Bushwalk Australia

Hi guys, I'm just after a little advice over which hiking boots I should buy.

I have done a bit of light hiking before, just some day walks and such, but have now planned a trip to go to Nepal and hike there for about 10 days and so decided I needed to get some proper boots.

I recently ruptured some ligaments in my ankle however so I need ones that provide ankle support. After talking to the people in Mountain Designs and Adventure Travel they both recommended a different boot (because they have different stock). They both let me buy the boot and take them home with the option of returning within a month if I change my mind. And so I need to decide which boot I should keep and which I should return, which is where I need your help.

The two boots I bought were:
• Vasque Breeze GTX
• Mammut Impact GTX

So which would you advise I keep? I find both boots very comfortable and so cannot decide...

Thanks for your help

Depends on where in Nepal you're going. Will you walk in snow? Are you hiring porters?
When I was there 15 or so years ago I bought fullgrain leather boots (Scarpa Trek attack) for the trip. Great boots but heavier than necessary for parts of the trek. I was sick so I had to be carried down on a mule. I couldn't even lift my feet, boots were too heavy and stupidly I didn't bring any other shoes. My cousin had regular sneakers and one day had to run several hours from our wrecked bus to make sure we could get on the last bus out. Later, she used those sneakers most of the way through the Annapurna circuit and only used boots for the snow over the pass. Now, hopefully you wont have the same issues but I would definitely bring light weight shoes next time for the foot hills and lower altitudes. You wont need boots there. If you're going high into snow, definitely bring boots as well.

Hopefully my memory hasn't failed me too much

Any boot that FIT properly and are COMFORTABLE would be a good choice. Only you can make that decision. Use them both for as long as you can and then decide. If they're equally good, toss a coin.

And remember, never, ever, get a seat in the front of the bus. People will throw up in a forward direction (at you), you'll see how close you really are from the edge (code brown) and you'll be the first one over the edge...

I've been to Nepal twice, 30 years ago I did an 8 day trek around the Pokhara area in sneekers (it was fine), and 10 years ago Annapurna Circuit in Scarpa Treks, indestructable, but they destoyed my feet too, and I think were beyond what I needed. It sounds like you need the ankle support so boots for sure I reckon and the two you're trying out seem fairly lightweight, which I think is a good thing. Looks like only the Mamut has Vibram sole so that is a plus, not sure if the Vasque would be quite as robust. It's good that you can try both for a month (they must be desparate for sales) so give both a really good workout. Main priority is to go with one that feels best for you and gives you the support you need with that ligament problem.

It does depend somehwhat on where you'll be going and at what time of year, but with 10 days (and if you're going in either of the two main trekking periods) it doesn't sound as though you'll be going over any of the high passes or anything like that. Those boots should be fine in that case. My current boots by the way are Scarpa Kailash GTX, probably not too disimilar to what you're looking at. I've had a few pairs now with gortex linings and that lining will not last forever. Depending on how much walking you do, may not last long at all. I'd have no problem going anywhere in Nepal with my current boots.

Like was said before, comfort is the main thing. In a practical sense, the Vasque boot is not as fancy with all its stitching, so therefore less potential breakage points, but the Mammut have a hardened toe cap which prevents against scuffing of the leather, so each have their good points. They are both very light also. Be sure to shop around a few places and try on different brands too - you may find something that is really comfortable that you wouldn't have otherwise looked at.

Monkey Face wrote:Hi guys, I'm just after a little advice over which hiking boots I should buy.

I have done a bit of light hiking before, just some day walks and such, but have now planned a trip to go to Nepal and hike there for about 10 days and so decided I needed to get some proper boots.

I recently ruptured some ligaments in my ankle however so I need ones that provide ankle support. After talking to the people in Mountain Designs and Adventure Travel they both recommended a different boot (because they have different stock). They both let me buy the boot and take them home with the option of returning within a month if I change my mind. And so I need to decide which boot I should keep and which I should return, which is where I need your help.

The two boots I bought were:
• Vasque Breeze GTX
• Mammut Impact GTX

So which would you advise I keep? I find both boots very comfortable and so cannot decide...

Thanks for your help

Hi Monkey Face,

Some information about boots, there is absolutely no evidence that boots support the ankle and stop ankle sprains, there has been a lot of research into this by Sports Medicine scientists and military's scientists around the world and they have all come to the same conclusion, "wearing boots do not reduce the incidence of ankle sprains". If you have already sprained your ankle then you are more likely to do it again, correct taping of ankles can be more successful in stopping ankle sprains. There is some good information on this topic on Roger Caffins FAQ

If you do wear ankle supporting boots then you can have all sorts of other problems as your ankle has evolved to flex and for the ankles health it needs to flex, if you do wear boots that support the ankle then it puts a lot more stress on your knees.

Wearing boots to support ankles is a myth, perpetuated by manufacturers to sell more expensive boots.

A vigorous debate about boots and ankle support was had on BA sometime ago, many members swore that boots gave them ankle support but the evidence says otherwise, I did some research into this topic and all of the evidence I found was that there is no evidence that wearing boots reduces ankle sprains, so-far out of the members who claim that wearing boots does reduce ankle sprains, not one has come up with any solid evidence to support their claims.

Tony

References Tony?

dee_legg wrote:References Tony?

Hi dee_legg,

Here are some references and conclusions.

Tony

Effect of High-top and low-top shoes on Ankle inversion

Mark D. Ricard, PhD; Shane S. Schuties, PhD, PT, ATC; Jose J. Saret, MS, ATC

Conclusions: The high-top shoes were more effective in reducing the amount and the rate of inversion than low top shoes. Depending on the load conditions, high-top shoes may help prevent some ankle sprains.

This is from the introduction

High-top athletic shoes are frequently to augment ankle support because they may provide increased resistance to inversion. The increase cost of these shoes may be justified if they decrease ankle injury rates. Not all studies, however, support the finding that high-top shoes may reduce the potential for injury. Currently, consensus is lacking among researchers and clinicians concerning the extent to which high-top shoes protect the ankle from inversion trauma.

1: Foot Ankle. 1991 Aug;12(1):26-30.

Risk factors for lateral ankle sprain: a prospective study among military recruits.

Milgrom C, Shlamkovitch N, Finestone A, Eldad A, Laor A, Danon YL, Lavie O, Wosk J, Simkin A.
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, Hadassah Hospital, Ein Kerem, Jerusalem, Israel.

In a prospective study of risk factors for lateral ankle sprain among 390 male Israeli infantry recruits, a 18% incidence of lateral ankle sprains was found in basic training. There was no statistically significant difference in the incidence of lateral ankle sprains between recruits who trained in modified basketball shoes or standard lightweight infantry boots. By multivariate stepwise logistic regression a statistically significant relationship was found between body weight x height (a magnitude which is proportional to the mass moment of inertia of the body around a horizontal axis through the ankle), a previous history of ankle sprain, and the incidence of lateral ankle sprains. Recruits who were taller and heavier and thus had larger mass moments of inertia (P = 0.004), and those with a prior history of ankle sprain (P = 0.01) had higher lateral ankle sprain morbidity in basic training.

1: Sports Med. 1995 Oct;20(4):277-80.Links

The role of shoes in the prevention of ankle sprains.

Barrett J, Bilisko T.

University of Oklahoma, Health Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, USA.

Ankle sprains are a common sports injury that can cause significant, chronic disability. Studies aimed at prevention through the use of footwear have focused on the biomechanical aspects of foot and ankle anatomy, proprioceptive input of the foot/ankle complex, external stresses applied to the joint, and shoe traction. These studies support the use of high top shoes for ankle sprain prevention because of their ability to limit extreme ranges of motion, provide additional proprioceptive input and decrease external joint stress. Despite this biomechanical evidence, clinical trials are inconclusive as to the clinical benefit of high top shoes in the prevention of ankle sprains. Further study is necessary to delineate the benefits of shoe designs for ankle sprain prevention.

http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/27/6/753.abstract

I do agree Tony. Don't really need references.. Having had numerous sprains wearing all types of footwear I just don't believe the common 'misconception' that high top boots help. Strapping, with your foot aligned properly in doing so is the only effective means of controlling ankle roll. While high top boots may limit motion (tightly laced) I don't think they do jack (technically speaking) once at the point in a roll where damage starts to occur. In a really bad sprain (iv'e had this one in boots as well) the compensation for the roll can be just as bad, spraining ligaments on the opposite side from that caused buy the direction of rolling. Boots would need to limit motion in the same way as strapping and they just don't..

Furthermore since being diagnosed with a degenerative knee condition (attributed directly to carrying heavy packs...) I notice the strain any sort of limited ankle movement puts on your knee. With in mind for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction (ref: ) the limiting force is not dissipated, it is transferred to your knee. Perhaps this will all come to light one day and be more widely accepted (though not likely by boot sellers), meanwhile I would challenge any research that said otherwise as being flawed...

I do notice that the tendency to roll ankles is much reduced as a walking season goes on, worst in spring when i'm fat and unfit This leads me to the conclusion that strengthening ankles is the only effective means of preventing ankle sprains..

A good point for high top boots however, would be ankle protection from scrapes and spikes.. is this worth the risk for the type of walking done? I do still use boots a lot but with mind open to the above.

That said.. I had the Vasque Breeze. didn't last long. The Europeans make much better boots.

Sorry Tony, I didn't read all your comments or references. I read the main points well enough to agree but realise you initially said exactly the same thing... Should be kudos for those researchers, their theory and its relation to pack carrying that people 'on the ground' have similar thoughts (to the point of conclusions, to me).

Nuts wrote:A good point for high top boots however, would be ankle protection from scrapes and spikes.. is this worth the risk for the type of walking done? I do still use boots a lot but with mind open to the above.

That said.. I had the Vasque Breeze. didn't last long. The Europeans make much better boots.

Hi Nuts,

Thanks for your report and your experiences with feet knee problems, I have read similar report before.

For the last two snowshoeing seasons I wore low top shoes, I did knock my ankles a few times, so this year I purchased some mid boots of a well known brand to try and stop this happening, I used them for the first time three weeks ago, besides the water proofing wearing off in less than half a day, the tongue bit into my ankles and my ankles became so much sorer than the few knocks that I would have got if I was wearing low top shoes, a very bad tongue design.

After three days of use on the snow the water proofing was totally shot, the boots where trashed and my feet where wet, they have been sent back to the importers for a refund, I will be going back to low top shoes, the problem is that I have big feet and finding good fitting shoes in Canberra is very hard, the boots I have just brought where a special order and took 3 months to come.

Tony

Hi Tony

While hard to argue against research but I just do not find this applies with me. With running footwear I have twisted my ankles many times, sometimes putting me out of action for many weeks but I have never twisted an ankle wearing boots. That is the simple fact for me. Also I appreciate the warm feet having seen first hand people almost reduced to a crawl with frozen feet from snow melt and crossing numerous "intermittent" streams. When the sole came loose from an aged pair I found how unpleasantness feeling this is. Oh, and found seal skins work great with Crocs around campsites but after ten or so wears mine are failing. Fellow walker found similar lack of durability. Plus decent boots protects feet from sharp rocks. Seen some pretty impressive cuts in the heavy leather so wonder what would happen with lighter fabric. Also my feet get bruised over sharp angled rocks unless wearing boots.

Also I do appreciate the decent tread on boots compared to other footwear and have read that one of the big issues with boots is people running the tread down too much before replacing boots. And yes I have been guilty of that and found huge amounts of increased traction with new tread. Also seen more than a few footwear failures with footwear made outside Europe. I treat money spent on decent boots as an investment. Trouble is more than few brands charge a lot but do not last, so price is not the end and be all when selecting boots.

Feet and military logic is a mixed bag with now growing research that flat feet, in the absence of other conditions, is not the issue that it once was made out to be. Yet to see an army going for runners but time will tell. Also never really noticed the weight of footwear, and my boots when soaked head toward two kilograms each

We will have to agree to disagree on this issue as seen more than my fair share of people admiring my and fellow walkers boots on a cold and wet walk. Tassie just tends to be a lot wetter for a lot longer than many places in Australia. By that, days rained rather then total rainfall.

Cheers

Aww.. why not me anyhoot...hey... If you guys are going in past Lake Bill... remember those crocs

Nuts wrote:Aww.. why not me anyhoot...hey... If you guys are going in past Lake Bill... remember those crocs

Oh no, not another one of those "intermittent streams" Crocs are great for creek crossings but need to be in 4WD mode Though with the high cut SL I generally find tip toeing with size 49 means I can ford a reasonable depth of creek. Still remember the long snow walk coming back from Lake Myrtle where we decided it was easier to walk in the lake rather than the "track". Still feet stayed dry

Cheers

Better the intermittent stream than the incessant babbler haw haw... Nar.. The buttongrass was flooded and there were a few calf deep crossings but they are probably down by now. A few tedious windfalls here and there. How many nights have you got? If you stay at Meston tell those rats I won't rest till I get my titanium spork back tell them ha har, those bits they chewed I had planned to cut off my pack anyhow..

Nuts wrote:Better the intermittent stream than the incessant babbler haw haw... Nar.. The buttongrass was flooded and there were a few calf deep crossings but they are probably down by now. A few tedious windfalls here and there. How many nights have you got? If you stay at Meston tell those rats I won't rest till I get my titanium spork back tell them ha har, those bits they chewed I had planned to cut off my pack anyhow..

Nah -- we are given Meston hut a miss.

Looks like we may be sloshing our way through the button grass to Dixon's

BTW have I told anybody that I love my boots. Tried runners, track shoes, light leather boots (Scarpa Rangers) and heavy leather boots. So far the winners are the Scarpa's. Walking for an hour or two the light shoes are great. After that my feet start to feel tired and sore. With a boot I can place my foot without far less care. Love a lighter weight pack, down to under 12kg for the weekend. My ageing knees seems happier with boots on uneven track and off track. Runners are great on duck board.

Trying for the Scarpa SL-3 and a peri 10-11kg pack for extended walks. A bit of the sublime and the ridiculous. The only way I will know how my feet and knees will cope is the give it a try.

Is anybody out there walking in Five Fingers - now they would be light give ultimate flexibility.

Penguin wrote:Nah -- we are given Meston hut a miss.

Looks like we may be sloshing our way through the button grass to Dixon's

BTW have I told anybody that I love my boots. Tried runners, track shoes, light leather boots (Scarpa Rangers) and heavy leather boots. So far the winners are the Scarpa's. Walking for an hour or two the light shoes are great. After that my feet start to feel tired and sore. With a boot I can place my foot without far less care. Love a lighter weight pack, down to under 12kg for the weekend. My ageing knees seems happier with boots on uneven track and off track. Runners are great on duck board.

Trying for the Scarpa SL-3 and a peri 10-11kg pack for extended walks. A bit of the sublime and the ridiculous. The only way I will know how my feet and knees will cope is the give it a try.

Is anybody out there walking in Five Fingers - now they would be light give ultimate flexibility.

hey... i don't think i mentioned the new arrival.. scarpa fuego, i'm the toughest ha ha.. feel like a polio victim but a tough one.. ha ha.. five fingers., i'm getting some just to prove a point!!
hey, have a good weekend, think of me when your emptying out those boots

Just a quick tale. Bought a pair of Keen Siskiyou MID waterproof boots a few weeks back after a long protracted search for water resistant boots under $300.00. Took them for a stroll that weekend. It rained. Gaiters and long pants kept the rain from going in through the top. My feet were wet in 20 minutes. They stayed that way for the weekend. Not happy Jan. Threw out my upper limit and went back to the net for help. Lots of good things written about L.L. Bean Cresta boots. I'd tried on enough boots to know the sizing so bought a pair online. Still paid under $300 ($234 in fact) and now have what appears to be some of the most finely crafted and comfortable boots I have come across. I've mainly worn Merrells and Scarpa in the past and been happy enough with them but these L.L. Bean boots look a feel great. Time will tell but so far it pit them agaist Vasque Breeze or Mammut Impact or the Scarpas.

Just to put my 2 cents in, I had a fall 2 years ago climbing and broke my ankle. As the injury healed the foot and calf muscles atrophied. With very weak ankle muscles, the boots torqued the foot and made it roll harder, because of the extra hieght of the sole. The safest shoes were volleys or other minimal shoes. I had very strong ankles to begin with. Used to trail run at night without a torch...

On the topic of which boots to by, Scarpa and Zamberlan full grain leather boots are both pretty comfy from experience. I'm not a fan of goretex in shoes. Just a nice piece of leather.

I'm still trying to sort out my feet. Can't find any shoes that fit. Spent a bit of money trying different hiking boots. Currently gone back to my Zamberlan Baffin boots, as there the only ones that don't cause me pain apart from blisters on my heels. Trying different socks and additional padding on my heels. Will test this weekend. The other shoes I have are way to tight around my feet. Pain is just unbearable, worse than blisters. Got some Kinesio Tex tape on order, should be here tomorrow, will try taping my heels with the tape, hopefully that will work.

Hi
I have a pair Meindl Island Pro MFS, German brand boot. Won numerous awards etc.
They also come in wide version. I think they are very comfortable boot and I noticed that a lot of the Rangers and guides in NZ use the boots also. Search Meindl Footwear Movie in YouTube gives you an overview of the build process.
I’ve never had hotspots, blisters or tired feet after hiking many hours on rough Tassie terrain. They are heavy though.
32 years of international demand for this model speaks for itself!
http://www.meindl.de/download/meindl_mo ... 2010_e.pdf

I’m going buy the Burma Pro next time I need leather boots as they are not as high. I also use Keen Taghee II as day hike shoes

Stager sports in AUS/NZ is the distributer for this boot in Aus/NZ
Email Judy at Stager sports and she can help you out.
judy@stagersport.com

Another note to add. When I was in Switzerland a couple of years ago I went hiking around Eiger and Jungfrau region.
I visited the LOWA hiking boot test centre at Grindelwald First area. They electronically scan your feet and suggest boot for you, then you are able to test them free of charge. Absolutely Awesome.

Cheers.

Penguin wrote:
Is anybody out there walking in Five Fingers - now they would be light give ultimate flexibility.

That is the plan for me, give it 6 months. Im working towards the minimalist side of walking and that is one of the things im training myself into now.