Sanitarium "One Square Meal"

[wayno]

eat your butter!

[metastable]

i remember a running mate of mine was right into his nutritional supplemnts, he'd take measured amounts of specific amino acid powders....

from memory I think he was raving on about the amino acid cysteine and how good it was for recovery.. he got me to try some, so i took a small spoonful of the powder and put it on my tong then went to grap a cup of water.... big mistake.
It was so acidic , by the time i took a mouthful of water my tongue was already bleeding... so somehow your digtestion manages to deal with acidic amino acids like that without letting them cause damage to the body

The Gastric Acid in your stomach has a pH of around 1-2. That's acid that your body actually produces, specifically to deal with the digestion of proteins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastric_acid

[wayno]

yup but the question is your body has to handle the acidity of acidic nutrients like this as it ferries them all around the body....

[metastable]

I would assume it doesn't have to. One would assume that once broken down to their basic nutritional components, the nutrients leave the stomach in their normal lower pH state. Otherwise I imagine we'd be in a world of hurt...

[wayno]

amino acids are the basic components of protein and they are all acids

[icefest]

I thought of this thread when I saw this article published by The Conversation

[wayno]

the article generalises, its near impossible to clog your arteries with coconut fat which is almost all saturated fat, its a different type of saturated fat to most animal saturated fat, its liquid at body temperature, it doesnt cling to artery walls on its own, its very hard to get it to hard sticky state like most vegetable fats or animal fats where it will stuck to artery walls.,,, people in the tropics can eat large amounts of coconut fat and never get heart disease... its digested quickly compared to animal fats....
and what else are people eating in the west who usually eat high saturated fat diets,, chances are they wont be watching their sodium intake, high sodium intake will also clog your arteries and if they arent watching the quality of the vegetable fat they eat that will combine with animal saturated fat and clog the arteries. eating sugar increases your bodies production of cholesteral, leaving you with more LDL cholesterol. prone to end up sticking to artery walls if you eat a poor diet.... similarly too much alcohol produces too much cholesterol... all these factors need to be considered with people who are claimed to be getting heart disease from eating too much saturated fat.... theres often more than one smoking gun as causative factors. its like saying people people with older ages are more likely to die than those with younger ages, and the age number is what makes you at risk of dying..... because the statistics show that is the case....

[Onestepmore]

Wayno, you should see if you can watch the Catalyst segment that aired last night on the ABC in Aus. I think you'd agree with many of its points.

Icefest, did you watch it?

Sugar (more specifically fructose) is the bad guy when it comes to increased cardiovascular disease risk, not saturated fat per se. The two together make for a lethal cocktail. Add polyunsaturated fats and omega six FA (seed oils) and increase cancer risks.
It's a fascinating subject.
The general public have been fed a lemon in terms of national dietary guidelines, which were based on flawed scientific method, and sponsorship by the food marketing industry, and drug companies such as those that make cholesterol reducing medication.

[wayno]

good watch. well, how surprising was that..., cant wait for next weeks show

i wouldnt completely bag fructose, eating fruit full of fructose isnt hearly as bad as when you take the fructose when its been extracted from the fruit as in fruit juice, it behaves a bit differently in the body when you concentrate it like that. snacking on fruit is generally good for you.

[Onestepmore]

Yeah fructose is designed to come with a healthy dose of fibre attached.

[wayno]

ah, i do now

[Onestepmore]

The Health Foundation's Facebook site has gone into serious damage control. People are angry they've been sold a lemon. Pity it's so serious, or it'd be pretty funny.

[icefest]

The Health Foundation's Facebook site has gone into serious damage control. People are angry they've been sold a lemon. Pity it's so serious, or it'd be pretty funny.

I can't find the site, would you be able to link it for me?

[vieve]

I think it is the Heart Foundation Facebook page not the Health Foundation's...
https://www.facebook.com/NationalHeartF ... 2775754453

[Onestepmore]

OK, now I am back home, here are some links

The ABC Catalyst programme that was aired last night, Part 1
video download 'Heart of The Matter'
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/vodcast/default.htm
transcript
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3876219.htm

The Heart Foundation Facebook site
https://www.facebook.com/NationalHeartFoundation
They have no media statement on their web page

(apologies, I was on my phone today and it auto-corrected a typo to 'health')

The revised Swedish Nutritional Gudelines
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/sweden ... nutrition/

[wayno]

i missed who the expert aussie robot on the programme was who was stating the old status quo regarding a healthy diet, was he from The Health Foundation? its a problem when people dont research widely enough and only agree with a certain camp.. bit like working in a corporation full of yes men as the company goes down the gurgler,...

[wayno]

interesting interview with the catalyst journalist and why she made the programme

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3876134.htm

[GPSGuided]

All the talk of special diets... Seriously, has anyone been able to demonstrate a longevity benefit comparing the various championed diets and a good and simple balanced diet per health department/heart foundation guidelines?

[wayno]

what they do go on about with special diets is how they affect cholesterol and blood fat levels short term... and how it supposedly promises better health in the long term

[GPSGuided]

Yes, all relates to the latest scare in the media.

Problem is, when playing with specific chemicals (which food constituents are), one can only guess the longer term effects whilst often without hard evidence of true efficacy. Then, they cost extra coins. Never seen more people so eager to be lifelong guinea pigs and part money. But they do give people hope and lots of conversation starters. That's also worth something.

[wayno]

oh and the special diets can clean the arteries out...
i believe also people following the aitken diet tend develop health problems long term

[GPSGuided]

oh and the special diets can clean the arteries out...
i believe also people following the aitken diet tend develop health problems long term

Arterial diseases develop from our teens. If we didn't do the right things, it's a little too late to expect complete clean out a few decades hence. Although aggressive cholesterol lowering treatments have demonstrated some reversal of intimal disease, but if one has directly inspected plaques of those in their 50s and above, it's a bit futile to expect significant reversals without massive expenditure, if that. Whilst focusing on the single organ, considerations also need to be made on the effect of therapy on all the other organs of the body. Not simple.

Hard to know what Aitken diet followers get up to as it's not a controlled cohort with many possible confounding factors. The only verified special diet in my mind is the vegetarian diet as practiced by Buddhist monks, one that has been applied for more than a thousand years. They eat, they work, they meditate and they are healthy and many live to a ripe old age. At least we see no evidence of harm.

[wayno]

well you can clean out clogged arteries faster than you think, but i wouldnt advise the sort of diet you have to eat to do it, its a low fat diet.... causes as many problems as it tries to solve...

[Onestepmore]

All the talk of special diets... Seriously, has anyone been able to demonstrate a longevity benefit comparing the various championed diets and a good and simple balanced diet per health department/heart foundation guidelines?

GPS that's the whole point!
The guidelines are a lot of bollocks!

Sweden has completely revised theirs - have a look at the link above

Also, the death rate from cardiovascular disease has decreased, but not the incidence of it. Doctors are just better at keeping people alive now than what they were 40 years ago. It's not the 'recommended diet' that has stopped more people dying from blocked arteries etc, just better ways of treating it.
Cancer deaths however have increased....

[GPSGuided]

well you can clean out clogged arteries faster than you think, but i wouldnt advise the sort of diet you have to eat to do it, its a low fat diet.... causes as many problems as it tries to solve...

Doesn't quite work. The really really quick way is with an diamond studded high speed atherectomy device. The lumen just looks pristine after, but... Old bodies just don't have it in them any more.

[photohiker]

interesting interview with the catalyst journalist and why she made the programme

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3876134.htm

I've got a foot in both camps on this. There is no one single culprit for heart disease so it is not wise to pick one and claim that reducing cholesterol or saturated fats alone will solve the problem. However, in people who have poor dietary habits and little to no exercise it makes sense to try and pick off the biggest problems. Given that patients like that are unlikely to change their diets significantly, the poor doc doesn't have a lot of options does he?

As for the Journo, I have to ask why she favoured medical bloggers who sold books and courses etc on their websites over researchers for the anti-cholesterol side. The programme seemed to be a little unbalanced with most of the dialogue on one side of the debate. It's interesting to read the posts by David Sullivan in the comments of the Conversation piece (he was also interviewed in the Catalyst programme)

Perhaps it might help if I state them slightly differently, namely:
1) Busting myths requires proof whereas the current publicity is based on personal opinions.
2) Diet is important, as are consistent messages about diet.
3) There are many interacting components to our diet, many aspects of diet which are neutral or potentially beneficial, and several that are adverse. Saturated and trans unsaturated fats remain detrimental for cardiovascular disease.
4) The associations between diet and obesity are different from the associations between diet and cardiovascular disease.
5) The effect of diets are most clearly evident when different populations of people are compared because the differences in diet between populations are greater than those within populations.
6) The Mediterranean Diet is a low saturated fat, high unsaturated fat diet. In the most famous example, mono and polyunsaturated margarine replaced butter.
7) The problems with health in Western society largely stem from too much food and too little activity. On this background, it is better not to replace saturated fat with simple or refined carbohydrate.
8) There are also vested interests on the saturated fat side of the debate.
9) Cardiovascular disease is sky-rocketing in the developing world. Consumption of both sugar and saturated fat has increased in these countries, but saturated fat more so.

There is more there in the comments if you like wading through hundreds of comments...

[GPSGuided]

If it's the Dr David Sullivan I know, then that would be my gold reference on this subject. An expert in the field with established clinical track record and without conflict of interest.

[wayno]

point nine is selective,
consumption of salt has skyrocketed as well. a known cause of clogging of arteries.
and theres teh recently documented issue of polyunsaturated fats who's consumption has skyrocketed increasing the likelihood of clogging of the arteries as well.
in recent years saturated fat coonsumption has levelled off in developed countries and polyunsaturated fats have increased, the rate of strokes among young adults is increasing as well.

[photohiker]

point nine is selective,
consumption of salt has skyrocketed as well. a known cause of clogging of arteries.

Have you got a reference for that wayno? My understanding is that salt increases BP putting the spotlight on the compromised arteries.

The second instalment in this series runs tonight, apparently putting the spotlight on Statins. Lets hope we get more research and balance in this one.

[GPSGuided]

Salt link to hypertension is well accepted, and so is the link b/n HT and arterial diseases of all kinds, not just the clogging type. As such, it's an indirect but significant relationship.