Emergency Help Devices - EPIRB/PLB, Sat Phone, SPOT, etc [sp

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Fri 12 Nov, 2010 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

hmmm...spot went thru the Overland Track, its not so easy to draw many conclusions. In tracking mode the signal times seem quite random. I'm not so sure this indicates difficulty picking up a signal in the area or just the position of the beacon at the time (pack sitting against a tree etc.) The unit seems to have sent signals at regular intervals then other times one per hour or so. Where it has sent a signal was at times pretty impressive (D'Alton Falls area etc) then other times less so. As far as being useful to show the movements of the group it is acceptable though i think we need to look more at what to expect. It also threw the odd signal clear of the track, not sure if this reflects the (in)accuracy of google maps?
Also need to send it to other areas, a lot more data...

(Short of testing against a GPS and sat. phone, any testing could need to be a bigger task than anticipated)

Next, and perhaps more useful will be to test the OK signal function from a number of set locations and see if and how quickly the test is noted. I'm not so sure that the data given for tracking (eg from the Cannibal run) says much about the emergency beacon function at all...

as i said, no conclusions though....

(the tracking function is interesting... )

[photohiker]

Nuts,

Is this the original version or the new version?

It seems to me that the new version has a number of feature improvements that would make it preferable.

[Nuts]

No, just the original. i believe they say SPOT 2 has faster SAT acquisition, though I dont know whether this would effect the results? I may give a newer model a try at some stage. They are 30% lighter 30% smaller but %400 dearer to buy...

[corvus]

When you test it please let us know what you think.

[Nuts]

I'm not sure what you guys have now but i'm happy (and it would be interesting) for it to 'go for a stroll' whenever it's not being used

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Fri 12 Nov, 2010 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[geoskid]

I'm not sure what you guys have now but i'm happy (and it would be interesting) for it to 'go for a stroll' whenever it's not being used

Good idea - fast track the testing of it. You should be talking to the Spot people about sponsorship. -"Spot the Strollers"
You would'nt have to worry about anyone nicking it - they would'nt be able to use it without giving themselves up

[Nuts]

Ha Har, yer.
I imagine i'll just test the unit in the areas we need it. Be either satisfied or chuckit ; )
Getting an idea of its overall usefulness would be a good thing though..

[tasadam]

but %400 dearer to buy...

Not necessarily, see here.

My opinion is this...

Spot, sure you can change batteries with other devices so you know you have battery power. PLB, the battery lasts X number of years depending on the device specs, so more sure I will have the battery power for an emergency with a PLB.

Tracking - then you need a SPOT.

Emergency use - then a PLB would be better because of its ability to send a homing signal that can be tracked by approaching helicopter.
A Spot sends GPS coordinates so it's in your interests to get as clear a view of the sky with the Spot when using as a distress device. (Of course you want as clear a view of the sky as possible with any device).
A PLB sends an emergency signal which will be detected by satellites (406Mhx I think) to a range typically 5KM radius, and a 121.5Mhz (I think) signal can be tracked by approaching recue parties so you can be located.
A PLB with GPS is the same as the two combined - that is, sending GPS coordinates as well as homing signal, and typically costing about $100 more than the non-GPS ones.

A Spot has an annual fee of about AU $140, a PLB has none. A Spot costs about $229 plus batteries plus subscription. A PLB with GPS signal sending costs about $549 and has no ongoing costs. This means that over the life of a PLB, a PLB is less expensive than a Spot. (Disclaimer to that statement - I do not know whether or not the $140 needs to be paid if you are only going to use it as a rescue beacon)
A Spot emergency signal is sent to people in the USA monitoring that signal who will first phone your listed contact/s to check it is a real emergency, then phone the local rescue authorities (Tas police I believe).
A PLB does not have that step, the signal is sent straight to the Australian monitoring of rescue beacons.
So I would think an alert signal would be marginally quicker with a PLB than a Spot.

So, unless you want tracking and other features provided by the Spot, a dedicated PLB could be a better option. That's what I decided on and bought the GME MT410G.

Well, that's my take on it.
One last point - I do not know whether the new Spot 2 has the 121.5 homing signal transmitter built in.

[Nuts]

but %400 dearer to buy...

Not necessarily, see here.

That is the old unit, they are offering free tracking to move them on.
(I paid $60 for mine )

You make some valid points, i'll look into them...

[Nuts]

Just to note, as with the testing...
I am trying to work off practical use and scenarios rather than figures and expectations.
My main assumption with the tracking/gps system is that If The Emergency Response Is Acceptable.... then surely the tracking feature is a major bonus.
Obviously, for rescuers to know the point of your last signal must be a Major attribute for situations where you (for whatever reason) havent been able to set off the PLB...
A tracking function (in the absence of a communication facility also) must surely be the future direction for these things.

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 17 Dec, 2009 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Son of a Beach]

Obviously, for rescuers to know the point of your last signal must be a Major attribute for situations where you (for whatever reason) havent been able to set off the PLB...

This is something I hadn't considered, but now that you mention it, it really should have been obvious, and it certainly is substantial bonus for the SPOT.

(I don't have either, but will have to consider getting one or the other some time.)

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Fri 12 Nov, 2010 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[BruceL]

I came across the following link this week. Maybe it gives a clue as to the future direction SPOT and other similar devices may be heading. One of the limitations of SPOT is its limited messaging facility and I have often thought it would be great to be able to send SMS type messages from such a device.

http://www.gpsreview.net/delorme-spot-messenger/

Bruce

[Nuts]

Thanks for that, well spotted

[johnw]

I had my first chance to "road test" a PLB over the Christmas break. Well, as far as you can road test one without actually setting it off, which means doing exactly...nothing. For $20 I hired a GME Accusat MT410G Pocket Pro+ with integrated GPS from NPWS at Jindabyne NSW. I had it for a week or so but the $20 covers up to 2 weeks use. I have been thinking about buying a PLB for a while (and still am). I was doing a few solo day trips around the main range in the Snowy Mtns and planning to head off track in some areas, so thought it might be prudent to take one. Although I know the area quite well and have walked there numerous times, in the past I've had company, and the weather can sometimes play havoc (like Tassie). Anyway I guess the test was a silent success as I didn't need to use it. The NPWS officer was helpful in showing me how to activate the unit should it become necessary, and it seemed impossible to set it off accidentally. However she told me that they have had some instances of people doing just that . Moral - don't fiddle with things. It comes with a nice soft storage pouch in basic black and it didn't seem especially heavy or bulky. Probably about 2 x yellow eTrex's at a guess. I also thought $20 for 2 weeks hire was very good value (plus $100 credit card deposit, which they cancel on return of the unit intact). And my wife seemed happy that I had it.

[corvus]

I had my first chance to "road test" a PLB over the Christmas break. Well, as far as you can road test one without actually setting it off, which means doing exactly...nothing. For $20 I hired a GME Accusat MT410G Pocket Pro+ with integrated GPS from NPWS at Jindabyne NSW. I had it for a week or so but the $20 covers up to 2 weeks use. I have been thinking about buying a PLB for a while (and still am). I was doing a few solo day trips around the main range in the Snowy Mtns and planning to head off track in some areas, so thought it might be prudent to take one. Although I know the area quite well and have walked there numerous times, in the past I've had company, and the weather can sometimes play havoc (like Tassie). Anyway I guess the test was a silent success as I didn't need to use it. The NPWS officer was helpful in showing me how to activate the unit should it become necessary, and it seemed impossible to set it off accidentally. However she told me that they have had some instances of people doing just that . Moral - don't fiddle with things. It comes with a nice soft storage pouch in basic black and it didn't seem especially heavy or bulky. Probably about 2 x yellow eTrex's at a guess. I also thought $20 for 2 weeks hire was very good value (plus $100 credit card deposit, which they cancel on return of the unit intact). And my wife seemed happy that I had it.

Wow we in Tassie are being ripped off our hire cost (which I thought was OK) is $40.00 per week, hey you members from Parks Tas please ask why
corvus

[tastrax]

Maybe the hire returns from the original 243Mhz units was not enough for the replacements with the 406Mhz? Maybe the NSW government subsidised the purchases?

Still cheaper than the commercial mobs - http://www.epirbhire.com.au/#EPIRB%20and%20PLB%20hire

[johnw]

Maybe the NSW government subsidised the purchases?

This might answer that bit:
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/media/DecMedia09062601.htm
"The Police are providing an additional ten new PLBs in addition to the ten purchased by the NPWS."

[matthias]

Does anyone know any places in Hobart (except Service Tas) that hire EPIRBs? I went to Service Tas but they are booked out... didn't have any left.

[eddie the eagle]

I've had a SPOT tracker for a couple of years, and use it when I take groups into the bush.

It's still on it's original batteries (about 12 days worth of tracking data transmitted so far.) I just carry a spare set.

The transmission on the SPOT 1 unit is unreliable if it's inside the flap of your pack, in my opinion. I had about 5-6 out of 10 signals transmitted received by the GlobalStar system and recorded.

I've had an "I'm OK" message registered by the GlobalStar network and then not transmitted by mobile phone or SMS to recipients in mid 2009. I tested the unit Oct 2009. With the unit lying flat on a trampoline in my backyard on a crystal clear day, with the antenna facing skywards as recommended, the success rate was about 7 signals out of 10 received at the time (30% failure rate.) Given that it tries three times to send messages, statistically, the number that would not get through is 30% x 30% x 30% = 3% failure rate, equating to 97% success rate. THis matched the marketing claims at the time.

I believe that the satellite coverage has improved with the launch of new satellites.

If the unit's lying flat, and on top of your pack, then the strike rate for transmission success in open country was about 90 -95 percent on an overnight trip Dec 2009 (they tell me that the new Global Star network satellites are running OK) I've made up a separate pouch out of an old Dayglow Safety vest I picked up on the side of the road, and sewn it onto the top of my pack specifically for the unit, so I could get reliable coverage.

Even so, the tracking transmissions were not picked up when I walked through a coastal rainforest (nice simple one - the coast track near Otford,) but were received again when I was in the open.

In my opinion, the strength of the transmitting antennae needed improvement. I wasn't the only one with this opinion, after speaking to SPOT customer service, as they advised me that they'd put a bi-directional antenna and a stronger power source on the SPOT Version 2 unit (SPOT messenger.)

In summary, if I was to look to obtain a unit, I'd look to a SPOT Messenger unit, not a SPOT Tracker. I don't know how the battery life compares for the SPOT 2 units (Spot messengers) vs the original units (that have excellent battery life.)

Cheers,

eddie

[eddie the eagle]

Maybe the NSW government subsidised the purchases?

This might answer that bit:
"The Police are providing an additional ten new PLBs in addition to the ten purchased by the NPWS."

In Part:

"As I'm aware," the Blue Mountains Rescue Squad had to rescue a senior engineer/manager/CEO or similar of a company in about 2006 or so. I think that they found him quickly because of a PLB or an EPIRB.

Correction: http://www.benbro.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=37

His way of saying thankyou was to buy 10 out of his own pocket and donate them to Katoomba police, for loan to walkers in isolated bush to avoid future tragedy, providing that they register their trip details with the rescue services before they leave.

It's kind of taken off from there, with service clubs also donating EPIRBs.

Cheers,

eddie

Edit: Info
http://www.orange-nsw.com/hwwchatter/index.php?p=322
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/community_issues/crime_prevention/trek

[photohiker]

In my opinion, the strength of the transmitting antennae needed improvement. I wasn't the only one with this opinion, after speaking to SPOT customer service, as they advised me that they'd put a bi-directional antenna and a stronger power source on the SPOT Version 2 unit (SPOT messenger.)

In summary, if I was to look to obtain a unit, I'd look to a SPOT Messenger unit, not a SPOT Tracker. I don't know how the battery life compares for the SPOT 2 units (Spot messengers) vs the original units (that have excellent battery life.)

Hi Eddie,

That's definitely my understanding too. Apart from the problems at release with faulty units, the functionality of the Spot2 is far and above that of the original device, both from a satellite connection viewpoint and from a user interface viewpoint. The only negative is battery life due to those silly little batteries (AAA) they have chosen to use. Spot is quoting 7 days tracking in open country and 3.5 in bush on a set of batteries.

By the way, I spoke with the distributor yesterday, they are in the process of swapping out the faulty Spot2's this week, further stock of retail units will arrive in Aus next week, so should be on local retail shelves in the next couple of weeks.

Michael

[johnw]

...In Part:

"As I'm aware," the Blue Mountains Rescue Squad had to rescue a senior engineer/manager/CEO or similar of a company in about 2006 or so. I think that they found him quickly because of a PLB or an EPIRB.

Correction: http://www.benbro.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=37

His way of saying thankyou was to buy 10 out of his own pocket and donate them to Katoomba police, for loan to walkers in isolated bush to avoid future tragedy, providing that they register their trip details with the rescue services before they leave.

It's kind of taken off from there, with service clubs also donating EPIRBs.

Edit: Info
http://www.orange-nsw.com/hwwchatter/index.php?p=322
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/community_issues/crime_prevention/trek

Thanks for the clarification Eddie. I do now recall reading about the units donated by a local business owner.

[photohiker]

My Spot2 arrived today from the US.

Costs are enlightening. This thing is like a game console, the hardware is relatively cheap, but the ongoing costs mount up quickly! Service fees with basic service, tracking and GEOS member rescue benefit came to US$185.00 for a year.

Unit itself cost US$149 plus US$20 Shipping. Ebay seller with 100% rating. PM if you want a link. Post took 6 days from clicking 'Buy it Now' and paying immediately.

In my initial test which is just walking outside and pressing the OK button, it would appear that the GPS acquisition appears very fast, certainly faster on first start than any other GPS device I have ever used. Message was duly received within a couple of minutes. The unit itself, with batteries and the protective leatherette case weighs in at 137g

I'll keep it

[Lizzy]

Hey Photohiker,
Looking forward to some more reports on Spot 2. I am still interested just a bit detered by all the dramas with the recalls....
Cheers
Lizzy

[Lizzy]

OK change of plans- I bit the bullet & bought a GME 410G PLB $545 - decided that with all the Spot dramas I would stick to the dedicated PLB. Hope I never have to test it out....

[photohiker]

OK change of plans- I bit the bullet & bought a GME 410G PLB $545 - decided that with all the Spot dramas I would stick to the dedicated PLB. Hope I never have to test it out....

Good for you Lizzy. It's much better to have a device in your hand and not need it that need it and not have it

I can't report much about the Spot2, apart from the fact that it works well for tracking and I have had no issues with it on the few local jaunts I've taken it on. My yet to be proven expectation regarding the updated Spot2 is that they have done a good and proper job at correcting the errors made in the initial release, but time will tell I guess.

[optdyl]

Hi everyone,

I have scanned this topic (i.e. not a detailed look), so I may be repeating somebody else...

I use an Iridium Satellite phone with a Telstra post-paid Next G sim and carry a spare battery with me on extended walks. This will connect to the Iridium network provided the account has international roaming activated. Because of this you can chuck your regular mobile sim in the satellite phone (if you are a telstra customer) or do what I did and sign up a $0 casual data plan. This data plan doesn't have a monthly fee, so I only receive bills when I use the sat phone. The calling rates can be found here.

Hope I haven't repeated anyone else!

Happy walking