How much gas is left?

[Lavenderkid]

On multi-day walks it is often difficult to know if gas is being used at the rate that has been budgeted for. This often leads to carrying an extra canister 'just in case'.
One answer to this is to be able to weigh the canister using a simple set of scales weighing 22 gm.
The marks on the rod below indicate empty and full. In answer to the question: Is the scale linear, that is, does half way along equate to half the gas? - the answer is yes.

Bruce Key

[corvus]

G'day Lavenderkid,
That is a good test but somwhat irrelevant whilst on the track don't you think? a bit late on day five to find out you will run out on day six of an eight day walk
I much prefer to carry an extra Gas Canister the little ones dont weigh much or take up a lot of space

corvus

[Tony]

Hi Lavenderkid,

Nice idea, helps keep an idea of how much gas you are consuming, if running low you can keep remaining gas for food cooking only, much lighter than a spare cylinder.

A possible improvement to reduce weight is to make the balance bar from carbon fibre.

Tony

[corvus]

Hi Lavenderkid,

Nice idea, helps keep an idea of how much gas you are consuming, if running low you can keep remaining gas for food cooking only, much lighter than a spare cylinder.

A possible improvement to reduce weight is to make the balance bar from carbon fibre.

Tony

With respect Tony what else would we need our Gas consumption knowledge for other than cooking only or do you still use heavy gas lanterns and heat water for a shave and a shower
I stand by my previous comment that when you run out it is a bit late to wonder why, as gas for a hot drink and or a feed is really IMHO much more important than saving at most for me 361 gm yes less than 12 oz if I could not carry this much extra at my age I would give it up and I may add it is much better to be able to guesstimate your gas usage for each trip which is easy to do after each walk
corvus

[Tony]

With respect Tony what else would we need our Gas consumption knowledge for other than cooking only or do you still use heavy gas lanterns and heat water for a shave and a shower
I stand by my previous comment that when you run out it is a bit late to wonder why, as gas for a hot drink and or a feed is really IMHO much more important than saving at most for me 361 gm yes less than 12 oz if I could not carry this much extra at my age I would give it up and I may add it is much better to be able to guesstimate your gas usage for each trip which is easy to do after each walk
corvus

Hi Corvus,

Not everyone is as experienced as you.

I should have written “essential cooking”, eg no coffee, tea or hot chocolate or heating water to wash or clean eating utensils, or using gas for mood lighting.

Learning to estimate gas usage comes from experience, one way to get experience is by weighing your canisters at start and end of trip, the amount of gas I use per day can be different, depending on the trip, and depending on temperature, wind, if I am cooking for one or two or three, what I am cooking, water temp, if I am melting snow etc. I refill my canisters to what I estimate I will use plus an extra days fuel.

I can see an advantage doing it on the trail, it is a good way to learn how much you are using early on each trip, and a good way to learn more efficient easy to use your stove. After all lavenderkid’s sales only weigh 22g.

Tony

[corvus]

Tony,
I respect what you are saying but cannot accept that measuring on the track is of any advantage!! an empty canister is empty and of no use when you just need gas.
Do the tests when you get home.

Experience comes with trial and error and with my many years of Bushwalking I learn something every walk and having the lightest pack in my opinion does not equate to total personal comfort nor indeed safety and as BP said Be Prepared
corvus

[Nuts]

Where's that snorkle icon

Given that running out of fuel isnt exactly life nor death (or shouldn't be) then carrying a second cylinder isn't essential, right?

Keeping an eye on how much you have (so you dint run out) seems pretty reasonable. The measurement would either compensate for or lead to 'experience'...

That said, i thought there was thermally reactive 'sticker' that gave an accurate reading? Now c'mon corv, keeper of the stoves, say you wouldnt want one?

[corvus]

Where's that snorkle icon

Given that running out of fuel isnt exactly life nor death (or shouldn't be) then carrying a second cylinder isn't essential, right?

Keeping an eye on how much you have (so you dint run out) seems pretty reasonable. The measurement would either compensate for or lead to 'experience'...

That said, i thought there was thermal 'sticker' or something that gave an accurate reading? Now c'mon corv, keeper of the stoves, say you wouldnt want one?

G'day Nuts,
Do I really need to reiterate !! what is the point of knowing you are running out if you do not have a back up
My case is rested no flipping gas is an empty flipping gas canister FULL FLIPPING STOP if you still have even a day that requires hot food /drinks
corvus

[DaveNoble]

Nice idea - very simple!

Most of my trips where I use gas - I have to also travel by plane - so cannot take partly filled cylinders home. Its nice to know with fairly high accuracy how much gas is left - so I can cater for a last dinner and have an extra cup of tea or two.....

Dave

[Nuts]

i would have thought the point, my fine feathered flipping flapper , was that you would have an aid to know that you were one was Not going to run out, not that you Were one Was! My approach would be to carry none... i'd just borrow your spares

[Nuts]

sorry dave

[corvus]

i would have thought the point, my fine feathered flipping flapper , was that you would have an aid to know that you were one as Not going to run out, not that you Were one Was! My approach would be to carry none... i'd just borrow your spares

As a well organised person I doubt that I need a "doubtful " gauge to tell me I dont have enough gas for my next hot drink/meal
corvusl

[Nuts]

meh, i wouldnt, some do, i dont usually wear a watch..

[corvus]

Nice idea - very simple!

Most of my trips where I use gas - I have to also travel by plane - so cannot take partly filled cylinders home. Its nice to know with fairly high accuracy how much gas is left - so I can cater for a last dinner and have an extra cup of tea or two.....


Dave

I agree with you Dave but I bet you do it before you take of on your walks and not during (this is the point of my post not to take the p1ss ) no good finding out (as you would no doubt agree) that if you dont have enough gas for even a cup of tea when you are a couple of days into your destination you would be more than Dozy and since when have you been using gas burners
corvus

[Nuts]

hey.... its a Brunton : http://www.trailspace.com/gear/brunton/ ... escription


must sleep...

[Lizzy]

Well I think it is a good simple idea. I am fairly new to cooking with gas (have previously used alcohol or shellite which is much easier to gauge) & am still getting used to how much gas I use. On a longer walk it would be nice to know that say half way thru I hadn't been using as much gas as planned so could happily make extra milos or alternatively know that things are getting a bit tight and have few less
It may not be to everyones taste but why boo hoo an idea that some may find useful or just interesting. Yeah sure you could take an extra gas cannister but why bother if you can simply gauge how the gas is going. If you run out on day 1 then you have obviously made serious miscalculations or none at all & that is a different story. Also those of us travelling on planes do not want excess cannisters....
lizzy

[Son of a Beach]

I would find it quite useful. If I'm half way through a walk, and worried I might be consuming more gas than I'd planned for so far, I will generally try to cook less.

Being that I drink a bit of tea, and usually do more than just boil water cooking, I could save a lot of gas during the remainder of the trip by drinking less tea, and cooking meals faster. Eg, put all ingredients in at once, rather than simmer onions first, etc. With some meals I could eat them raw instead, such as the stir fry veges I sometimes do, saving the gas for other meals that couldn't be done raw. I could make a (very ordinary) Bircher muesli for breakfast instead of porridge (I make proper porridge, not instant stuff).

If I used those simple 22g scales and found that I actually did have plenty of gas left, after all, then I could continue drinking the tea I wanted, and cooking my food properly. Ie, for some styles of walking/cooking it could avoid the need to carry extra gas "just in case". If trying to avoid carrying extra gas, such a device could point out that I was using too much gas, at which point for the rest of the trip, I could save on fuel where possible, rather than running out and being left with food that's no good uncooked. Alternatively, it could show that I'm not running low, and I can happily keep cooking all my food as originally intended.

However, I find that an extra 270g cannister is not a big burden to carry, so I'm generally OK to carry a spare one.

[photohiker]

I always carry a spare, for the simple reason that I have seen a self-seal valve stick open and the contents of a canister get lost. On the second day of a weeks walk, that would be a royal pain. At the time there were plenty of people about so the hapless hiker got lucky with a 'spare' donation.

Even without this risk, if you are using more gas than expected you might not be able to modify cooking behaviour enough to avoid cold food at the end of the trip. Yuk!

Its a good idea to track your use though, and an improvised LW beam balance is a handy way of doing it.

[north-north-west]

I always carry a spare, for the simple reason that I have seen a self-seal valve stick open and the contents of a canister get lost,...

Yer, that happened on my most recent annual New Year Snowy Mtns ramble. Four days into the eleven and I'm out of gas. Found an almost empty canister at Tin which got me through another couple of days, but then it was having to find fireplaces if I wanted a hot meal or drink.
Not my idea of fun. Since then I've made a point of carrying a spare (full) canister.

[DaveNoble]

I agree with you Dave but I bet you do it before you take of on your walks and not during (this is the point of my post not to take the p1ss ) no good finding out (as you would no doubt agree) that if you dont have enough gas for even a cup of tea when you are a couple of days into your destination you would be more than Dozy and since when have you been using gas burners
corvus

Not sure what you mean here. I have been using gas exclusively for bush cooking in Tasmania and New Zealand since about 1978. I still cook on fires in the Blue Mts). Before my walks - my gas cylinders are full. Thats how shops sell them - so I know how much gas they have. (OK - I do know now that some Hobart shops sell second hand ones - that have been given back to the shop by people finishing a trip and flying home) It is hard to predict fuel use - variables include - number of people in the party per stove, type of pots used, heat shields used, cook inside or outside the tent annex, types of meals - eg those requiring boiling and then soaking or those that require simmering, ambient temperatures, ambient wind, number of stormbound days (you tend to drink more tea/coffee/soup) etc etc.

Thats why a way of gauging fuel use on the trip is a good idea.

Dave

[Tony]

I always carry a spare, for the simple reason that I have seen a self-seal valve stick open and the contents of a canister get lost,...

Yer, that happened on my most recent annual New Year Snowy Mtns ramble. Four days into the eleven and I'm out of gas. Found an almost empty canister at Tin which got me through another couple of days, but then it was having to find fireplaces if I wanted a hot meal or drink.
Not my idea of fun. Since then I've made a point of carrying a spare (full) canister.

Leaking canisters can happen but it is very rare, it has never happened to me (yet), except when leaving stove on canister, I always remove my stove as soon as the stove has cooled down enough.

I have run tests where I have left the stove on with valve tightly closed and accurately weighed the cansister every day for a few days, I lost a few grams of fuel each day, so if the valve is not closed then a full canister could empty fast.

I am not saying that it will never happen to me.

Bushwalking in general has its risks, just because a canister may leak, I do not think it is a reason to carry a spare, do we carry a spare tent because some tents get damaged in storms, or a spare pair of boots because some boots fall apart, a spare pack because some have pack failure, etc.

Tony

[corvus]

I agree with you Dave but I bet you do it before you take of on your walks and not during (this is the point of my post not to take the p1ss ) no good finding out (as you would no doubt agree) that if you dont have enough gas for even a cup of tea when you are a couple of days into your destination you would be more than Dozy and since when have you been using gas burners
corvus

Not sure what you mean here. I have been using gas exclusively for bush cooking in Tasmania and New Zealand since about 1978. I still cook on fires in the Blue Mts). Before my walks - my gas cylinders are full. Thats how shops sell them - so I know how much gas they have. (OK - I do know now that some Hobart shops sell second hand ones - that have been given back to the shop by people finishing a trip and flying home) It is hard to predict fuel use - variables include - number of people in the party per stove, type of pots used, heat shields used, cook inside or outside the tent annex, types of meals - eg those requiring boiling and then soaking or those that require simmering, ambient temperatures, ambient wind, number of stormbound days (you tend to drink more tea/coffee/soup) etc etc.

Thats why a way of gauging fuel use on the trip is a good idea.

Dave

G'day Dave ,
Sorry for my assumption that you were not using gas way back then
As for the rest of your comments I agree and that is why I find it much safer to carry that extra Gas Cylinder rather than need to ration use
corvus

[Orion]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned floating the canister in water. Achimedes.

As long as you take care to burp the bubble of air on the underside it provides a reasonably linear way to measure the contents. You do have to figure this out ahead of time, where the canister floats when full and empty. Also you need a big enough container of water, or a calm pool, to float it in.

I just shake them. You can get a pretty good feel for it. It's not as accurate but it's good enough. Sometimes the burn rate isn't quite what was planned and mid-trip adjustment is needed.

[photohiker]

I always carry a spare, for the simple reason that I have seen a self-seal valve stick open and the contents of a canister get lost,...

Yer, that happened on my most recent annual New Year Snowy Mtns ramble. Four days into the eleven and I'm out of gas. Found an almost empty canister at Tin which got me through another couple of days, but then it was having to find fireplaces if I wanted a hot meal or drink.
Not my idea of fun. Since then I've made a point of carrying a spare (full) canister.

Leaking canisters can happen but it is very rare, it has never happened to me (yet), except when leaving stove on canister, I always remove my stove as soon as the stove has cooled down enough.
[..]
Bushwalking in general has its risks, just because a canister may leak, I do not think it is a reason to carry a spare, do we carry a spare tent because some tents get damaged in storms, or a spare pair of boots because some boots fall apart, a spare pack because some have pack failure, etc.

Hi Tony,

This is not a leak I'm talking about, it's a seal failure when the stove is removed. Gas is lost rapidly and there is little you can do about it. Best might be to try and replace the stove to try and plug the gap but the seal would probably be frozen solid by then (I have not had the opportunity to try) Yes it is rare, but it does happen.

Carrying an extra cylinder is a light insurance. More in the realm of carrying an extra days food than an extra tent or such. In any case, gear can often be bush-repaired or just used broken and still have some effectiveness, a gas can is useless when empty.

[Orion]

Photohiker, when did the seal stick?

I had a canister seal stick open one time, but it was very apparent as the canister hissed after removing it from the stove. The solution was simple -- put the stove back on and carry it that way. Now if it leaked so slowly that it escaped notice of my ears or nose then it would be more problematic.

A more pressing problem for me is falling asleep after a long day while the food is cooking or the tea is brewing....

[Nuts]

Bushwalking in general has its risks, just because a canister may leak, I do not think it is a reason to carry a spare, do we carry a spare tent because some tents get damaged in storms, or a spare pair of boots because some boots fall apart, a spare pack because some have pack failure, etc.

Tony

Yes, some things get blurred in the quest to 'be prepared' don't they. Its not so much a single gas cylinder as applying this as a unswaying 'attitude'. Surely no one carrys two cylinders for a single night? When does the second cylinder get added, how do you know how much you use each day, slow trial and error or measurement.. Each to their own but, for some, its not going to be a supprise that a light weight pack is a bit of a lost cause.

Taken to its logical conclusion, i find it at odds that people talk about 'gear' as the keystone to being prepared. To me, its just as important to be prepared considering 'gear' last.

Getting away from gas cylinders perhaps but the way of thinking can be applied to everything gear related can't it...

I think a second cylinder is a good idea for longer walks if you know your going to come anywhere near using the first but some food that doesnt need heat is as likely an even safer strategy, i'm sure Baden would agree... (but then scouts, from what ive seen, are classically 'overburdened' and, just as likely as anyone, underprepared though watch out for a freethinker amongst them )

[photohiker]

Photohiker, when did the seal stick?

When the stove was removed. Yours is the first I've heard that re-attaching the stove was accomplished and solved the problem. I guess a non-obvious slow leak is possible too, harder to catch that too.

Falling asleep while cooking, hmmm. Big days much?

[Orion]

Re-attaching the stove "solved" the problem only by leaving the stove attached and the stove valve turned off. It didn't fix the canister valve. Maybe yours failed in some different way? In my case the seal stuck in the open position. Inside there's a little spring and a plunger that moves up and down and for some reason on that canister the plunger stayed in the open position.

Yeah, sometimes a big day, sometimes a little too much whiskey.

[north-north-west]

......
Bushwalking in general has its risks, just because a canister may leak, I do not think it is a reason to carry a spare, do we carry a spare tent because some tents get damaged in storms, or a spare pair of boots because some boots fall apart, a spare pack because some have pack failure, etc.

One small gas canister weighs a whole lot less than a tent/sleeping bag/pack/boots. If I'm out for just one or two nights, I don't worry about it. Four or more and the spare is standard.

[corvus]

Bushwalking in general has its risks, just because a canister may leak, I do not think it is a reason to carry a spare, do we carry a spare tent because some tents get damaged in storms, or a spare pair of boots because some boots fall apart, a spare pack because some have pack failure, etc.

Tony

G'day Tony,
This is a no win situation and I do not carry a spare Tent nor Pack but I do with sox, jox back up ignition source ,batteries ,dry clothes,laces (multi use) ,food that does not need cooking have camp shoes I could walk out with and most importantly spare paka poo tickets in the form of a couple of individually wrapped (and stashed to stay dry) Kleenex to go pocket packs with 9 tissues in each
To each their own and I do like the " beam balance " just cannot see it being used in the field by many and it is good to see other threads being introduced.
c