Bushwalk Australia

G'day all,
I've started to look into a lighter weight overnight pack, as an alternative to my Cascade 75 - which although it is a fantastic pack, at 3kg it's a bit excessive for shorter/lighter overnighters - I'll leave it for the multi-days. I've formed a bit of a criteria, listed below - and I'm interested in getting some input from you learned gentlepeople.

I would avoid the serious ultralight packs - as it must also be fairly rugged, and I gather that in attaining those sub-1kg figures, the material durability / wear resistance would lose out. And it's needs to be available locally to Sydney/Newcastle - I don't want to risk getting it from overseas and finding the harness doesn't fit right.

Purpose: Lightweight and Rugged Overnight Pack

Main Criteria:
Capacity: 35 - 45L
Weight: 1.0 - 1.3kg (1.5kg max)
Material: Above average grade nylon (~420D+) or canvas (for wear resistance / durability)
Style: Minimalist (no frills) and packs flat when unloaded (for ease of transport in larger luggage)
Design: Top loading with good compression options - more like an alpine pack than a hiking pack.
Availability: Must be availble to try on at a local (Sydney/Newcastle) stockist
Price:~$200

Secondary Criteria:
Aluminium hooks / buckles over plastic buckles
Inherently water resistant or waterproof
Tall and thin over short and squat (to suit ~65cm long tent)

Main Potentials:
Exped Backcountry 45 (Seems perfect design - but $300!! New design, user reviews hard to find)
Osprey Mutant 38 (harness does not feel quite right)
One Planet Umbra 45 (no local stockist - Kelly's Basecamp and Trek n Travel don't stock this model)

Secondary Potentials:
One Planet Vertex 38 (heavy at 1.7kg)
Osprey Hornet 46 (seems insanely light at 680g - material possibly too lightweight)
Osprey Exos 46 (frame does not allow for flat-packing)
Macpac Amp Race 40 (material possibly too lightweight)
Macpac Torlesse 35
Macpac Kakapo 35 (Minimalist with AzTec fabric, but design might not suit tent length)

Questions:
Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with these packs I've listed?
Does anyone have any other pack recommendations that also fit the Main Criteria?
Does anyone have any experience with Exped packs? The Exped Backcountry 45 is my current #1 potential - but user reviews are scarce, and at $300 - it's $100-$150 more than most other packs in the list!

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Cheers,
DropBear

If you are visiting Trek n Travel have a look at the Wilderness Equipment Contour (43L). I bought mine there and they usually have one on display. It appears to meet the majority of your criteria. I got one primarily for day use but I would consider it for lightweight overnight trips if I can eventually condense/lighten some other gear. It can be packed flat and quite small so you could get it inside a suitcase if need be. I used it as aircraft hand luggage on a recent trip to Tassie cinched down to its most compact size. Expanded to maximum capacity its fairly cavernous, definitely rugged (water-resistant reinforced canvas) and not too heavy (1.15kg). No frills design and I've found the simple harness comfortable. I paid about $110 for it on sale but usually around $140 I think. Not sure about internal length for your tent but my gut feel is that it would fit. I can have a look at mine tonight and get a better idea.

http://www.wildequipment.com.au/daypack_detail.php?Code=WECONT

http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/products/specialdeals/hmg-2010windrider-ultralight-pack.html\

I got the newer version, but its not much different to this version which is on sale now for $175

The 40L fits your criteria.
Cut off the webbing net and it weighs 500 grams
The cuben material in mine is a burly as any canvas Ive seen.
Its rainproof so you dont need a pack liner or pack cover.

I initially didnt find it as comfy as an osprey exos, but then have grown to like it more and more considering I dont carry huge weights and it weighs only half to 1/3 of most other "light" packs. Its now the only pack i use for overnighters, and I dont feel a need to take it off when i take a 1 minute break (which I usually do going uphills)

Ive got another 4 packs around the 500-800g region, but none of them is as tough as this. The cuben in this pack is a thick sandwiched type making it non-see thru and definitly thicker than any other cuben product ive seen. the material even feels more durable than my Dyneema pack.



Edit:
Ive also got a macpac cascade 75, osprey exos, and a macpac amp

The cascade is a different catagory so cant compare with this.
The exos is comfy, but definitely feels like a lightweight pack, and doesnt give you the piece of mind in terms of durability like this windrider or the macpac cascade does.
the amp feels more flimsy than this windrider for sure. its a racing pack for use on trails, unlike the windrider (for all terrain)

The Osprey Exos58 has seen a 36 day trip (3x12days between food drops) in the Kimberleys with minimal wear (includes a number of packhauls up/down cliffs and long swims through gorges), plus many other trips in Tas and Vic. I can't see why the smaller Exos46 wouldn't handle this type of punishment.

Yep, I like my exos 58 too.

Its unlikely to die from 1 trip, but I wouldnt take it bush bashing when I have another dozen packs to choose from.
When you put an exos beside a Macpac cascade - Its easy to tell which will likely to give you more confidence in material durability. The windrider gives me this same sense of durability.

ninjapuppet wrote:the material even feels more durable than my Dyneema pack.

You tweaked my curiosity here. Do you mean Dyneema gridstop? Or do you have something made of full Dyneema?

I've got a Granite Gear Alpine Vapor, 59L & 1190grams.
Slightly bigger than your specs & you can't try it on prior to buying.
I find it comfy, well made and so far durable (no scrub bashing)
http://www.frontcountry.com/site/granit ... vapor.html

If you like the W.E contour, we have the Cordura military verson, the W.E Bushranger, on sale for $60.00

cams wrote:
You tweaked my curiosity here. Do you mean Dyneema gridstop? Or do you have something made of full Dyneema?

Not full dyneema. Its 4.2 oz/sqyd Ripstop from here http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/dyneema.shtml
The zpacks is on Ok pack, but unfortunately I cant recommend it for the $175 asking price and no frame.

Now none of these packs can compete with Langy's $60 bushranger in terms of "bang for your buck"
It looks like a really neat peice of kit and I love packs that dont have brand logos asking you to advertise for them.
Looks great for an overnighter.

langy wrote:If you like the W.E contour, we have the Cordura military verson, the W.E Bushranger, on sale for $60.00

interesting.. what does it weigh?? is the waist strap worthwhile?? (i.e. does it take some load off your shoulders?)

johnw wrote:If you are visiting Trek n Travel have a look at the Wilderness Equipment Contour (43L). /snip.

http://www.wildequipment.com.au/daypack_detail.php?Code=WECONT

langy wrote:If you like the W.E contour, we have the Cordura military verson, the W.E Bushranger, on sale for $60.00

Thankyou johnw and langy, I'd not seen this one before. It doesn't look like Trek n Travel stock the Contour at the moment (though MD's up here in Newie might), but I'll certainly try on the others in the range to get a feel for the W.E style harness. And $60 for such a simple and sturdy unit - thats impressive! If you're checking the dimensions of yours johnw, my tent's a Tarptent Scarp 1, ~60cm x 20cm packed. Sleeping bag and mat are about the same, stacked. It's this ~60cm which I think is going to preclude a few packs.

legend wrote:The Osprey Exos58 has seen a 36 day trip (3x12days between food drops) in the Kimberleys with minimal wear (includes a number of packhauls up/down cliffs and long swims through gorges), plus many other trips in Tas and Vic. I can't see why the smaller Exos46 wouldn't handle this type of punishment.

ninjapuppet wrote:Yep, I like my exos 58 too.

Its unlikely to die from 1 trip, but I wouldnt take it bush bashing when I have another dozen packs to choose from.
When you put an exos beside a Macpac cascade - Its easy to tell which will likely to give you more confidence in material durability. The windrider gives me this same sense of durability.

Cheers legend and ninjapuppet - your confidence in the Exos' durability puts it back into the main contenders - I'll take a closer look at it. My concern, as above, is it's length (listed at 66cm) and curved shape - might not suit the tent dimensions - but I'll take my tent along next time. It certainly ticks most of the boxes - and at a 10-14kg mass carrying range, it's good for it's light weight.

tele-whippet wrote:I've got a Granite Gear Alpine Vapor, 59L & 1190grams.
Slightly bigger than your specs & you can't try it on prior to buying.
I find it comfy, well made and so far durable (no scrub bashing)
http://www.frontcountry.com/site/granit ... vapor.html

Thats a pretty good looking pack tele-whippet- certainly fits the shape and design criteria, nice and minimal - but you're right - it's getting close to the size of my Cascade, and I'd prefer to try it first. Even though it's a decent 59L, how much weight would you expect it to carry, given it's a tiny 1.19kg?

ninjapuppet wrote:http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/products/specialdeals/hmg-2010windrider-ultralight-pack.html\

I got the newer version, but its not much different to this version which is on sale now for $175

The 40L fits your criteria.
Cut off the webbing net and it weighs 500 grams
The cuben material in mine is a burly as any canvas Ive seen.
Its rainproof so you dont need a pack liner or pack cover.

Now this, has got me interested. Exped have something similar - fully waterproof with a dry-sac style roll-down closure. I may just do some more research into this Windrider - mimimal, waterproof and durable - I like it, thanks ninjapuppet.

Anybody got experience with the One Planet Umbra? I think someone on here has one...?

Capt DropBear wrote:Thankyou johnw and langy, I'd not seen this one before. It doesn't look like Trek n Travel stock the Contour at the moment (though MD's up here in Newie might), but I'll certainly try on the others in the range to get a feel for the W.E style harness. And $60 for such a simple and sturdy unit - thats impressive! If you're checking the dimensions of yours johnw, my tent's a Tarptent Scarp 1, ~60cm x 20cm packed. Sleeping bag and mat are about the same, stacked. It's this ~60cm which I think is going to preclude a few packs.

I measured mine at 55cm maximum internal length so looks like it might be a bit short. Because it's not a rigid pack I think you'd be able to shoehorn slightly longer items in but the lid might sit higher than it should, partially exposing the contents to weather ingress. Not sure about this as I couldn't find items of similar size to test it. It would be good to take the key pieces of gear along when you're shopping to see what fits.

I've just got a Granite Gear Vapour Flash (52L, ~1.3kg). Haven't used it yet but it looks perfect. I used a One Planet Vertex (38L) on my last two overnighters but my camera gear just won't fit. Also got a couple of One Planet Shadows - I prefer the older version that still get used on longer walks tho the GraniteGear should be ample for up to 5 days.

MJD wrote:Also got a couple of One Planet Shadows

Exactly how many packs do you have MJD???

Capt DropBear wrote:Anybody got experience with the One Planet Umbra? I think someone on here has one...?

I've tried it on a couple of times now after a couple of recommendations in a lightweight pack thread in the weight saving section. Really nice pack. Simple, but very functional design. I found the harness to be the most comfortable I tried in my searches for a lightweight pack. Possibly only outdone by an AARN. Can't really put my finger on why I didn't get one actually. Someone did post some pictures of a couple of tears in the fabric of theirs so maybe it isn't as tough as it could be either. I still haven't purchased anything because I'm too scared to get anything without trying it on and can't find exactly what I'm looking for locally.

cams wrote:

Capt DropBear wrote:Anybody got experience with the One Planet Umbra? I think someone on here has one...?

I've tried it on a couple of times now after a couple of recommendations in a lightweight pack thread in the weight saving section. Really nice pack. Simple, but very functional design. I found the harness to be the most comfortable I tried in my searches for a lightweight pack. Possibly only outdone by an AARN. Can't really put my finger on why I didn't get one actually. Someone did post some pictures of a couple of tears in the fabric of theirs so maybe it isn't as tough as it could be either. I still haven't purchased anything because I'm too scared to get anything without trying it on and can't find exactly what I'm looking for locally.

Ahh, the good old search function - which I didn't use A lot of good information in that thread - makes the decision/research process somewhat easier.

Exactly how many packs do you have MJD???

One less than before. I managed to sell my Macpac Cascade - good rugged pack but too heavy for me.

MJD wrote:

Exactly how many packs do you have MJD???

One less than before. I managed to sell my Macpac Cascade - good rugged pack but too heavy for me.

HA! And my girlfriend can't understand why I "need" (read: want) another pack - for a grand total of 2!

Wilderness Equipment Contour, its a beauty. I have a WE 70 odd liter pack (cant remember the name sorry) and have found it to be brilliant. When I needed a new day pack I went for the Contour. I would definately recommend you give it a try.

Mate, I'm 99% sure I have the torlesse 35, but without the daisy chains on the front that are seen when you google image search for 'Macpac Torlesse 35'

Getting it in size 3 instead of 2 will get you a few extra litres (say to 38 or 39L) but it's still called the 35.
When I weighed it, it was around 1.1 and not 1.5kegs (may need to re-check this if you base your purchase on this difference)
Have no idea where the 'hydration exit port' is ?? But the front pocket (more than enough room for a 3L platypus) zips from bottom to top so you can leave the top zip slightly open
Material is waterproof/resistant against showers, however I use the (included) pack-cover in heavy rain which works fine
Mesh side pockets have ripped (expected it, has happened to every single pack I've owned - blue mountains scrub) but material where it counts is fine
Size 3 (slightly taller version, what I have) will fit your 65cm long tent, unsure about size 2)

You say you want minimalist but with good compression options?? Well this seems to have an obsessive amount of straps :
2 ice axe loops on the front-bottom
One central strap that goes over the draw-string, under the top-loading cover
2 straps that close the top-loader (also acts as vertical compression)
2 straps on the side of the pack for horizontally compressing sideways
Chest strap, waist strap,
Plus a few more for good measure - backpack to top of shoulder strap, backpack to bottom of shoulder strap, and backpack to padded area of waist strap
Really is strap central when you think about it but I suppose they can be trimmed to reduce the weight if you're so inclined

It costs $120 (macpac kent st sydney) which looks like it's permanently "on sale" from $200 (I've never ever seen it cost that much - not a big fan of that business model..)

it amazes me the number of packs sold with ice axe loops which never get used.
Even el-cheapo $20 packs have them! How many people actually even own ice axes?

snip, my tent's a Tarptent Scarp 1, ~60cm x 20cm packed. Sleeping bag and mat are about the same, stacked. It's this ~60cm which I think is going to preclude a few packs.snip


Worthwhile double checking the length of your Scarp 1 mine is only 51.5 cm long packed,this may help in your pack choice
corvus

ninjapuppet wrote:it amazes me the number of packs sold with ice axe loops which never get used.
Even el-cheapo $20 packs have them! How many people actually even own ice axes?

you haven't done much walking in NZ mtns have you? a walking axe is quite handy in the tops..

My response would be to look at Kakapo 35. simple, Aztec, metal hooks....just as you ask for in your first post.

http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... apo35.html

cheers

pancake wrote:Mate, I'm 99% sure I have the torlesse 35, but without the daisy chains on the front that are seen when you google image search for 'Macpac Torlesse 35'
snip
[read: thorough review of Torlesse 35 features]
/snip

Sounds like a solid pack, thanks for the heads-up on this one - I was uncertain about it - but will certainly take a closer look now.

blacksheep wrote: /snip
My response would be to look at Kakapo 35. simple, Aztec, metal hooks....just as you ask for in your first post.

cheers

Thanks blacksheep, this one was certainly on the short-list and I've been contemplating it for a while - I'll haul my overnighter gear into Macpac next time I'm in Sydney and see how it all fits (and the Torlesse). Though you didn't comment on the Torlesse 35, is the design of the Torlesse intended for something different than what I'm trying to acheive (ie light but rugged overnighter?)

corvus wrote: Worthwhile double checking the length of your Scarp 1 mine is only 51.5 cm long packed,this may help in your pack choice
corvus

Must've been my elastic tape measure... I re-measured and you're right, cheers corvus.

Looks like it's down to:
Macpac Kakapo 35
Macpac Torlesse 35
Exped Backcountry 45
Osprey Exos 46
WE Contour

Slowly but surely...

well it is rugged enough (600d HT nylon) , but it seemed you wanted canvas and metal closure also, but if these are not critical to you then I'd certainly pull than off the shelf to go over- it certainly has more features that many day walkers would appreciate- the kakapo is a more minimalist design.

Capt DropBear wrote:

johnw wrote:If you are visiting Trek n Travel have a look at the Wilderness Equipment Contour (43L). /snip.

http://www.wildequipment.com.au/daypack_detail.php?Code=WECONT

Thankyou johnw and langy, I'd not seen this one before. It doesn't look like Trek n Travel stock the Contour at the moment

Looks like its back in stock, they had one on display yesterday. $159-00 on the tag but all stock min. 10% off over easter.

I have the Osprey Exos 46. About to take it on a 2 nighter this weekend and have crammed it full of stuff. It isn't exactly what you would call minimalist though but I like the fact that it has a bazillion options to hang and attach things to it. I have only taken it on one other 2 day hike so far and cannot say that I really thrashed it around so cannot comment on it's durability. It's very comfortable though and extremely light.

Took the Granite Gear Vapour Flash out for a four day hike over easter. Very impressed. Two wet days followed by two sunny days. Everything stayed nice and dry. Very comfortable. Not sure exactly how much I was carrying (probably 12-14kg including the pack) but I did have room to fit more in.

The One Planet Shadow is a bit more comfortable, possibly because of a more substantial harness system, but it is a bit heavier. For less than half the price, I have to say that the Granite Gear Vapour Flash is looking pretty good. Let's see how long it lasts.

And ice axe loops - I like them. I even have an ice axe, which has been used at least once in the last five years. Being an eternal optimist I keep hoping to get more use out of these loops every winter but not so far .

I am in the market for a light pack as well, I was thinking the Osprey Hornet 46 is what I want, i need a pack for at least a 7 day camping trip and I think 46 litres would be fine, it will be a solo trip I think so I will be carrying all my gear.

I would like to know my options for light packs, I not mind a 50 litre pack instead for a little more room, or would 46 do ???

What other brands have ultra light options ?????


Thanks.