Macpac Prophet

[mattmacman]

Hey guys im looking at shelling it out for a shell (love the pun), im looking at the macpac prophet im extremely excited about trying a eVent jacket HOWEVER looking at the reviews and comments about the prophet people are saying that the DWR coating wears off and clogs, i didnt even think there was a dwr coating ? According to macpac its just the event, anyway how does the jacket perform ? Input appreciated !

[ULWalkingPhil]

I own a pair of Macpac Prophet Exp long pants. Don't own the jacket, but I did try one on.
Yes, they do have a DWR Finnish, and yes the DWR does disappear rather quickly if the garment gets dirty. Regular washing is required, even says so on the care instructions on the garment. They do breath very well if kept clean.

Even with proper care, I've found after time, I've had to retreat and put the DWR Finnish back into the garment, so far I've had to do this once. Surprisingly, this was after first use of garment, since than it's been fine, that was 3 or 4 months ago, and the garment is still going strong. I found the breathability very poor the first time i used the pants. But once I used some Grangers product to put the DWR Finnish back into garment, it's performed great. So, out of the shop, found the garment performed poorly, that is till I used Grangers product. I had some Grangers 2in1

[ULWalkingPhil]

I was considering purchasing one of these jackets, It's a huge investment, though, even at the reduced sale price it's currently on at the moment, it's a lot of money to spend. Certainly if I lived in Tasmania or anywhere near snowy mountains, I would not hesitate in purchasing one of these jackets.

But I don't live at Tasmania or near a snowy mountain, I live at Tropical QLD on the central Coast near Fraser Island. I think the jacket will be a overkill for me. Even with how brilliant they claim this Event fabric is with it's breathability, Up here in QLD I still find myself soaked to the bone with sweat after a hard days hike with the Event Prophet Pants, certainly not as bad as if I wore a cheap rain pants. I was even told this by the guy's at the Macpac store when I went back after a 2 day hike at the Royal National Park, I was not happy with how wet I was getting under the garment and it was a coolish day, they told me it can only put out a certain amount of sweat. and the funny thing is I don't sweat a lot. Like I said before after I retreated the pants they where much better. I thought it was strange they performed so poorly out of the shop.

Am I happy with the purchase: Yes. But there claims of being 200 times more breathable than any other product out there, I laugh at.

[cams]

Hey guys im looking at shelling it out for a shell (love the pun), im looking at the macpac prophet im extremely excited about trying a eVent jacket HOWEVER looking at the reviews and comments about the prophet people are saying that the DWR coating wears off and clogs, i didnt even think there was a dwr coating ? According to macpac its just the event, anyway how does the jacket perform ? Input appreciated !

Somone correct me if I'm wrong but having a DWR coating is pretty much standard in rain jackets. It isn't necessarily the actual waterproof barrier but it helps to stop the face fabric wetting out which makes it weigh more and hinders the functionality of the breathable laminate underneath.

[sthughes]

Yeah all (or at least most) Evetn/Goretex jackets use DWR because as soon as the face fabric wets out the breathability drops to bugger all regardless of the membrane. That's my understanding anyway. Weather or not the Macpac DWR coating isn't as good as others who knows. I'm happy with my Macpac Event, but realistically I've been very lucky with the weather of late and it hasn't seen a lot of action yet.

[sthughes]

BTW the claims are 200% more "breathable", not 200 times. So really only 2 times more.

And yes in warmer conditions you'll still sweat heaps anyway, but in the cold they are great.

[mattmacman]

Hey guys in what way would you say the DWR gets dirty i usually am pretty good with looking after my gear (i pretty much excavate a spot for my tent =) does it happen easily ? Also im pretty dissapointed that eVent can come up with such a great material (which it is GRGRGRGRGRRGRGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR) but have to use *&%$#! old DWR, why is this ?

[ULWalkingPhil]

Hey guys im looking at shelling it out for a shell (love the pun), im looking at the macpac prophet im extremely excited about trying a eVent jacket HOWEVER looking at the reviews and comments about the prophet people are saying that the DWR coating wears off and clogs, i didnt even think there was a dwr coating ? According to macpac its just the event, anyway how does the jacket perform ? Input appreciated !

Somone correct me if I'm wrong but having a DWR coating is pretty much standard in rain jackets. It isn't necessarily the actual waterproof barrier but it helps to stop the face fabric wetting out which makes it weigh more and hinders the functionality of the breathable laminate underneath.

This makes sense, this must be why I got better breathability after using the Grangers 2 in 1 product.

You would think, brand new of the shelf that the DWR finnish on the Event pants I purchased would be there.

On a coolish rainy day at the Blue Mountains first time wearing only a few days after purchasing pants I got soaked to the bone. Went back to store of Purchase in Sydney after completing the hike, and they told me this was normal, and that it can only breath so much. Well at that stage, I was very disappointed in the pants and thought what a heap of ##$%#.

While in Sydney I decided to purchase some Granger's 2 in 1 product to treat my 2 year old MD Rain Jacket.
Out of the blue I thought ill throw the pants in the wash and give them a clean and treat with the Granger's Product. Went hiking at the blue mountains soon afterwards and the pants performed heaps better, Only yesterday I wore the pants expecting rain on a day hike, I got wet, but still no where near as soaked as I was on that 2 day hike at the Royal National Park and it was a fairly warm day, and yesterday was a lot more strenuous hike than it was at the RNP. by the time I got back home I was dry, I had light Merino longs under the pants. This was not the case at Royal National Park, I was still soaked to the bone for the next few hours and I wore the same Merino longs as I did yesterday on that hike.

Oh, I almost forgot, I had to take the pair back following day after purchasing the Prophet Pants, Lucky I tried the pants to show my Nephew, before the RNP hike, when I noticed a buckle was sown on inside out. Took the pants back that very day and had it replaced. Maybe they gave me a old pair or a used pair????? I did watch them and they took one of the shelf, it was the last one.

Just make sure you check over the garment with a keen eye, Quality control appears to be lacking with the Macpac products of late.

[mattmacman]

So my question remains should i buy the prophet XPD, what should i treat it with if i purchase it? Also i noticed that Montane does eVent jackets, how do these stack up against macpac?

[gayet]

If you are impressed with the Prophet, have a detailed chat with someone at MacPac about maintenance and cleaning. I understand the DWR finish is degraded by dust, dirt, sweat etc in combination with rain- think of it like a capillary action. The dirt, dust etc forms a link between the outer and inner by clogging the pores and allowing water to move between the fibres - the wetting out of the face fabric. By washing the item in appropriate stuff, the dirt dust particles and sweat salt crystals etc are removed, the capillary action is broken, the DWR surface restored,the hydrostatic pressure gradient is returned to desired level and hence breathability ( the result of the hydrostatic pressure gradient) is improved.

[Dale]

Just looked these up - that's a pricey jacket !

You might want to check some OS sources as well:

http://www.prolitegear.com/site/xdpy/ss ... Waterproof

[Stibb]

I tried this jacket a couple of days ago (women's model). I loved the design and details and it looked really well made. Me want. I put it on and I could hardly move. It was stiff like a straitjacket. The outer fabric is obviously tough but you would hope it softens up a bit with use. I might be on the short side (160cm) and not too skinny but this jacket is made for someone who is very slim and with really long, THIN arms. I could just peek out from the hood which was super tall if that make sense. Maybe it's just me but It's off my wish list. Don't buy online if you haven't tried it on

[ULWalkingPhil]

Just looked these up - that's a pricey jacket !

You might want to check some OS sources as well:

http://www.prolitegear.com/site/xdpy/ss ... Waterproof

That Rab Momentum Jacket looks nice and its very light.

[ninjapuppet]

My mini review here: http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6507#p79546

Ive got both the current prophet XPD and the former prophet and the newer one is better suited for traditional mountain climbing.
The cut of the jacket is designed so you can swing your arms above the head with an ice axe.
Its thick materials is so that it doesnt disintegrate when leaning hard into the rock for your life and theres a 1000m cliff below you.
its hand warmer pockets is designed to fit 2 zippo handwarmers when its -10C
This is a jacket for extremes.

Ive tested it out on many occasions but its real test was in the crazy weather at Perisher last Sunday when the whole resort closed down due to the 140kph winds. Anyone who was present at the snowies on 10/7/11 will know what I'm talking about. We were backcountry telemarking when the weather turned nasty overnight and I can attest to it's wind-blocking ability. Its hood covers half the lower face and this is a godsend when there are spindrifts blowing right at you at over 100kph. Once cinched down, the hood has just enough room for snow goggles. My weather meter registered 105kph and kept rising before my anemometer got blocked up by the spindrift. My 15kg backpack and ski poles flew into the air 60 meters uphill like a kite, and it took me half an hour fighting through the wind to retrieve it.

If you're expecting to go into these harsh environments, like a mountaineer/ expeditioneer, then cost is a moot point.
If you're not expecting to go into these harsh environments, then forget about this jacket. Dont get it for bushwalking simply because its the most expensive, making you think its the 'best'.

There are better jackets for bushwalking such as a lower cut jacket or a lighter jacket

[mattmacman]

Do you have any reccomendations then ? I am mostly going to use the jacket in WA however i have a trip to india in November with about 15 days of hiking all up and i plan on doing some small hikes in NZ next year.

[Bluegum Mic]

I have the plain prophet jacket (not the xpd) and I really like it for walking. A tad heavier than some jackets but I like it's cut/design and it's durable. Mind you I do like the hood for the reasons ninja just pointed out too as I do use it in the snowies. Big thumbs up from me.

[goof1671]

My mini review here: http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6507#p79546

Ive got both the current prophet XPD and the former prophet and the newer one is better suited for traditional mountain climbing.
The cut of the jacket is designed so you can swing your arms above the head with an ice axe.
Its thick materials is so that it doesnt disintegrate when leaning hard into the rock for your life and theres a 1000m cliff below you.
its hand warmer pockets is designed to fit 2 zippo handwarmers when its -10C
This is a jacket for extremes.

Ive tested it out on many occasions but its real test was in the crazy weather at Perisher last Sunday when the whole resort closed down due to the 140kph winds. Anyone who was present at the snowies on 10/7/11 will know what I'm talking about. We were backcountry telemarking when the weather turned nasty overnight and I can attest to it's wind-blocking ability. Its hood covers half the lower face and this is a godsend when there are spindrifts blowing right at you at over 100kph. Once cinched down, the hood has just enough room for snow goggles. My weather meter registered 105kph and kept rising before my anemometer got blocked up by the spindrift. My 15kg backpack and ski poles flew into the air 60 meters uphill like a kite, and it took me half an hour fighting through the wind to retrieve it.

If you're expecting to go into these harsh environments, like a mountaineer/ expeditioneer, then cost is a moot point.
If you're not expecting to go into these harsh environments, then forget about this jacket. Dont get it for bushwalking simply because its the most expensive, making you think its the 'best'.

There are better jackets for bushwalking such as a lower cut jacket or a lighter jacket

I've also got a new one and the old one. If you have the money then buy it as it is one of the best jackets out there, hence the price. It would be silly of me to say it is the best but that's what I want to say.

I reckon your shell needs to be bombproof and capable of looking after you in the absolute worst conditions so that if you one day get caught out in it then you can chuck it on and it will do the job. The Prophet will do it but you gotta pay the money.

ALSO: Any jacket will wear out bashing through scrub and being the layer between you and the elements.

[wayno]

if you wait, theres even better technology raincoats coming out
toward the end of the year columbia are bringing out their peak 2 peak jacket, with omnidry which is even mor breathable than eVent, shouldnt be any more expensive than the prophet.
the north face and marmot are also bringing out their neosehll jackets from polartec, again more breathable than event. although these will be a lot more expensive than the peak 2 peak, around the $700 mark although they are a softshell jacket, they may have a fleece so might be on the hot side outside of winter.
event still build up condensation inside in heavy rain, with no pit zips on the macpac coats, once the outser surface is saturated , it's breathability plummets
the new prophet is a very heavyweight jacket, made for abrasion resistance for mountaineers. if you're still wanting a macpac event coat look at one of the other models if you want something lighter.

[mattmacman]

All the macpac coats have pit zips ! Also excuse my ignorance but does a lighter weight eVent material mean its more breathable, in response to Wayno's comment stoic came out with a jacket mire breathable than eVent (vapour shell) however i found it wasnt well thought out and was rather fragile, i find the same with most Columbia products, as for the north face ....... their in the category of prada and armani now (i hate em), marmot well well see there usually pretty good !

[mattyc25]

I have done a pretty comprehensive review on the older Prophet. I have used it in Oz for winter trips and mountaineering and ice climbing in NZ.

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4604

I love it, awesome fabric. I personally have to disagree with Phillipsart comments on the fabric not being that breathable in QLD. I agree that it isn't, but then again there is no fabric on the market that breaths well in QLD, I just about have them all. As sthughes says when it's warm you are going to sweat under a hard shell. It is the simple physics of how hard shells work in warmer and more humid environments.

Unlike ninjapuppet I like the older one simply due to less weight. Although I have not got the new one, only the older one I would not buy the newer one for mountaineering, too heavy IMHO. Had no issues with durability with mixed climbing in NZ. Also found the cut fine for ice climbing. I will always go with less weight over durability as I have mine for alpine environments where it is in the pack more often than not as I am usually in a soft shell. Comes down to personal choice really.

I started with hard shells that have all the bells and whistles but the longer I spend in the outdoors the more I realise with softshells these days being so good, a hardshell generally gets used a lot less than you think, so weight is my main consideration. Although I don't live in Tassie!

[ninjapuppet]

matty, i did mention that the prophet xpd is better than the older one for "traditional" mountaineering as opposed to your mentioned "alpine" style mountaineering where light and fast is of the essence. For light alpine style climbing, even the older prophet is way too heavy. Something from Arcty'rx's LT range would probally be better.

Ueli Steck had teamed up with Mountain hardwear to come out with a new range of alpine gear comming out next year that is super light while still able to endure the a baseline safety level. He took out all the pockets and and zippers and everything to save grams to get his pack under 5kg
http://www.himalayaspeed.com/the-gear/mountain-hardwear/

But you're right about the softshell being used more often. millet has a softshell that has a 20k waterproof level and it feels more comfy than the prophet jacket
http://www.leftlanesports.com/Product.aspx?p=MIL01231

[frenchy_84]

All the macpac coats have pit zips !

No they dont, many dont have pit zips

[ILUVSWTAS]

All the macpac coats have pit zips !

No they dont, many dont have pit zips

Agreed. My Macpac jacket does not have pitzips.

[mattmacman]

Wait your right! Tried on the zealot yesterday .. no pitzips, dissapointing ! But the prophet XPD does!

[mattyc25]

matty, i did mention that the prophet xpd is better than the older one for "traditional" mountaineering as opposed to your mentioned "alpine" style mountaineering where light and fast is of the essence. For light alpine style climbing, even the older prophet is way too heavy. Something from Arcty'rx's LT range would probally be better.

Ueli Steck had teamed up with Mountain hardwear to come out with a new range of alpine gear comming out next year that is super light while still able to endure the a baseline safety level. He took out all the pockets and and zippers and everything to save grams to get his pack under 5kg
http://www.himalayaspeed.com/the-gear/mountain-hardwear/

But you're right about the softshell being used more often. millet has a softshell that has a 20k waterproof level and it feels more comfy than the prophet jacket
http://www.leftlanesports.com/Product.aspx?p=MIL01231

My Prophet in a medium is 540 grams, wouldn't put that in the "way too heavy" category myself. That was light as little as 2 years ago, probably about average nowadays. Slightly heavier than Mountain Hardwear's top of the range 3 layer jacket and slightly lighter than Marmot's Troll Jacket. Everything is relative though I guess. The Arcteryx Alpha LT is crazy light at 365 grams. Have no idea how that is possible with a three layer fabric, pretty impressive.

It comes down to the old durability vs weight debate. I really should lean more to the durability side given my propensity for wayward ice axe swings.

Thanks for the links, interesting stuff. I have Millet hardshell pants and they are fantastic.

Man that Ueli Steck is nuts. Such a small margin for error climbing that fast solo. Will be interesting to see the gear designed for him. Personally a jacket with no pockets would be a real pain for me, there is no way I am organised enough to have a jacket with no pockets.

[mattmacman]

Hey guys took the plunge today and bought a Prophet XPD, they had to order one in so ill have to wait a couple of weeks, one thing i noticed about the macpac Zealot is if your not using it for climbing eg with a helmet, the zealot has an AWESOME fit and the hood is asif it dosent exist ! Im 175cm with a smallish back and i found the extra small was a perfect fit, the adjusters for the hood on the prophet nearly make the hood as great as the zealot (without a helmet). Cheers for all the help guys, its people like you that make this site great !

[theweasel]

Hi, was just wondering whether you have got a lot of use out of your jacket and whether it held up to heavy rain? Looking at getting one myself

[blacksheep]

Hi, was just wondering whether you have got a lot of use out of your jacket and whether it held up to heavy rain? Looking at getting one myself

Hi mate, currently we are not making the prophet, the prophet xpd is a heavier, more robust jacket. These have come many from many expeditions with glowing reports though, they are made for heavy use.

[theweasel]

I meant the xpd, there are some on clearance at the moment, was just concerned with the amount of feedback that seems to suggest that it has not held up that well...

[Miyata610]

I use them. I'm happy. They're tough, a bit heavy. The pit vents are great.

Cam, I'd prefer a mesh liner to the pockets so I could also use them for ventilation too. I'm thinking of making that mod myself.

I do like the hand warmer pockets.... a nice touch.