Bushwalk Australia

Recently, I reviewed the Sidewinder Ti-Tri Caldera Cone and the BushBuddy Ultra. Today, I thought I'd do a quick comparison of the two.


Please join me as I compare a Sidewinder Ti-Tri Caldera Cone vs. a BushBuddy Ultra on today's Adventure in Stoving.

HJ

Jim, I get your enthusiasm and I like to read some of your alcohol stove information, BUT I REALLY DON'T like seeing wood fire stove promotion on Australian bushwalking sites/places. A lot of the country is highly susceptible to bushfires which have claimed many lives and properties over the years. There are also issues with vegetation damage obviously which should not be so blatantly promoted imo as a lot of said vegetation is only slow regeneration.

That's just my 2c.

icemancometh wrote:Jim, I get your enthusiasm and I like to read some of your alcohol stove information, BUT I REALLY DON'T like seeing wood fire stove promotion on Australian bushwalking sites/places. A lot of the country is highly susceptible to bushfires which have claimed many lives and properties over the years. There are also issues with vegetation damage obviously which should not be so blatantly promoted imo as a lot of said vegetation is only slow regeneration.

That's just my 2c.

Where I live, we just had the Station Fire which burned about 650 square kilometers of area, killed several people, and destroyed I'm not sure how many homes, but multiple tracts. The fire came within maybe 100m of my mother's home and to less than a km of my place. I am entirely sensitive to issues concerning fire. I am also unforgivingly scathing in my criticism of people who do destructive things in a natural area.

However, I think it's possible to have a fire in a responsible way. I am in general opposed to a complete wood fire ban simply because there are 2% of people who are either scoundrels or fools.

Lastly, I promote nothing. I merely review already popular stoves. While I appreciate your only-too-legitimate concerns, I am not particularly amenable to self-censorship in the form of ignoring well known stoves. Neither am I at a point where I can support a total wood fire ban even though I know full well the destructive power of a wild fire.

HJ

hikin_jim wrote: I am not particularly amenable to self-censorship in the form of ignoring well known stoves.

Good!
I have no intention of buying a wood burning stove but I still want to have the option to read about them

No thanks to patronizing censorship

I have no problems with your stove reviews, esp all the alcohol stove work you've done, even the wood ones. I think enough people know about your site that they can look it up on your site. And I know people still use woodfires in sensitive areas and where they are banned in Australia as evidenced by all the char spots around the bush.

So I welcome your site and your reviews and your opinions as you have a vast experience in this area, but I just don't like seeing them promoted here, the wood burning ones. You can promote the other stoves and comparisons all you want.

That is all.

Here in WA we have extreme issues with fire as well and any kind of stove can potentially start one.
Obviously a wood fire has the extra risk of sparks and as such any sensible person would not use one when it is fire season.
But never underestimate the power of human stupidity...
As for me, I will use my Caldera Cone in whatever of it's three burning options suit my needs and the conditions.
Neither the Caldera Cone or the Bush Buddy leave large scars on the landscape like an open fire, and by reading reviews such as Jim's people can realise the truly useable wood burning option these stoves provide - even in Australia.

Good points, Jacko.

If you want to reduce the amount of wood used (say in sensitive areas) or you want to minimize fire scarring, then a wood stove is just the thing.

This is a photo of one of my cooking sites immediately after use.

There's a little spot that you can see where I've cleared away the leaves, but you can only see it if you look closely. Anyone merely walking by probably wouldn't notice. Give it a week and a little wind and the leaves will drift over and no one will ever know I was there. There are no charred or blackened rocks or any lasting marks.

HJ

Hi Jim,

That Caldera looks like a good bit of kit.

It's great that you could use alcohol or esbit in sensitive areas where only fuel stoves (non wood) are allowed. And then use wood out of fire season and in areas where you are allowed to use wood fires. And it leaves a lot less scarring and uses a lot less wood than the "old conventional" camp fire.

I enjoy reading your reviews on all types of stoves. Here in Australia we don't always hear about all the different stoves all as we are limited in what shops sell over here (thank goodness for the internet).

Just out of interest Jim out of the 100 stoves you have which other 2 would you recommend for being good at burning both alcohol and wood eg a multifuel stove, Other than the Caldera Ti-Tri.

Thanks
Mark

Here in Australia, at least in QLD, not sure about the other states, there's also a law that you are not to remove or destroy any vegetation, alive or dead in our National Parks and that includes timber, as many small creatures hide and make these timbers there home, also the rotten away of timber is the only means of fertilisation that these trees receive, in particular Fraser Island

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the link & review, I have been thinking about one of these for a while.

Time to order a Ti-TRI I think.

I can see a place for one of these. But surely if you're in a sensitive area, the best way to minimize your impact is to not burn wood at all.

I guess wood burning stoves feed our innate desire to make fire, but for the average southern-states Aussie hiker, they don't seem all that practical to me:

In Summer, you really shouldn't be going out with the intention of burning wood, even in one of these. And out of bushfire season, you have such variable weather that you always have to assume you'll need to cook inside your vestibule or in a hut.

They look like fun though.

Iv'e had a couple of cones. The aluminium Caldera is pretty flimsy but the Ti-Tri is a keeper. I really like its simple design and doubt that (in actual use) metho is much less efficient than other fuels. Suffers in the cold but I use it 3 seasons and keep some of the metho in a small nalgene, easy enough to warm up i guess. All iv'e used on a few solo walks for the past couple of years, all (including a couple of days drink supplies) fits inside the 750(?) ml ti pasta pot.

Iv'e used the pot on an open fire and the cone with twigs, it came with a ti base plate. Lots of things can be dangerous in the wrong hands but (that in mind) the environment/safety thing seems like pc pfaff..

I've a bush buddy and support the use of it in the right conditions and environment.
No negative impact at all in my eye. Of course this is in area's that fires are permitted.
It's a great little stove and at 144g's it's a light way to take a stove with no fuel. Works well and a small film canister with some home made cotton bud fire lighters and your good to go.
Even works in the rain with wet wood (that's where the fire lighters come in handy)

If there are a few of you it's a light way to cook but you need a little patients (hey what's the rush to boil water anyway,,,, relax)
Normally I take mine on group trips and someone just takes a small jetboil as a backup.

I can personally say there is no fire scar left from the BB on the ground.
Even the left over ash is just white dust, it really is quite an efficent stove.

Obviously they are not for use in dangerous fire ban conditions etc. You must use a certain amount of common sense where you set up etc.
If they are permitted in a certain area I don't feel there is any reason to be negative towards wood cookers. They are just different that's all.
Mine makes the cut on about half my trips.

anotherwalker wrote: And it leaves a lot less scarring and uses a lot less wood than the "old conventional" camp fire.

With normal use, the Ti-Tri leaves no scarring at all. Just a bit of white powdery ash.

anotherwalker wrote:Just out of interest Jim out of the 100 stoves you have which other 2 would you recommend for being good at burning both alcohol and wood eg a multifuel stove, Other than the Caldera Ti-Tri.

Mark, that's an excellent question, but I haven't tested enough wood stoves to have a good answer for you (other than the Ti-Tri Caldera Cone). The Backcountry Boiler looks good on alcohol, but I haven't yet been able to get my hands on one for testing. The Backcountry Boiler is basically a modern (and ultralight) version of the tried and true Thermette.

HJ

forest wrote:You must use a certain amount of common sense where you set up etc.

Yes.

And I apologize if I didn't make that clear from the beginning. I grew up in an area where severe wild fires are a fact of life. Fire danger is a constant in my planning for any trip, but since most of you don't know me personally, you wouldn't know that about me. I love being out in the bush, and the idea of destroying it through stupidity or carelessness is anathema to me.

Something more to think about: A wood stove makes fire burning a lot safer. Why? Complete combustion. With an "open fire," there's always smoldering embers, embers that can be fanned into flame if the wind kicks up. I believe the greatest danger of fire is not when you're there but rather when there is no one around. If I'm sitting right beside the fire and an ember gets out, I stomp on it. If I'm 20km away and the wind kicks up a fire that I presumed was dead, there's no one about to do anything, and we lose a whole section of countryside -- and quite possibly a whole lot more. With these wood stoves, there typically are not smoldering embers.

After four loads of wood, here's all that's left in a Ti-Tri Caldera Cone:


Now you show me an open fire that burns that efficiently. You can't because they don't. A wood stove makes fire burning a lot safer.

HJ

You would have got a base plate with that grill Jim? Don't carry it? I made a foil plate to use under metho, not taking any chances with peat soils.

Nuts wrote:You would have got a base plate with that grill Jim? Don't carry it? I made a foil plate to use under metho, not taking any chances with peat soils.

Yes, Trail Designs offers a "floor" with the wood burning set up for their Ti-Tri cones.

Here it is as I set things up:


Complete set up:


In terms of low impact/LNT camping, I think the floor is the way to go. If you buy the floor at the time you buy the Cone, then it's only $10 (USD). Money well spent to take care of the environment and minimize fire danger.

HJ

In terms of LNT, you take a gas/metho stove.

north-north-west wrote:In terms of LNT, you take a gas/metho stove.

Eh? Maybe. But have you seen an oil refinery up close? Or worked in on an oil drilling operation. I have. Even metho which in Australia is based on agriculture has its costs.

Sure, there are a lot of areas where wood fires are inappropriate, but there are areas where the impact can't even be noticed.

HJ

I think all the nay sayers in this thread are missing the point of the Ti-tri.

The Tri bit refers to it's 3 fuel options, wood, metho or solid fuel tablets.

I purchased mine due to it having excellent wind protection and stability for my metho stove. It comes with a "12-10" stove which is made of a pepsi can and smaller Red Bull can.
It works fine but I have done a comparison and my Evernew titanium stove actually boiled 600ml about 2 minutes quicker and will be the stove I take with it.
I still intend to use my metho stove as my primary stove.
BUT!
1. The Ti-Tri came with 3 Esbit tablets which I will keep in my pack as well.
2. Wherever conditions and materials allow I will use the wood burning option as it uses miniscule bits of wood and there is a lot of pleasure in a "real" fire at night. (And yes, I spent an extra $10 and got the titanium base plate.)

The combination of options will mean that I carry about half the metho I would otherwise (I always carried at least an extra 50% over expected useage before for safety).

From my point of view it is no heavier as a total package and gives me more than enough options and reduces any risk of having no hot food/coffee which is the one comfort I will not go without.

Cheers
Jacko

Very well summed up, Jacko.

The strength of the Ti-Tri set up is it's flexibility -- and it's an equally good set up for all three fuels.

The other thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that if you do burn wood, you burn far less than if you were making an open fire.

HJ

First off I have to say I am in favour of twig fires, the use of very small wood can actually slightly lessen the risk of catastrophic fire ( if we all used them to lessen the fuel load there would be lower level of kindling on the forest floor and no floor to canopy fuel path ) but honestly I see little reason here to swap my Hobo tin can for the newer high-tec models.
A10 cans are free and easy to convert, the only downside is you really need a specific billy size for them to be maximally effective
the high purchase cost will buy me a lot of Shellite and kerosene for those times and areas when a twig stove is inappropriate

Yes, the Ti-Tri is definitely expensive. You could buy an awful lot of Shellite for that amount of money.

The nice thing about the Ti-Tri is that you can easily use multiple fuels on a single walk. If part of a walk you can burn wood, but part you cannot, the Ti-Tri is a very nice set up.

HJ

Up until now I haven't used an alcohol burner inside my hobo stove but there is no reason I can't; except that I have never made one or owned a Trangia burner. I could have used the old MSR inside I 'spose but the new one is a little tight.

Moondog55 wrote:Up until now I haven't used an alcohol burner inside my hobo stove but there is no reason I can't; except that I have never made one or owned a Trangia burner. I could have used the old MSR inside I 'spose but the new one is a little tight.

Yeah, and it'll work in good conditions. It won't be the best arrangement, but you can probably get by.

HJ