Sleeping bag how warm for winter?

[Ent]

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[corvus]

Good post Brett,
I am looking for a Summer Bag with a water proof/resitant outer Shell that will come well under 1000g and the choice is mind bogling,my current Winter-all round Bag has a pertex shell with 800g of down and weighs in at around 1650g ,never been cold in Winter but its used as a doona in Summer which is no good in a Microlite Tent owing to high condensation .
I use a silk liner year round and wear socks (thermals if its really cold)in Winter,I have a naturally warm body core so I dont rate as standard when it comes to perception of heat/cold so I can only say buy the best you can afford and dont forget to try it out in the shop for comfort fit.
corvus

[Ent]

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[norts]

I own a Fairydown Viper with Dryloft outer. I dont have any problem with packing it down into a stuff sack.
I have also read where people say that its hard to pack and that you need to unzip it stuff it into the bag. I totally disagree.
Yes, I have to be careful and start with the foot end first, but all air squeezes out through that big hole int the top. I dont use the compress the bag as much as I could because I have plenty of room in my pack and I think that squashing the down more than you need to is going to be detrimental over a period.
I have a dryloft bag and a pertex bag, I only ever use the dryloft these days, mainly because it is a bit lighter and I can dont need to be as careful in my tent.

Roger

[corvus]

Too many sleeping bags in my household ,its my Sons' which has Pertex and I have the Dryloft which I may add that I agree with norts that stuffing it is easy provided you do it from the foot up to let the air out of the big hole at the top.
I am iterested to hear from others their opinion as to Shell fabrics as its only in my Microlite that I need waterproof/resistant fabric.
corvus

[flyfisher]

My favourite is a Fairydown Scorpion with an Entrant outer cover ,rated -10 by the manufacturer although they say the Entrant lifts that rating.
It has 700 grams of down and weighs 1600 grams in its stuff sack.
It's a good warm bag and packs up quite small. The outer cover is fairly air tight but it compresses into the stuff sack without too much bother.
Entrant is a kind of rip stop fabric sometimes used for tents.

My other is a J and H winterlite which is also a good warm bag but packs up slightly bigger and with 900 grams fill is a bit heavier also.
Its outer fabric, although lighter is probably more absorbent in damp conditions eg condensation.

Both these bags are 4 season as when I bought them they were used mainly for Western Lakes fishing trips ,often quite early season.

F F

[norts]

I got the Viper on special when Fairydown closed down. I have used it in snow and some good frosts. I have had to used thermals, socks and a beanie a few times. Like Corvus I like the Dryloft in my Microlight.
My Fairydown catalogue 2004 rates the viper to minus 7.

Roger

[Ent]

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[tim]

Hey Brett.

Just so that you know (may be too late anyway) One Planet are more than happy to knock up custom bags if you have your heart set on one. As far as I recall they are not much more than a regular bag, and you should be able to deal direct with their factory.

[Ent]

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[tas-man]

<SNIP> Toying with the idea of checking out the Launceston Bushwalking Club for more challenging walks so a solo tent light as possible without trading off safety margin is a future purchasing consideration. <SNIP>

Cheers Brett

Hi Brett,
Check out our current walks program for some ideas,
http://www.launcestonwalkingclub.org.au/walks.html
and let me know when you plan to drop in to one of our Wednesday evening club nights so I can introduce you around - we are a friendly bunch

Cheers,
Ian

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[Speculator]

Id like to revive this thread if I could. I'm looking for a new bag for winter walks. I have a bag that's rated for "mild winter", and last time I used it the temp. got down below 0, it wasn't exactly comfortable. Does anyone have any pointers of things I should look for, or brands they can recommend. I think I'll go for something that's rated well below 0, maybe -10. From the research I've done, it seems sleeping bags don't have any standard rating method in Aus. or the USA, but in Europe they have some standardisation. It makes it hard to compare. I've got a few ideas on what I need, but I thought I'd consult the brains trust first!

L8r.

[corvus]

G'day l8r,
I have just ordered a Tundra Pure and Dry -5 bag which is filled with Ethical Down and has a Waterproof shell weighs less than 1kg and 3 season rating,knowing your body weight as compared to mine you probably need the -10 (they do go to -20) just bear in mind that they are not cheap however they are manufactured in Poland in ethical fair pay establishments as opposed to those made in Vietnam with questionable pay rates for employees and the Down is collected from moulted Free Range Geese , renewable , not dead ones , a nice green industry.
corvus.

[Ent]

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[dee_legg]

I just brought a Mont Brindabella with a hydronaute XT (waterproof) outer. Its great, rated down to - 12 with 750gm of goose down. Kept me very warm on a cold night up at Mt Rufus on the weekend. We had heavy ice in the morning so it got pretty cold. Mont also makes extra long/ large bags but i'm not sure how tall these cater for.
Hope you find what you're looking for!

[Speculator]

I've noticed you have to be a little careful with some bags, particularly those from Europe. I read somewhere that the standardisation over there includes two temperatures, one for a comfort rating (ie. below that temperature range is when the cold starts interrupting your sleep) and an extreme temperature rating (where below that temperature you start to run the risk of sleep-deprivation and exposure). This is okay if you're aware of it, but some online retailers list bags like this Vango bag as being rated to -18° when in reality it's only comfortably reated to -4°. I guess this is where some research can realy pay off!

Actually, here is a short definition of said standard on Wikipedia.

L8r.

[sarge]

I have recently done a lot of research into this topic as I am a very cold sleeper and have been tricked into buying 'super light weight' sleeping bags before that seem too good to be true (i.e. under 1 kg, -10c and under $200) completely useless at anywhere near 0c. A total waste of money for me apart from maybe using it as a summer bag.

I have been comparing fill weight (g) and fill loft. I have found the quality of the down is very difficult to measure and quality standards vary dramatically between countries so it becomes very confusing. It is important if you want the best fill possible to try to get a sleeping bag from a reputable company that sources their down from mature, free range birds.

The IDFL independently assesses the quality of down fill in sleeping products. Their website is and interesting read if you want to learn more about how down if manufactured and tested and also how the labelling standards vary between countries (http://www.idfl.com/).

I have settled on the oneplanet winterlite 950 - I am a big fan of Oneplanet products for a few reasons but for those who do not want to shell out so much cash for a sleeping bag ($629 is the cheapest I have found it for so far), maybe try to choose a company that uses the IDFL to independently assess their down rating - many US and European companies do.

Just a note on Australian sleeping bag manufacturers - the standards for labelling down filled products in Australia are among the most stringent in the world and (unlike other countries) they cannot label their products to confuse customers into thinking they are buying an alpine or cold weather bag when they are not. It is for this reason that Aus made sleeping bags tend to be more expensive than bags made overseas. At least you know you are getting what you pay for....

[Speculator]

I have recently done a lot of research into this topic as I am a very cold sleeper and have been tricked into buying 'super light weight' sleeping bags before that seem too good to be true (i.e. under 1 kg, -10c and under $200) completely useless at anywhere near 0c. A total waste of money for me apart from maybe using it as a summer bag.

I have been comparing fill weight (g) and fill loft. I have found the quality of the down is very difficult to measure and quality standards vary dramatically between countries so it becomes very confusing. It is important if you want the best fill possible to try to get a sleeping bag from a reputable company that sources their down from mature, free range birds.

The IDFL independently assesses the quality of down fill in sleeping products. Their website is and interesting read if you want to learn more about how down if manufactured and tested and also how the labelling standards vary between countries (http://www.idfl.com/).

I have settled on the oneplanet winterlite 950 - I am a big fan of Oneplanet products for a few reasons but for those who do not want to shell out so much cash for a sleeping bag ($629 is the cheapest I have found it for so far), maybe try to choose a company that uses the IDFL to independently assess their down rating - many US and European companies do.

Just a note on Australian sleeping bag manufacturers - the standards for labelling down filled products in Australia are among the most stringent in the world and (unlike other countries) they cannot label their products to confuse customers into thinking they are buying an alpine or cold weather bag when they are not. It is for this reason that Aus made sleeping bags tend to be more expensive than bags made overseas. At least you know you are getting what you pay for....

Hey that's really great information. Thanks for that, I'll do some more research tonight. I'm not sure I want to spend $600+ on a bag, so maybe the OP bags might be a little too much for me. If Australian bags are trustworthy in their ratings, I think the best I've seen so far for price might be something like the Roman Flight Advance 1000 or Black Wolfs Vertical Limit 950. Both are heavy bags, but it looks like if I dont want to shell out more cash I'll just have to put up with the extra weight.

L8r.

[tas-man]

I have recently done a lot of research into this topic as I am a very cold sleeper . . . . . .

One aspect of using sleeping bags that has not come up yet is the fact that the quality of the bag is in its ability to control heat loss from your body. If you get into a super warm sleeping bag and you have been shivering around your fuel stove in a howling southerly, your peripheral temperatures are likely to be significantly lower than than core temperature. When in your bag, your hands and feet will only come up to core temperature as your body produces enough heat to restore the normal temperature of your extremities. We all can vary in our metabolic rate and how much hear we produce at "idle", so folks who say they are "cold sleepers" need to kick start their heat production at the time they hop into their sleeping bag. I always thought I was a "cold sleeper" and continue to use my 1968 Everest Mummy bag for all seasons, but have found over the years that if I am not rugged up enough and warm enough before I get into my bag, I can lay there all night with cold feet. My simple fix for this is to do a few minutes of jogging on the spot or star jumps etc to get the muscles working and pulse racing then quickly hop into my sleeping bag. That bit of extra heat on bag entry can make an amazing difference to the initial warm up of the inside of the bag, and a very comfortable nights sleep. Try it next time you are camping in the cold and see what difference it makes.

[corvus]

L8r,
I should receive my Tundra Pure And Dry -5 soon so I will be in a better position to advise you as to quality etc ,this bag will compliment my Winter Bag however it is my intention to test it out on our three peaks walk at the end of the month if it arrives on time so if you are joining us on this one you will be able check out my condition in the morning on the mountain top

[Damien]

I've been using a One Planet Bungle 600 for the past 18 months or so. It's actually VERY warm. When I first used it in NZ I couldn't sleep as I kept on waking up in hot sweats. When I used it on the Overland Track it performed well when the temp dropped below zero for a couple of nights but was still a bit too warm.
I've recently switched bags with my girlfriend as she gets a bit colder during the night than I do.

I think the Bungle 700 could be close to what your after as it's rated to -7 and it's only around the $350 range in price.

On another note, I was just comparing our bags and my girlfriend has the OP Bush-Lite 700 and I have the OP Bungle 600. The Bush-Lite is rated higher than the Bungle however in our real world experiences the Bungle is MUCH warmer than the Bush-Lite.

[Speculator]

I've been using a One Planet Bungle 600 for the past 18 months or so. It's actually VERY warm. When I first used it in NZ I couldn't sleep as I kept on waking up in hot sweats. When I used it on the Overland Track it performed well when the temp dropped below zero for a couple of nights but was still a bit too warm.
I've recently switched bags with my girlfriend as she gets a bit colder during the night than I do.

I think the Bungle 700 could be close to what your after as it's rated to -7 and it's only around the $350 range in price.

On another note, I was just comparing our bags and my girlfriend has the OP Bush-Lite 700 and I have the OP Bungle 600. The Bush-Lite is rated higher than that Bungle however in our real world experiences the Bungle is MUCH warmer than the Bush-Lite.

The Bungle 700 is available on at least one online retailer for $350. It's a good ratio of warmth/weight/price, it's Aussie (oi oi oi) too which makes me feel the warm glow of patriotism (worth a 1/2 a degree alone). It looks great for the money......... there must be something wrong with it!

L8r.

[corvus]

L8r,
A wee bit of info on bags for you,
http://www.tundrasleepingbags.com/atmagazine.pdf
I am landing my Pure and Dry -5 for $482.00 AU and the prices quoted on this link are OOD.

[Ent]

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[Son of a Beach]

There's some great information in some of these posts. I was just wondering, though, do women really sleep colder than men, on average? In my experience I'm the cold sleeper and my wife sleeps warmer. I know that people vary a lot in how hot/cold they sleep, but I'd never heard anyone suggest that women are usually the cold sleepers before.

[Ent]

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[corvus]

[quote="Nuts"]I think it's probably not gender... It's probably more SIZE that matters!

Those Tundra bags look interesting. The down'fall is price... Why is European stuff soo much dearer ($ value aside) compared to the US stuff..?

Nuts I suspect because they are produced in establishments that actually pay a living wage for all aspects of the manufacturing process from fill to shell (cloth is made in Korea) but let me get back to all when I receive and try out my Tundra Bag

[Nuts]

Things do get complicated. Some manufactures make womens specific models which are cut more to shape...The down is therefore concentrated in different areas and the amt.adjusted so that the ratings are the same mens/womens for each model.

As an example of the European Standards (to help anyone buying from a manufacturer that abides by them)

Model listed as -18c

Comfort -9 For the average person
Transition -15 Almost everyone will be pulling on extra clothing beyond this
Risk -32 Almost everyone will be beyond help!

May seem that it should be rated -9?... Perhaps not. I'd put there -18 rating as the extreme of something that's going to keep you alive, without additional layers, but you will probably sell all your gear when you get home and move to Nth. Qld...

It seems the manufacturers rating is at the minimum end of the scale- which is probably where everyone rates their bags, no matter manufacturer or origin. I think if I was in there position i'd probably use the same rating, and as they have done- provide the ES ratings for those who want to look closer


My personal rating/experience with this (-18/ 1.6kg) bag has been that the ratings probably ok, been down to abt. -4/5c so far and no prob's.It's used as a designated 'winter bag' and i'd imagine that it would be to hot from (say) December- March.I have a -1 rated (summer bag/ .9kg) and a -9 (3 season/ 1.3kg) bag from the same manufacturer. As I do pretty much all my walking 'inland', i would choose the -9 (3 season) bag for the summer rather than the -1.

Most people would 'get by' with the lighter ratings (and, yes you can put all your clothes on) though i personally like the warmth and the security of not relying on the other gear to reach ratings (for the sake of saving 2-300grams in this vital piece of gear).

[corvus]

G'day nuts,
I am now totally confused with your informed details which is OK for someone in their Sixties but with respect I don't think I am Robinson Crusoe when it comes to facts about Sleeping Bags, my Winter Bag is a MD 100% down Cornice Dryloft and Australian made (from memory cost a shizen load) lofts like an air mattress but it is heavy at 1600g and with few exceptions is overly warm ,hence my search for a lighterweight 3 season replacement.
My choice of a Tundra Bag was strongly influenced by "Ethical Down " and fair pay of the employees in Poland however as stated previously "the proof will be in the pudding" so watch this space