Runners for Tassie Walking

[Nuts]

So yesterday i tried another pair of runners. The previous pair (Innov8) were ok but the nylon was all abraided after one walk and they didnt dry very well. This time I thought i'd give a mesh shoe a go, Asics Trabuco.

Doing the right thing, didn't avoid the first puddles. With gritty socks I later paid the price, after 10 or so k's i ended up with the first blisters ive had in years. Underneath, right under my forefoot behind the big toe, both feet.

Am i going to have to tape this area every time? While the sides are all mesh, all runners have a cup shaped footbed (catching mud and water) ( makes skin soft..)
Goretex runners would be the other way to go but then they would be hot and slow drying..
I dont know of any walks where you could guarantee not to get wet feet early in a walk.

Runners not looking promising for Tassy so far.

Last edited by Nuts on Tue 31 Jan, 2012 6:29 am, edited 4 times in total.

[Maelgwn]

Very interesting, thanks for your thoughts.

Were you wearing gaiters?

Would different socks catch less dirt/mud/grit?

[gayet]

I must admit to doing the last 6 days of the recent Tarkine trip in TEVA sandals - can't remember the name but the type that are excellent for river crossings as water just flows out through the holes. My pack was down to about 22kg by this stage and I wore SealSkin waterproof socks as well (yeh great look, socks and sandals ). I felt I had better grip on the forest floor with these than the pair of MD nubuck shoes (again don't know name but 5yrs old or so) I had worn day 1 - 2. No problems with blisters or sore feet or rolled ankles. If creek and river crossings were above sock top I took them off before entering the water, dried feet off and resocked on the other side. Feet stayed dry and comfortable in the socks in sandals and I would be more than happy to walk a long day, with a load, in them again. Maybe not on sand but certainly rock and forest floor.

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[Nuts]

I didn't even really expect blisters maelgwn, when i pulled the shoes off and had a look it was soft 'dishwasher hands' skin that was irritating and starting to get painful. I normally wear long pants and sometimes short gaiters but left the gaiters this time (the water etc still flows in at the bottom straight away with mesh shoes). Other socks may help, they were light wool but i didn't want anything much to make them hotter, heavier and wetter longer..

Which is why I baulk at the sealskins gayet, it was a warm day (and mostly dry track), wouldn't they get sweaty? I don't think i'd be game to try sandals I have felt a few stakes trying to get though (even) the mesh upper, even with nothing to catch (like sandal parts)..

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 08 Dec, 2011 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[gayet]

I had a thin pair of wool blend ankle socks under the sealskins and that may have helped with the 'sweaty' but it wasn't exactly warm and it was wet. I caught the odd small stick in the holes but was able to shake them out easily. I hadn't intended to walk in them as such but the MD's had been slipping on wet ground and given the load I was carrying, I wanted better grip and from previous experience had found the Tevas gave that. I don't wear boots as I seem to have ankles in the wrong place for every pair of boots I have tried and/or owned. More damaged ankles in boots than in shoes and on the Tarkine trip, two slight rolls of the ankle occurred in the shoes rather than the sandals. I used sandals on day 3 as it was a non-shifting camp day and just continued with them after that.

The sealskins have a thick absorbent inner and I didn't feel hot feet at any stage. Walking through a shallow creek was a great method of cooling down if needed anyway

[Nuts]

Maybe i'll give the sealskins a go gayet.

While at it to review the Trabucos.. these:

Picture 9.png (173.38 KiB) Viewed 17052 times

the good points were that they were generally comfortable, grip well, dried overnight, have nifty lace pockets (which i discovered on the second re-lacing... i found the shoes needed to be laced tight from the bottom.. wide fitting perhaps ..)

Last edited by Nuts on Fri 09 Dec, 2011 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Maelgwn]

Now that you show me the picture, I have the same shoes and I am happy enough for light/shorter/tracked walks but wish I could find something more supportive for long and overnight walks.

I have sealskin socks also and am very underwhelmed by them. Water still gets in top and your shoes wont breathe when they are wet already. They are ok for dry socks around camp but for everyday walking they are no better than ordinary wool.

My question about gaiters was regarding of mud in your shoes made any difference, however it doesn't sound like it.

[gayet]

Maybe I found the sealskins OK because I was wearing sandals that allowed plenty of airflow around them and no pressure on them from an enclosed shoe/boot to compromise the waterproof exterior. Feet certainly stayed dry during low water crossings (ankle deep or so) and walking through wet undergrowth. Nothing will stop water running over the top of a sock and down inside!

I was wearing them on the first 2 days in shoes as well and although they were slightly drier days, I still had no problems - shoes got wet but not feet. I can see them being hot in warm dry weather but why use them then?

[photohiker]

With mesh shoes, your foot has to have a chance to dry.

What is the footbed in these made of? Is it water absorbing?

Generally, with non-waterproof shoes, I find I have to help the process along - squeeze out the water from socks or change them after big dunkings if there is the option, you can always dry the spare pair on your pack. Some folks get benefits from Hydropel, I haven't tried it though.

Also, what socks are you using? I've had good results with XSocks lite-hikers (import them, don't pay local outrageous prices) which seem to wick and dry out pretty quickly.

[hikingoz]

I used the similar saucony progrid xodus shoes for some pretty serious off road walking. The mesh position drains the shoe well and the shoe was suprisingly durable FOR A RUNNER with hard vibram soles (they also have lace pockets). I paid $80 off amazon. I've used them for running but I generally wear an old pair of asics flats on the dry trails around ACT.

http://www.saucony.com/store/SiteContro ... ption=true
http://www.amazon.com/Saucony-Progrid-X ... 458&sr=8-1

[Nuts]

It's a bit of a dilemma, either better insoles or better socks to deal with prune feet. Heavy boots seem like a burden just for dry feet, i do like the nimbleness of these runners. I know they're cheap but will probably try some of these other things before buying more runners, I do have a similar pair of New Balance that haven't been used and a pair of keens that were not suitable. Sock changing probably not ideal, maybe something super light otherwise they'll just stay wet, anyhow i'll mull it over, thanks.

[sthughes]

I had Seal Skinz and found they were great around camp but after a day or so of walking they started to leak. My Seal Skinz gloves leaked from day 1. I know people who have had the same results as me, and others other who can't fault them. Go figure? But yeah they do take forever to dry once wet (though no worse than leather boots of course). If they weren't so pricey I'd give them another try. These look interesting: http://www.rei.com/product/688268/rocky-gore-tex-oversocks-socks should dry pretty quickly and not weigh much.

[Nuts]

hmmm, yer, i'm not sure about trying to stay dry with runners, i picture hot feet partly defeating the purpose. Some better way of dealing with wet feet without needing to dry many sock pairs? Maybe the hydropel solution or better footbed drainage. I cant really see any liners drying during the day on a lot of walks but the prune foot thing obviously needs more airflow or underfoot drainage.

I did once glue those scholls spiky ortho inserts to a pair of teva sandals...

[Nuts]

Well, those aren't made any more, unless you want to buy a whole sandal. I searched all the chemists for an alternative, nada!
Saw a few bubbly silicon insole variants on ebay not like the old spiky style.

So i'm in the supermarket and find these:

Tested them the other day with another 25k's and getting them wet for the last 10 or so. Problem solved! They are pretty coarse though, can be felt through very thin socks.

Its a bit of a leap to get feet wet early on a walk, must be some cat genes somewhere The nice things about mesh runners are that they do dry (well enough) quick enough while walking and are dry (to feel) over night, without fabric insoles there is pretty much nothing to hold water. The light socks dried overnight but it was fairly warm. With such light socks being half the bulk of say explorers, i took an extra set. Put on dry socks in the morning and they stayed dry (until i found puddles)

I have noticed that the heftier cushioning on the Asics (compared to say innov-8) works better for a standard weight (18-20kg) pack.

Now to find a pair of kevlar sided socks to stop sharp stuff or might have to pull out the gaiters!!

[Nuts]

Well, the Trabuccos are comfortable and after (abt) 200k's or so they don't even have a broken thread. Just track walking but pretty impressive compared to some of the others.

A couple of points has sent them to the dog walking box..
* They dont have enough support or protection through the sides and no matter how tight they are laced they seem to settle into a loose slipper feel (being a pretty wide fit doesn't help)
* The soft mesh combined with the solid toe cap is dangerous. I hooked the toe cap a couple of times on tree roots and rocks and nearly fell, this is not good!! Given the right snag would send you straight down and fast. Something to take from this and avoid in a lot of runner style shoes..?

I once had a set of approach shoes, really liked the ability to lace and keep tight sections of the shoe. I found some Salewas that look like they tick the boxes with a bit of extra build over other approach shoes. The toe cap isn't a single section and they look to have bit more protection through the side walls. They have the low profile sole but a few lugs might help them in the mud (i recall my other approach shoes were great on rock but not much in slippery stuff)

Anyone tried??:

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[Miyata610]

Very interesting info, thanks.

I have a pair of these....

http://www.merrell.com/AU/en-AU/Product ... mensions=0

They seemed to be designed more for wet sports, but they describe them as suitable for scouting, whatever that means.

I like the vibram soles.

Anyway, I haven't tried them yet, I have always used leather boots. I'm thinking I might try them on the arm river track next week with a lightish pack.

[Lady McGuyver]

Trust me - it won't be a light-ish pack

[icemancometh]

I came across this dilemma years ago when I moved to runners.

Get wet feet from the WP and never dry out OR get wet feet from walking in wet grass, mud, rain etc. I also sweat a lot so need to cool the feet down.

I was out in the Aspiring region one year with a mate and it suddenly hit me. Mesh runners with the thinnest, ie liner weight, Injinji sock I could find.

Thin and Injinji (think glove, not mitt...of socks) and you're instantly cooler and the thinness of the sock, combined with the toe separation meant my sock wasn't holding all that water in (it was my experience on the Cascade Wayno that first made me think about this issue)
Didn't have to take socks off at crossings and fiddle around with stuff and/or get eaten alive by sandflies either. To me that's a winner all round. Just found some of these lighter 'barefoot' style TRs that will lighten the load a bit more and give me a lighter ride, more Ferrari than Jeep now.

Lower to the ground, better feel.

I've also taken to taking the liners out of my shoes altogether which also helps the wet issue (though that's not why I did it) as they hold a lot of water. Remember pulling into the huts on the Frenchman's Cap track and pouring out the water from my socks and shoes each night before giving them a rinse out and having to dry the liners and heavy socks then pulling the wet liners back in next morning (socks got dried in bed each night).

Summary: mesh or at least non WP TRs (barefoot for lightweight/feel which improves trail confidence) + thin Injinji (toe) socks + no liner...=less water retention when you get wet and less getting wet from sweating due to the ventilation. Now to try some of these dirty gal (gaiters)

[Nuts]

Yer, iv'e tried a few now and think i prefer a better draining insole (as above) and the extra cushioning they give. I also find if bought 1/2 size big i can build up to fill the shoe (just not with Asics or keens as they start out pretty big. I tried toe sock a couple of years back and now use thin ankle socks under short thin outers. The combination with the liners (above) holds no water.

Miyata, go easy to start. You may be surprised how weak boot coddled ankles actually are carrying a pack (if not used to it..). Slik looking runners those Merells, I had a pair of Moabs but they were very wide fitting and suffered the slipper effect mentioned above.

I did see a non gtx version of the salewas..

[icemancometh]

why 2 pairs of socks, Nuts? Wouldn't that be warmer/too warm? I went to toe socks for winter climbing(alpine/ice climbing in NZ) as found my feet got too sweaty in the boots. Then I took them running and walking and just keep going thinner and thinner. The toe socks also allows me toe and foot muscles to work more naturally and toughen them up. Also helps some people with blisters but the socks are not for everyone.

I also like a wider forefoot and don't like lacing my shoes up tight unless I have some climbing to do.

Insoles esp those with cushioning encourages me to walk 'louder' and is actually harder on the body for me anyway and doesn't give me as much 'feel' for the terrain, so I;m more likely to kick things, slip, trip on things, go slower as I don't feel as comfortable. I'm most likely to trip on things in boots/heavy footwear where I can't feel my feet or the terrain as well.

I also like the 'rocker' on most runners and find it helps the gait. The lack of cushioning your foot muscles will adapt to given time.

Re approach shoes, heavy and holds water, expensive and not needed except for rocky terrain which there's not much of around here. Good for stuff in the Darrans in NZ maybe.

Last edited by icemancometh on Tue 31 Jan, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

Yer, I guess I have a few (personal) caveats, I mostly have no choice but to often carry a heavy pack, there are but a few hot weeks down here, most of my walking is on hardened tracks and when I get (extended) time off I like high rocky stuff. The other firetails are mesh. I'm just tossing up trying approach shoes again as I do like a firm fit (ie relative to feet swelling). These Salewa are around $100, $60/70 for the mesh type.

[alliecat]

re: 2 pairs of socks...

For me 1 pair of socks = possible blisters, 2 pairs = never had blisters.

The opposite seems to be true for other people. It seems that with feet and footwear, we really are all individuals! (Cue monty python quote...)

[icemancometh]

What kind of fit are Salewas? Never had a pair or tried one on. And where can you get them for that price? Do mesh and approach shoes work though?

Yeah, everyone's different cos I find 2 pairs of socks esp wool ones next to skin gets my feet really sweaty and leads to blisters. Thin toe socks that fit at the heel don't. Other thin socks sometimes can.

For something more expensive shoe wise, there are the Vivo NeoTrails which look good. Light, low, good grip supposedly.

[Nuts]

Its not an open mesh, they use aramid kevlar (how much and how effective against wear is hard to find). Ive read a bunch of reviews, they do look a bit hi-tech so i'm interested in how the bits hold up(?) mostly. Limited sizes here: http://www.e-omc.com/catalog/categories ... roach.html . Postage about $38 (if bought direct from there). The scarpas look ok too but 'look' higher profile (?). I originally had Zamberlans and they were nice but they have canned that model.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Im following this thread with interest as im planning on the Overland track this coming November and i dont want to wear boots as they give me blisters on my heels. i am condidering a pair of Inov8 Roclite 285, i believe there called and maybe s pair of sealskinz waterproof socks

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[icemancometh]

thanks but only limited, ie not mine, size left

Philip, I took a pair of Montrail TRs can't remember the model now, ( non WP) on the Overland in summer with my Injinji liners and was fine. They were very well worn already and were my go to pair. More a spare pair now that they've seen more use. I also worked for two half days with thongs on towards the end of the track where it was mostly track and not much mud, keeping a very good watch out for snakes and going out early and late only. Got wet feet when it rained and in the mud (for some reason I really like walking through it in my runners), but when I pulled into camp, changed into my sleep socks and dried out the liners in no time. Dried overnight when I slept and put back on for the next day.

The girlfriend has since found me a pair of NB Minimus TRs that look interesting and lighter!

In the meantime I've tried Garmont 9.81s (my preferred atm) and the Lowa S-Trail Mesh. Both are find, with the Lowa being narrower and more mesh and slightly more lugs but not more grip underfoot leading to more of a higher ride. Prefer the Garmonts for the low ride and non traditional lace system as I find them better to wear loose and not have to worry about the laces.

Again, the Vivo NeoTrails look ideal but can't get a decent priced pair of EU48s currently, even online

Bottom line, trail runners or approach shoes as mentioned in the thread would be more than enough for the Overland Track

[Peaksnik]

In the search of lighter weight I've tried lightweight trailrunners (Nike) which resulted in soreness at the ball of the foot when covering untracked and rocky ground. The EVA midsole has broken down very quickly too.

Looking for drier feet I've tried SealSkinz but these fail at the first dunking that gets above the sock top.

I thought that I'd found an ideal light shoe in Five Ten's Camp Four. These are extremely comfortable and the sole is very grippy on rock and wet timber BUT when wet each shoe soaks up 200g of water!

[icemancometh]

In the search of lighter weight I've tried lightweight trailrunners (Nike) which resulted in soreness at the ball of the foot when covering untracked and rocky ground. The EVA midsole has broken down very quickly too.

Looking for drier feet I've tried SealSkinz but these fail at the first dunking that gets above the sock top.

I thought that I'd found an ideal light shoe in Five Ten's Camp Four. These are extremely comfortable and the sole is very grippy on rock and wet timber BUT when wet each shoe soaks up 200g of water!

Their predecessors were also good, but like you once I got them wet, they weren't great. Plus they're heavy. Switched to mesh TRs and never looked back.

[Nuts]

I'd recommend something as a transition Phil (before the innov-8) I had the 345's(?) with the most cushioning and they were borderline. A 'rockplate' through the sole helps (as a lot of dedicated trail shoes have).
The advantages of the mesh V solid (or lined/goretex) shell are less in tassie as far as hot feet go. The gore lining, while not waterproof for long, can get you a long way into some summer walks without getting wet (nice if its at all cold).

[Penguin]

I'd recommend something as a transition Phil (before the innov-8) I had the 345's(?) with the most cushioning and they were borderline. A 'rockplate' through the sole helps (as a lot of dedicated trail shoes have).
The advantages of the mesh V solid (or lined/goretex) shell are less in tassie as far as hot feet go. The gore lining, while not waterproof for long, can get you a long way into some summer walks without getting wet (nice if its at all cold).

I am making my first foray into track shoes in Tassie. I have given these a bit of a go

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Tried them on the overland track to WFV and back, WOJ and last weekend into Junction Creek. The studs are interesting. Smooth rock is a challenge, but anything with any texture the grip is great. Have not put my foot in a puddle yet, mud is really good. No feet problems so far.

Keen to try them in really wet weather. In the heat the feet do not get sweaty like in Gortex boots.

I am weighting up whether to use them in the WA's

P