Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

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Re: Sanitarium

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 10 Nov, 2013 4:25 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:Sorry, I thought it was obvious. Type II diabetes in the majority of cases can be controlled simply by good diet, and simply wouldn't even occur in the first place (in many cases) if a good diet was adhered to. The increase of sugar in our western diets parallels the increase in diabetes very closely. Before synthetic insulin, diet was the only way to control it and in many cases they did quite well that way.

Sorry, not so obvious. And if that's the premise of further statements, then the facts better be correct.

For a fact, NIDDM has been identified as a separate entity for more than a thousand years. Diet and body habitus certainly will contribute to the unmasking of this condition but it's by no means the sole factors. In the meantime, biguanide class of oral anti-diabetic medicine has been used for a few centuries while a potent form of this class of drug in the form of Metformin has been actively used since the 1950s. It's hardly a modern solution and diet certainly was not the only way to control and treat the condition.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby geoskid » Sun 10 Nov, 2013 6:41 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:
photohiker wrote:Has anyone actually read the guidelines geoskid linked?


Yeah, I was a bit out of line and have subsequently edited my post. Me and my soap box. And it's not even my box.

No worries Soab, I should have presented my post like Phiker did for me (thanks Ph).
All I was trying to highlight was that the basic message of a simple balanced, nutritious diet coupled with exercise being the way to good health has been around for a long time, and there is no conspiracy going on from the top.(OSM's post).
I've got no argument with something being wrong with how our society approaches healthy eating - I'm not even sure if consumers are the drivers or the driven - or whether consumers/food manufactures/advertisers are walking hand in hand along a track to nowhere, only to eventually turn around and come back again. (did you like that little (sad) attempt at a metaphor :D)
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby geoskid » Sun 10 Nov, 2013 7:50 pm

Son of a Beach wrote: Me and my soap box. And it's not even my box.


I'm quite attached to my collection of soap boxes, I like to pretend that when I climb on I am helping to make a difference.
Once I zone out everyone with their fingers in their ears going "lalalala", it's quite therapeutic. :D
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Re: Sanitarium

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 7:03 am

oops
Last edited by Son of a Beach on Mon 11 Nov, 2013 7:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 7:06 am

geoskid wrote:
Son of a Beach wrote:
photohiker wrote:Has anyone actually read the guidelines geoskid linked?


Yeah, I was a bit out of line and have subsequently edited my post. Me and my soap box. And it's not even my box.

No worries Soab, I should have presented my post like Phiker did for me (thanks Ph).
All I was trying to highlight was that the basic message of a simple balanced, nutritious diet coupled with exercise being the way to good health has been around for a long time, and there is no conspiracy going on from the top.(OSM's post).
I've got no argument with something being wrong with how our society approaches healthy eating - I'm not even sure if consumers are the drivers or the driven - or whether consumers/food manufactures/advertisers are walking hand in hand along a track to nowhere, only to eventually turn around and come back again. (did you like that little (sad) attempt at a metaphor :D)


I agree that I don't think there is any big conspiracy with the food manufacturers. For them, it's a simple matter of whatever makes them money. In the end, that's why they exist - it, to make money, not to provide healthy food. In most cases if they make the food more attractive, they will sell more, and in order to make it attractive, they often add stuff to it that is unhealthy. It's just marketing. It's not done overtly, and is actually hidden to some extent in many cases, but I don't think there's any collusion or conspiracy around it.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 7:12 am

GPSGuided wrote:
Son of a Beach wrote:Sorry, I thought it was obvious. Type II diabetes in the majority of cases can be controlled simply by good diet, and simply wouldn't even occur in the first place (in many cases) if a good diet was adhered to. The increase of sugar in our western diets parallels the increase in diabetes very closely. Before synthetic insulin, diet was the only way to control it and in many cases they did quite well that way.

Sorry, not so obvious. And if that's the premise of further statements, then the facts better be correct.

For a fact, NIDDM has been identified as a separate entity for more than a thousand years. Diet and body habitus certainly will contribute to the unmasking of this condition but it's by no means the sole factors. In the meantime, biguanide class of oral anti-diabetic medicine has been used for a few centuries while a potent form of this class of drug in the form of Metformin has been actively used since the 1950s. It's hardly a modern solution and diet certainly was not the only way to control and treat the condition.


OK, so now what's your point? :-)

Are you suggesting that diabetes cannot be controlled or prevented in most people by maintaining a good diet? Because that's all I was getting at with that post.

I never said it was a sole factor - in fact if you read my post, I agreed with you on that. I suppose that I was referring to the symptoms of diabetes and that many (even most?) people need not ever suffer from it if they have a good diet.

I'm a good target for being shot down in flames when I don't get all my reasoning exactly spot on, but please try to aim at the point.

According to the Harvard School of Public Health:

Type 2 Diabetes Can Be Prevented


Although the genes you inherit may influence the development of type 2 diabetes, they take a back seat to behavioral and lifestyle factors. Data from the Nurses’ Health Study suggest that 90 percent of type 2 diabetes in women can be attributed to five such factors: excess weight, lack of exercise, a less-than-healthy diet, smoking, and abstaining from alcohol.


Data from the Health Professionals Follow-up Study indicate that a “Western” diet, combined with lack of physical activity and excess weight, dramatically increases the risk of type 2 diabetes in men.


This is really what my point was. If you disagree with this, or don't want to engage on this point, then I guess I don't think I'll bother to continue this discussion as it was the only point I was trying to make in that post.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby stry » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 7:51 pm

corvus wrote:Well who would have "thunk" that a simple snack bar would incur so much input , I eat Red Meat, Salami ,Pork Crackling ,Butter and real Cheese occasionally, also eat my fair share of veggies every day so why this big scare about a simple ( I have never eaten one) Sanitarium One Square Meal Bar :?:
How many are you really going to eat one in your life as opposed to lets say a sausage in bread at the supermarket,a Maccas,home BBQ with nice fat lamb chump chops et all :D
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 8:36 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:This is really what my point was. If you disagree with this, or don't want to engage on this point, then I guess I don't think I'll bother to continue this discussion as it was the only point I was trying to make in that post.

Thank you SoaB. I think the point is a bit lost somewhere and my brain "hurts". Time for a new line of discussion...

Was just watching Michael Mosley's "Eat, Fast and Live Longer" (2012) on SBS1... Eat less (caloric reduced) and live longer was the message. Another tough message to sell to our society. 8)
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby stry » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:25 am

GPSGuided wrote:Was just watching Michael Mosley's "Eat, Fast and Live Longer" (2012) on SBS1... Eat less (caloric reduced) and live longer was the message. Another tough message to sell to our society. 8)


A friend of mine took the 2/7 fast up when this program screened some time ago. This option, for a variety of reasons to do with his social circumstances, was easier than conventional reductions of his calorific intake.

Not only has a large amount of weight been lost, which was the aim, but general health and zinger factor are noticeably improved. This could of course be due to the weight loss, and it is the classic "sample of one". I just admire the resolve of anyone who can fast for 48 hours every week.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:29 am

stry wrote:... I just admire the resolve of anyone who can fast for 48 hours every week.

Not even a beer? ;)

Yes, for many people, it can take an incredible amount of resolve to just change a minor daily routine, a significant dietary change can certainly be a challenge. One of those "end of the rainbow" thing.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby wayno » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:39 am

some of the latest research says if you're sitting youre not burning fat you need to be standing at least or exerting a similar amount of energy as standing at least.
and how long you spend on your feet is more important to long term halth and lifespan than how intensely you exercise...
i dont have references to hand , i'm at work and a bit busy to track it down
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:43 am

wayno wrote:some of the latest research says if you're sitting youre not burning fat you need to be standing at least or exerting a similar amount of energy as standing at least.

Dramatic messages like these are all in the criteria. If someone sits there for 30 days and only drink water, I'd be surprised if there's no fat "burned". Otherwise exercise, bringing up the HR, sweat, will obviously increase one's metabolic rate above a basal rate. Goes back to caloric balance again.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby photohiker » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:47 am

I thought that 2/7 diet was a restricted diet on the 2 days, not a total fast?

Wayno, I've thrown my old desk away. I'm using a sit/stand desk now, probably standing for 70% of the time at the desk.

Not losing weight, but will update this post when I have my 100th birthday lol.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby wayno » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:48 am

well probably fat burning gets turned off when other energy is present such as sugar and carbs... whereas when you're moving the body will burn a mix of fat and sugars, the body wants to spare sugars because of the limited supply and tehy are important for feeding the brain and some ogrgans.
theres a finite amount of energy you can get from fat, so duration of exercise usually burns more fat... frmo what i've read you might beurn half to three quarters of grams of fat a minute exercising, a top athlete might get up to a gram or slightly more. and thats 9 calories a minute or 540 calories an hour, but thats not everyone, some people may only be getting half that amount from far, which won't cover you for the most intense exercise...
why it would then turn off burning fat at least some of the time while sitting, i dont know.
if researchers are tesing only people who are eating regularly then that may skew the result.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby wayno » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 7:49 am

photohiker wrote:I thought that 2/7 diet was a restricted diet on the 2 days, not a total fast?

Wayno, I've thrown my old desk away. I'm using a sit/stand desk now, probably standing for 70% of the time at the desk.

Not losing weight, but will update this post when I have my 100th birthday lol.


maybe you have more muscle now and less fat so no weight change yet....? muscle more heavy by volume than fat... dont need much extra muscle to cover for extra fat loss.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby LandSailor » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 8:08 am

Michael Mosley has done some great docos. For anyone interested you can watch Eat, Fast and Live Longer here.
Also The Truth About Exercise is another good one of his.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 8:12 am

wayno wrote:well probably fat burning gets turned off when other energy is present such as sugar and carbs...

Our metabolic pathways are full of negative feedback and control loops. For a start, there's hardly a time when there's no sugar or carb. It's all a question of relative levels. The switching mechanism isn't exactly like traffic light. Doesn't work like that.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 8:15 am

LandSailor wrote:Michael Mosley has done some great docos. For anyone interested you can watch Eat, Fast and Live Longer here.
Also The Truth About Exercise is another good one of his.

Thanks for the links. Yes, his documentaries to my judgement are well balanced and provided quality information for the audience. My Mr13 loves it too.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 8:39 am

Well I have had my morning fix of stimulants and my sugar fix for the AM [ breakfast coffee, hot, very strong and very sweet] so I think I'll now go and make a greasy fried egg and bacon sandwich

Perhaps I should change my forum name to "(ONE SQUARE MEAL)" OSM for short???
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby wayno » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 9:11 am

GPSGuided wrote:
wayno wrote:well probably fat burning gets turned off when other energy is present such as sugar and carbs...

Our metabolic pathways are full of negative feedback and control loops. For a start, there's hardly a time when there's no sugar or carb. It's all a question of relative levels. The switching mechanism isn't exactly like traffic light. Doesn't work like that.


i've only got limited time to respond so i cant elborate taht much
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 9:44 am

Moondog55 wrote:Perhaps I should change my forum name to "(ONE SQUARE MEAL)" OSM for short???

Sorry, that "OSM" moniker has been taken on this forum. Try another... :P
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby perfectlydark » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 9:55 am

Between onestepmore, one square meal and open street map I dont know what to think anymore
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 10:33 am

GPSGuided wrote:
Moondog55 wrote:Perhaps I should change my forum name to "(ONE SQUARE MEAL)" OSM for short???

Sorry, that "OSM" moniker has been taken on this forum. Try another... :P


LOL
Howzabout CBS Cheese & Bacon Sandwich??? Now to look for another jaffle maker

Interestingly I find that when I change my exercise routine I find my appetite for sweet sugary things changes at the same time and I want more spice and protein than anything. Everything is connected to everything else
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby wayno » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 10:48 am

just go out and get some exercise... and burn the same calories ina fraction of the time , then tuck into food sooner
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby icefest » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 1:21 pm

Back to the titular topic, has anyone tried scottish square sausage? It is a perfect 'square meal' for a hangover.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 2:23 pm

No, but I have tried [ and liked] American pork breakfast patties, available in both round and square to suit different buns, some brands even taste like meat.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Onestepmore » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 2:50 pm

perfectlydark wrote:Between onestepmore, one square meal and open street map I dont know what to think anymore


I like to keep people guessing

I actually ate part of one of these the other day (they are in our packs as emergency rations, but have a short shelf life)
Very sweet, but I would eat anything in an emergency
Nice chewy texture
The dogs were very enthusiastic when I gave them the rest!

It's not you eat on one day, it's what you eat every day....
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 3:17 pm

Apart from being too sweet for me the short shelf life is what will stop me from buying any more. I like my emergency rations to be shelf stable for years if not decades
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby stry » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 6:35 pm

photohiker wrote:I thought that 2/7 diet was a restricted diet on the 2 days, not a total fast?


You are correct PH (nice pun there in the context of this thread?) but "restricted" is rather euphemistic. The calorific allowance on the two "fasting" days is pretty miniscule - equates to something like a cup of clear soup each day, I think.
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Re: Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

Postby stry » Tue 12 Nov, 2013 6:39 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Apart from being too sweet for me the short shelf life is what will stop me from buying any more. I like my emergency rations to be shelf stable for years if not decades


Dog I'm not too fussed about what I eat on trip of only a few days, as long as it is sufficient in calories, and reasonably balanced, but aren't you concerned about what creates that long shelf life ?

I seem to recall that Mountain House comes in big cans with a 25 year shelf life. If so, what is added, or removed, from what presumably started as food, to create that 25 year shelf life ?
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