orthotics.

The last several years with tender knees I can actually feel the pain from pressure of boots holding my lower leg 'straight', something that just doesnt happen in everyday runners, shoes etc. I dont know whether someone without knee pain can appreciate this. For that matter perhaps someone who hasnt had ankle trouble cant really grasp what boots actually do for ankle 'support'?

So... its obvious where my own experiences are telling me to lean.... though i am a notoriously slow learner

(also as I said, i still am not sure what is 'appropriate', carrying extra weight is an unnatural act so that makes good old bare feet a hazy area The staked foot ollster mentioned probably is a 'con' for anything too light in deep muddy poorly (previously) maintained tracks with all their wire and sunken boards, never gets much press.. Is that enough of a reason to do a whole walk in heavy boots..is the risk of contributing to knee damage outweighed by this... would I advise anyone that my situation would also be appropriate for their decisions... )

Its interesting after all the discussions of this what our lightweight cousins discuss in advising someone in a similar current topic:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... 252#374252

[Liamy77]

here in hot, dry climate (WA) i wear shoes called "5 finger kso treks" really silly lookin but SO COMFY!!! just go slower n look more in rougher terrain..... vibram soles but thin enough to be flexible...
dunno... tend to wear lace-up leather boots in tassie - too cold otherwise... make em my camp shoes then.... and yeah ya get some odd looks here n there

[ollster]

here in hot, dry climate (WA) i wear shoes called "5 finger kso treks" really silly lookin but SO COMFY!!! just go slower n look more in rougher terrain..... vibram soles but thin enough to be flexible...
dunno... tend to wear lace-up leather boots in tassie - too cold otherwise... make em my camp shoes then.... and yeah ya get some odd looks here n there

If they came in size 11 with an XXXXXXXL sole I'd wear them just to make yowie prints all over the place.

[Liamy77]

im a size 43 in euro sizes.... sounds bigger than Aussie 9.... maybe a pigmy-yowie or perhaps tassie bunyips r smaller??

[sthughes]

Saw a guy on the Lees Paddocks track with them, he was happy with them. But he was only doing a spot of fishing an hour or two from the car, not carrying anything except a rod.

[hikingoz]

I've got a pair of KSO Treks. I do a bit of walking, climbing and short trail runs. The weakness of the shoe is thin fabric between the toes, even on the tougher KSO Treks. Any serious walk would have toes poking through the gaps in no time. If there was Kangaroo leather between the toes as well, they'd be ok...

[Liamy77]

yup i agree - only light loads & tend to pick long grass out from between toes a bit...
but love em - better with socks for extra padding / less slip when wet - but you may have to change your walking style a little (usually a little slower/ tailored to the terrain)
I think vibram between the toes would be better, and slightly thicker leather .... nice to hear i'm not the only oddly shod person around.

[cjhfield]

I walk in traditionally made leather boots. Modern lightweight boots seem to be made like a heavy running shoe and can catastrophically fail due to degeneration of the foam layer above the sole. I have had this problem twice. What made it dangerous was that at the start of the walk there was no sign of a problem but 2 days later the whole bottom of the shoe/boot fell off with no prospect of fixing. On more traditionally made soles I have used bits of wire and once a tentpeg to stop glued soles separating - at least I could walk out. I think the more remote the area you are going into the more reliable your gear needs to be.

I may have been unlucky but the boots were different brands and one of them had had very little wear and degenerated just sitting in a cupboard.

Chris

[ollster]

Modern lightweight boots seem to be made like a heavy running shoe and can catastrophically fail due to degeneration of the foam layer above the sole.

Totally agree with the above post. Too much "latte bushwalking equipment" on the market.

[Nuts]

Though as this doesn't happen with everyday use, even with just runners, I'm guessing its from the extra weight of a pack? How heavy were your packs at the time cjh?

[doogs]

Yeah, I knew my post was brief and not addressing all the issues of your post.
I tried walking shoes once, and I struggled heaps. I don't think I will ever shift from Scarpas. While I can afford them, anyhow.
Perhaps I'm different, but I find the ankle support helps me a lot.

I am a Scarpa fan myself, if you work out how long they last for the price I they are great value. I bought a top of the range pair in Scotland in 1994 for 130 pounds and they are still going strong(ish).

[Nuts]

In that time Ive had:

* 1 pair of (already half worn) Bunyips
* 1 pair of SL's (tough as but stiff for a long time)
* 1 pair of Fabric scarpas (lasted half a summer)
* 3 pairs of Zamberlans (similar life to SL's but far more supple) (one pair is still around half-life)
* 1 pair of Merrell Moabs (about half life also)

They all seem to eventually go by splitting through behind the toe though (long before anything else wears out), likely from lots of squatting around campsites. Still on original set of knees maybe the Italians make some

[ILUVSWTAS]

In that time Ive had:

* 1 pair of (already half worn) Bunyips
* 1 pair of SL's (tough as but stiff for a long time)
* 1 pair of Fabric scarpas (lasted half a summer)
* 3 pairs of Zamberlans (similar life to SL's but far more supple) (one pair is still around half-life)
* 1 pair of Merrell Moabs (about half life also)

They all seem to eventually go by splitting through behind the toe though (long before anything else wears out), likely from lots of squatting around campsites. Still on original set of knees maybe the Italians make some

why 3 pairs of Zamberlans Nuts?? Do they die fairly quickly?? Or do you like them so much you bought 3 pairs?? How do they last compared to the SL's??

[doogs]

hey all seem to eventually go by splitting through behind the toe though (long before anything else wears out), likely from lots of squatting around campsites.

Maybe a change of diet might help.

Mine are a semi rigid pair designed to take quick fitting crampons so don't have much chance of that happening. Heavy though.

[Nuts]

ha ha yer, i knew there would be a joke in there somewhere..i'm actually relatively 'retentive' lol
They are heavy, that never worried me much, always thought my legs would just get bigger..

I really did notice the change recently with the lightweight Merrells, reminded me of the spring in my step from distant past, soon wore off ( ) but the amount of energy to move heavy boots (especially when wet) was noticeable after so long using them.

Iluv, the Zamberlans ive been using are a bit lighter than Scarpa I bought them initially cause they were the best boot stocked here at the time. The three pairs lasted each as long as the Scarpa (if not a bit longer) ie maybe 2/3yrs worth each of track wandering for parks and/or guiding. I have an idea how long they will last now so gave the last pair away in time.

I'm thinking that they would all have lasted a Lot longer if it was mainly distance walked as day walks or maybe with a pair of camp shoes but cooking for groups means a lot of 'squatting' n that..

[under10kg]

I use new balance runners and plan to try to get a pair of innov runners that might even fit me.
The big disadvantage of runners is that they wear out much too quick and they are not too good on ice.
I do note that you can get inov runners for $99 with no postage from another post.
I do walk with quality light gear that makes use of runners easy. I just returned from a 9 day walk in Tasi with 14 Kg with a Aarn pack with balance front pockets. With a super light pack like the g4 the weight would have been 12 kg.
I turn up to a hut and pick up the boots that are soaked and compare the weight to the runners!! I did walk through 1 foot of snow at Walled Mountain with no issues of cold feet as long as I kept moving but I was in sunny weather.
Runners soaked dry out in a few hours of walking.

[alliecat]

The big disadvantage of runners is that they wear out much too quick and they are not too good on ice.

Well, that depends. I've used the Inov-8 mudclaws on ice and they were great! They have lots of grippy lugs and surprised me with how well they gripped on ice.

Also, if I know there's going to be ice/snow I take the Kahtoola Microspikes. They work great with all my inov-8 shoes and they are pretty light really.

But i agree about the wearing out too quick bit. Runners will certainly cost more in the long run than a pair of really durable boots, but I'm happy to pay that cost for the increase in comfort I get.

cheers,
Alliecat