Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

[Picaro]

Heres my understanding , kind of in a nutshell.

Low density lipoproteins can be destabilised by oxygenated free radicals, and possibly cause damage in the cardio vascular system. LDL's are not cholesterol, they are transport units. Risk is not so much about totals of lipoproteins in the blood, but the ratio of low density to high density. ( I think I recall there is even 2 types of LDL, one more a problem than the other.
The lipoproteins are not the cholesterol itself, which is transported to damaged areas in an effort to repair the damage.
It is believed that systemic inflammation is responsible for the majority of damage to the cardio vascular system. A scan for C-reactive proteins is one of the indicators used to ascertain levels of inflammation . Polyunsaturated oils are looked upon by many as the biggest source of systemic inflammation in modern folk.

I'll stop there before i get totally carried away on a rave most wouldn't care for.

[wayno]

i've found an article explaining how oxycholesterol affects the arteries and health

http://www.news-medical.net/news/200908 ... eting.aspx

[Picaro]

when the yolk gets hard boiled the cholesterol is changed into oxycholesterol which can damage body tissues like artery walls.

Can you point me to the source of this information?

Heres something on it for a starter.http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/18/6/977.long

But keep in mind….ingested cholesterol is a different can of worms to internally produced cholesterol.

[wayno]

there is VLDL very low density lipoproteins. i can only gues they arent much better than LDL in their stability , since lower density lipoproteins are the ones most likely to be damaged

[GPSGuided]

And perhaps why Dr Aseem Molhatra, a cardiologist from the UK made the point "eight million Britons take statins yet there has been no major impact on heart disease trends".

Without specific data, one can but speculate. An alternative and just as plausible scenario being, because the use of statin under NHS is well regulated to those high risk patients, those with pre-existing CV diseases, those individuals' life were prolonged than when untreated. They still will die.

[GPSGuided]

when the yolk gets hard boiled the cholesterol is changed into oxycholesterol which can damage body tissues like artery walls.

Better not drink water. Drinking water can intoxicate and kill!

This is the typical response of lay people who reads one study and then get all paranoid. This is where experts in the field will contribute, by considering the relative effect of all and determine what's important and relevant in real life, not just some narrowly focused laboratory data. You may be right in another 10-15 years, but for now, it's just whacky to act one data in a piecemeal fashion, or better not eat anything. Oh wait, breathing is bad for you too due to air contaminants, especially in major cities.

[Picaro]

Eggs, Danger cholesterol……oops, sorry, enjoy your eggs.

Stay out of the sun! Slip slop get a Vit D deficiency. Sorry 'bout that, we stuffed up a few people with that one.

Thalidamide !

Hospital buildings that have to be scrapped because they can't control bacteria like they think they can.

Millions of people suffering the effects of dysbiosis…..

Hopefully soon we can add the recommendation of a diet full of processed polyunsaturates and grains to the list of backtracking.

[Picaro]

But one thing I think we can all agree on…..

This thread is proof that we are not getting enough bush time lately !!

[LandSailor]

An alternative and just as plausible scenario being, because the use of statin under NHS is well regulated to those high risk patients, those with pre-existing CV diseases

Doesnt seem at all like its limited to only high risk pre-existing patients:-

Four million patients on statins don't need them: Half of those on cholesterol-reduction pills risk side effects with little chance of benefit, doctors warn

Interesting quote at the end:-

"part of the problem was that GPs were given cash incentives to check people’s cholesterol level, meaning they focused on that and failed to make a broader assessment of risk.
‘Financial incentives are distorting clinical medicine,’ he warned."

Hardly surprising the drug companies are doing everything in their power to encourage the over-prescription of statins.

[corvus]

Having a familial high cholesterol count I often said to my several GP's at the time nah ! I don't want to take those drugs to fix it I will use exercise and diet for that
Fast forward to my recent cholesterol induced heart problem 95% blockage (missed the heart attack only just) and had the big stent inserted and proscribed a Statin drug by the Cardiologist ,result is a lower bad and higher high good cholesterol count so I for one will continue with this medication .
Just wish those of you with so little knowledge about this other than hearsay and hyperbole can take a deep breath and ask yourselves if taking Statins would save your own life would you use them
corvus

[photohiker]

Having a familial high cholesterol count I often said to my several GP's at the time nah ! I don't want to take those drugs to fix it I will use exercise and diet for that
Fast forward to my recent cholesterol induced heart problem 95% blockage (missed the heart attack only just) and had the big stent inserted and proscribed a Statin drug by the Cardiologist ,result is a lower bad and higher high good cholesterol count so I for one will continue with this medication .
Just wish those of you with so little knowledge about this other than hearsay and hyperbole can take a deep breath and ask yourselves if taking Statins would save your own life would you use them
corvus

+1

Well Corvus, I think this is history. For once I'm inclined to agree with you.

[neilmny]

Well said Corvus.
I refer to my earlier posts on this topic, I had the attack and I'm extremely lucky to
be here.

[matagi]

Corvus, if you have familial hypercholesterolaemia, you are in a different category.

The thing that really gets up my nose is this "good" cholesterol and "bad" cholesterol concept. The person who coined that ought to be shot. The body makes both high density and low density lipoproteins. LDL (or "bad" cholesterol) as it is known is how cholesterol is delivered to cells, and cells need cholesterol to keep their cell membranes fluid, so it is in fact essential.

As with all things pertaining to the human body, heart disease is multifactorial so singling out one factor to the exclusion of all else is quite wrongheaded and poor medicine to boot.

[corvus]

Well Michael just goes to show we were not really ever that much at ends
corvus

[corvus]

Corvus, if you have familial hypercholesterolaemia, you are in a different category.

The thing that really gets up my nose is this "good" cholesterol and "bad" cholesterol concept. The person who coined that ought to be shot. The body makes both high density and low density lipoproteins. LDL (or "bad" cholesterol) as it is known is how cholesterol is delivered to cells, and cells need cholesterol to keep their cell membranes fluid, so it is in fact essential.

As with all things pertaining to the human body, heart disease is multifactorial so singling out one factor to the exclusion of all else is quite wrongheaded and poor medicine to boot.

mataig
Fess up are you a medico or what ?? coming across as one with limited knowledge is a bit of a worry other wise IMHO
corvus

[wayno]

high LDL cholesterol. may head to clogged arteries and it may not, its not down to how much cholesterol is there its down to how the food you ate was prepared and what else you've eaten as well to enable the artery walls to get damaged to get teh cholesterol sticking to the artery walls

[Picaro]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10 ... afdc9af060

[neilmny]

Removed by poster

[neilmny]

.......As with all things pertaining to the human body, heart disease is multifactorial so singling out one factor to the exclusion of all else is quite wrongheaded and poor medicine to boot.

I didn't realise that anyone was singling out just one aspect.....it's just the one aspect (statins) that is being discussed.
Certainly no one under treatment for a heart attack is told ..... just take statins and all will be well, far from it.

[Picaro]

Strange, it comes up for me….I'll see if I can sort it out.

[photohiker]

Strange, it comes up for me….I'll see if I can sort it out.

Just link the abstract (or copy/paste it here)

[neilmny]

Strange, it comes up for me….I'll see if I can sort it out.

Picaro, I was able to view thw PDF via your test link in the test section. There
must be some difference in the link above.

It is an interesting article too.

[Picaro]

Strange how these computer thingies work. I copied a link to the article and that works, but copying the browser address doesn't.
Yeah, I thought it was interesting. The Scandinavians and also the Japanese do some good work in these fields.

[LandSailor]

Strange how these computer thingies work. I copied a link to the article and that works, but copying the browser address doesn't.
Yeah, I thought it was interesting. The Scandinavians and also the Japanese do some good work in these fields.

Thanks for that Picaro...here's the working link:-

Is the use of cholesterol in mortality risk algorithms in clinical guidelines valid?
Ten years prospective data from the Norwegian HUNT 2 study

Conclusion: Based on epidemiological analysis of updated and comprehensive population data, we found that the underlying assumptions regarding cholesterol in clinical guidelines for CVD prevention might be flawed: cholesterol emerged as an overestimated risk factor in our study, indicating that guideline information might be misleading, particularly for women with ‘moderately elevated’ cholesterol levels in the range of 5–7 mmol L-1 .......

[neilmny]

The study was regarding total cholesterol and might be flawed seems to be the key
to all these referencees......I'll wait till we have a definite finding before becoming
concerned. My view of the figures was a consistant lower risk for lower rates, but with an
interesting increase in mortality in the 6 to 7 range followed by a lower percentage above that range
but still higher than a low total cholesterol.....I guess you can view them through your own eyes...
...which reminds me I might be the sole winner of division 1 in Tattslotto too, I'd better check my numbers!

[photohiker]

Seems we're in for a bit of an unhealthy population for a while regardless of the state of the debate on fats:

New data from the Australian Heart Foundation shows the weight of the average Australian adult has increased by more than 5.7kgs over the past 25 years.

The foundation says the average weight of an Australia man is now 85.9kg, up 6.5kg, while the average woman is 5.7kg heavier at 71.1kg.

It has used the figures to warn of a rapid spike in diabetes, heart disease and cancer, unless growing rates of obesity are brought under control.

Robert Grenfell from the Heart Foundation says it is a major concern that two in three people fall outside the healthy weight range.

"Every two in three Australians is now either overweight or obese," he said.

"Now this, of course, is alarming because the diseases that are a consequence of this [include] diabetes, heart disease and some cancers.

"We're going to see a rapid increase in these diseases over the next 10 to 20 years if nothing happens."

Dr Grenfell says the proportion of obese adults has tripled since 1980.

"We've nearly got half a million Australians and they are what we call morbidly obese and that is a BMI of over 40 and they are at extreme risk of an early death from any of those diseases," he said.

"But again from 1980, where 60 per cent were at normal, healthy weight, we now only have 35 per cent of Australians.

"This of course is a message that we really need to do something about this."

So in 34 years our population has gone from 60% normal range weight to just 35% normal range. That is a scary statistic.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-23/h ... ng/5277850

[Picaro]

Note the correlation with the dates. When the big cholesterol scare and the saturated fat malarky started in the '70s, folk were told go low fat, eat more grains and carbs and all manner of processed and fast foods.....and folk start getting fat and auto immune disease rates sky rocket.

[photohiker]

Alternatively, MacDonalds started in Australia in the '70's and was full song by the early 80's.

We can argue what people eat to become overweight or obese, but isn't the real issue excess intake and the corollary, insufficient exercise?

[icefest]

Note the correlation with the dates. When the big cholesterol scare and the saturated fat malarky started in the '70s, folk were told go low fat, eat more grains and carbs and all manner of processed and fast foods.....and folk start getting fat and auto immune disease rates sky rocket.

Correlation =/= Causation

[GPSGuided]

Correlation =/= Causation

LOL! Makes sense. Global warming, elevated sea level, greater surface of Earth covered by water, more pirates. Consistent with natural selection's supply and demand.