Which sleeping bag?

[nina]

I've read a bit in the forum, but not really found an answer to this:

I am a cold sleeper (probably even compared to other women) and am looking for a light, compact sleeping bag to keep me warm in Tasmanian summer. I am willing to pay a bit of money since I'm hoping that it will last for a while
The one I currently have will verly likely not keep me warm enough, even when using my liner and wearing thermals. Also when looking at what bags there are out there on offer, I know I can get definitely something lighter with more warmth.

Any suggestions? Any suggestions considering the needed temperature rating?

[Erica]

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately, i love it!) the Tasmanian summer can be extremely varied. Last Boxing Day a friend and I went for a walk in the highlands and had a few cms of snow settle on our tent overnight. This can mean large variations in night time temperatures. I assume you're looking for a bag for the Overland Track from where you've posted this comment, not the coastal areas.

Have you got any bags that you were considering (prices, ideal weights etc)? I'm also a cold sleeper (and a female!) so I know how you feel. If you're not too tall then seriously consider the women's fit bags. I really like them as I've found that they tend to fit my height perfectly (about 168cm... i think!) and subsequently are warmer and you get the chop the extra end off (lighter!). If I were buying a bag again I'd look in particular at One Planet bags, I have one of their packs and love it, and have heard very good things about their bags. Plus they're Australian made (and have the price tag to go with it...).

I'm sure this hasn't really been that helpful... but maybe has raised some thoughts!

Erica

[nina]

Oh yes sorry, it is vor the OT

I am unsure about the temperature rating the bag would need to have. But I'd like it to weigh not more than 1 kg. My height is also about 168 cm, so yeah I do look at the women's bags. I think that the problem sometimes is also that men's bags are wider- if they are not filled out by the sleeper but half empty the bag won't perform to it's optimum. I have been looking at some Marmot bags, but then I saw in the reviews that they were good for blokes with broad shoulders (meaning I will leave the bag half empty so it would be colder than it's rating).
But as I said, I am still quite unsure about which temperature rating I need and that doesn't help me at all with chosing an appropriate bag.

[Erica]

If you look at something like http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ ... 6005.shtml or http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ ... 6071.shtml you can see the mean minimum temps are often between 4 and 6 over summer. this being said it can obviously get colder. I would get a bag with a rating to zero at least, as a cold sleeper myself. what is your current bag rated to? and what conditions have you been cold in it? might give a hint as to how warm your bag will need to be.

[nina]

My current Black Bear bag lost its label a few years ago so I don't know what rating it has. I believe to remember that it was something like 7 °C for comfort temperature.
In Sweden I once did not sleep at all due to me being freezing cold. It was about 0 °C that night, I was wearing all my clothes (those included thermals) but had no bag liner.
On the walk I just returned from I was comfortably warm at 10 °C without clothes but with my bag liner. The liner I have is from Sea to Summit, Reactor Extreme (is supposed to extend the warmth by 14 °C - I want to meet the person who believes that ). I really like my mat, that is definitely no problem. Also being in my small tent helps with providing a warmer atmosphere around me - but for the OT I don't know whether I'll stay in huts some nights.

I would definitely survive in my current bag, that's no question. But I have been considering getting a new one anyway (can't get rid of the campfire smell and want something lighter) so I thought this might be a good time to buy one.

[photohiker]

Sounds like your current bag is a little on the cool side and rated around 5C. I'd be looking for bags rated around or just below 0C. If possible look for bags rated according to the EN13537 standard which makes them directly comparable.

There's a bit of help and information in the wiki: Sleeping bag Selection - some of the details are probably getting a bit out of date, but there is plenty of good info there to get you started.

For what its worth, I have the WM Ultralite long overfill. I've never been cold in this bag but frequently been too warm. If I was buying again, I'd go with no overfill or even a slightly less insulative bag.

[Moondog55]

If you can't afford two or three sleeping bags I have always been a firm believer in getting the bag that will let you survive the worst possible night you possible could have.
Are you contemplating ski-touring or winter camping above the snow line in the future?
A 1kilo bag does not have much margin for error if you do and spending a little extra now may save you needing to buy another bag in the future

[nina]

Thanks for that link photohiker!
That actually seems to point towards the Marmot Helium which I had been considering already.
Honestly I only look for EN standards. Being from Europe myself I don't really understand the other ratings here. They seem to always say very low temperatures which I do not quite believe. Instead I always look for the comfortvalue of the EN standard. All the other numbers don't really help me.

At the moment I do not intend to do any camping in snow conditions. In addition to the bag there is also the weight of the liner as well

[blacksheep]

Thanks for that link photohiker!
That actually seems to point towards the Marmot Helium which I had been considering already.
Honestly I only look for EN standards. Being from Europe myself I don't really understand the other ratings here. They seem to always say very low temperatures which I do not quite believe. Instead I always look for the comfortvalue of the EN standard. All the other numbers don't really help me.

At the moment I do not intend to do any camping in snow conditions. In addition to the bag there is also the weight of the liner as well

Just a tip for you...wait a week or so. Some very good deals about to be rolled out on some very nice bags

[MJD]

You could get a Sea-to-Summit Thermolite Liner. These make quite a difference plus give you several options to cover a range of temperatures on the same walk: bag; bag+liner; orfor the really hot nights just use the liner.

[Dale]

Some good suggestions so far... so you can have a basis for making a decision some key points to consider are EN Rating, amount and quality of fill. Then go for reputable brands and pick a small size - so you maximise your ability to heat the bag.The WM Ultralite is a good pick (as already mentioned) -7 rating will be less for a female but should kick in under zero. Note there is 425g fill with 850fp + goose down quality. Blacksheep has alluded to the next Macpac sale, and the Express 600standard might be of interest. It has 600g of fill and is rated at a comfort (female) rating of -2. Not sure if Macpac does short bags ?

Separate to the sleeping bag selection is ensuring you have a well insulated pad and a double wall tent which would help with preventing condensation on the inside of the tent and improve heat retention. However you seem to have these covered.

[nina]

OK blacksheep, I'll do

MJD I already have one of those liners. And used it extensively

I had noticed the Express 600 before, but then it seemed to have about the same specs as the Marmot Helium but for $300 more? That only due to it being made in NZ/Australia?
I'm not sure about the WM Ultralite though. It does say -7 °C but then the fill weight is only at 450 g. Compared to the fill weight of the Express 600 of 600 g it seems that the -7 °C is definitely not the comfort temperature but at least the limit temperature, if not even lower than that. (The Express 400 has a comfort temperature of +2 °C. But then again the fill power also plays a role.) I cannot tell though... that's why I somehow can't deal with those ratings. They just tell you a number but it's not what you actually think it would mean.
It's not like I am anti-WM, but I just don't know how to handle their numbers. In my opinion they use that as a marketing strategy and I really dislike that as a customer, it's not helping.

The thing is that it's not like I swim in money. That's why I would really like to make the right desicion. I really do appreciate all your input, thanks a lot for your help!

[photohiker]

It's not like I am anti-WM, but I just don't know how to handle their numbers. In my opinion they use that as a marketing strategy and I really dislike that as a customer, it's not helping.

It's a fair enough observation. In the US they don't seem to understand that the EN ratings system even exists. Also, the small cottage manufacturers have a hard time finding the cash for the very expensive testing. So there are two classes of sleeping bags: those with an EN rating, and those without. Plenty of good bags in either group but its harder to sort the wheat from the chaff without the ratings. One way is to have a look at the loft. (just measuring the weight of down may not be an adequate measure due to differences in the cut and construction of the bags and quality of the down itself)

I'm sure Joe at ZPacks won't mind me quoting his loft/temp table (he borrowed it from BPL). You can read the associated explanation of his approach to temp ratings here. Basically, this is an experiential measure of temp ratings rather than a scientifically measured one.



This is for one side of the bag - if you look at the WM Ultralite on their website, it has 12.5cm loft (6.25cm a side) so -7C fits within the expectation from the loft chart.

HTH and not confuses...

[Nuts]

Directly related to loft height (which is why i find the S2S rating for that rector liner a bit dodgy). Nina I like marmot bags but if macpac can come close to competing on price then i would go for it. Another alternative to save $ would be a 800+ fill bag from one of the lesser known companies eg rab/sierra designs bags seem to go at bargain prices now and then (sierra trading post? http://www.sierratradingpost.com/sleeping-bags~d~209/ ) and are of good quality.

[hikingoz]

I've got a Macpac sancturary and a WM Highlight. I recommend a WM bag for people with size preferences because you can choose from three different lengths in the same model of bag. I'm 5'10 and my bag size is 5'10 . It is also fairly close fitting. They use good down and are fairly light. I usually use it in conjunction with a Terra Nova Moonlight sleeping bag cover to keep and condensation off and retain heat. This setup keeps me comfy down to around 5c and is waterproof with the cover at around 600grams. You could go to a much warmer WM bag and still be well under 1kg.

I've got a S2S Reactor Extreme which is supposed to add 12c to a bag, but it wieghs 400g alone (same as my WM bag) and in comparrison, is pretty much a fancy piece of cotton, so I don't use it much.

I love my Macpac sanctuary but it is on the roomier side so may not be suitable for smaller people (not sure of the size range). It fits my WM nicely inside it for extra cold conditions though

[Mountain Rocket]

[...] If I were buying a bag again I'd look in particular at One Planet bags, I have one of their packs and love it, and have heard very good things about their bags. Plus they're Australian made (and have the price tag to go with it...). [...]

This is somewhat true (the Australian made bit), but not entirely. Have a read of this post from Andrew King (the owner of OP): viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3335#p38501

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

There's a lightweight 1.1kg Kathmandu bag for sale in the market place forum at the moment. Down, rated to -7.

Only used a dozen times, excellent condition, with stuff sack, $100.

Perhaps this is what you are looking for?

[Erica]

Yeah thanks Robert, that's interesting. I think I did know that but wasn't sure. Always good for clarification

[nina]

Nice chart photohiker. But again, what is the estimated temperature rating there? I looked at the linked website which doesn't tell me whether that is a comfort or a limit temperature, for women or for men, ...
But it is so true, the loft height and quality defines in the end how warm the bag is.

Thanks for your input, I'll let you know what I decided on. In January I can then say whether the bag was a good choice to take with on the OLT

[photohiker]

Nice chart photohiker. But again, what is the estimated temperature rating there? I looked at the linked website which doesn't tell me whether that is a comfort or a limit temperature, for women or for men, ...
But it is so true, the loft height and quality defines in the end how warm the bag is.

Thanks for your input, I'll let you know what I decided on. In January I can then say whether the bag was a good choice to take with on the OLT

Hi Nina,

Yes, it's not easy when things aren't so cut and dried. My take on the estimated temp rating is that represents the limit of comfort for most people. i.e. If you go lower than this temp, you need to supplement the bag for warmth; if you are a cold sleeper, you will need to supplement the bag to get comfortable at this temp.

Even with the EN ratings, we need to try an EN rated bag (or several) in cool conditions to get an idea of how EN ratings relate to our own body when sleeping. Without already having one of those bags, its all a bit hard to dial in the correct range. I think our natural conservatism wanting to sleep comfortably warm probably means we buy a bag slightly thicker than we need the first time. That's not a bad thing, better to be too warm than too cold!

Good luck and happy walking on the OLT!

[LynnL]

I love my sleeping system - a neo air, a golite 3season sleeping quilt and if it's really cold, my RAB down booties (30gm). The booties are just marvelous. If my feet are warm, then so am I. I've walked with this in tassie, AAWT (summer months), the bib (in winter), it's even versatile enough for the flinders ranges in the walking season (you wouldn't go in summer!) that's my 2cents worth. Hope it helps.

[nina]

Thanks for all your input.

I now decided to go with a Vango Helium. Delivery was surprisingly short, and WOW is that thing fluffy! It's so unlike my old sleeping bag: so fluffy, so soft, so light, so compact, so warm, ..... OK I haven't tried it to camp with it yet but am very positively surprised by it's fluffiness. That is not only what keeps it warm but also what makes it so compressible.
Got the feeling that this bag cannot fail

[Mountain Rocket]

Good stuff. Let us know how it goes in the field!
I too will soon be deciding on a new bag (currently eying off the One Planet Cocoon -5) so these types of threads and their outcomes are always useful.

EDIT: Vango helium... is that not a tent ?

[nina]

Uups... meant Marmot Helium of course...
Think I'm spending too much time indoors