Bushwalk Australia

I have Garmin's AUS & NZ Topo lite v5 for my GPS.

Here is some Topo comparisons which I got from another site which look very close to what it's like on my GPS...





It's really good because I don't need street routing and the smaller size means that the Etrex does quicker screen refreshes and shorter search times. But it has everything else as expected of Garmin Topo



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I also have 'Contours Australia @ 5m' DVD when it was given out for free years ago. These neatly overlay the Topo map and work well in further enhancing the 3d effect when topo shading begins to fade out on maximum screen zooms.

Hey zone5 I don't quite understand the comparison here because the V5 and V4 locations don't appear to be the same place.
Are you able to show a familiar location say a map reference in Australia shown on Mapsource or Basecamp (screenshot)?
An 80 or so dollar Garmin topo product is very interesting.

Honestly the is no visible difference in detail I can see in the two except one has updated roads but no routing making it smaller and quicker to load for those who only need it for off road.

And yes $80 for the latest A&NZ topo map and searchable services is amazing!

I have a Garmin e -trex with a colour screen. A few years old now. Would it work on that? I think I have Oz toppo at the moment?

K.

Have they fixed the issue with all the points being in the wrong spot.

Half the mountains are 5km from where they are marked in the old version.

kanangra wrote:I have a Garmin e -trex with a colour screen. A few years old now. Would it work on that? I think I have Oz toppo at the moment?

If it can load an IMG file into either the MAP or GARMIN folder it should be fine. What model Etrex??? I can give you a demo file to try it out to see if it works on ur model...

icefest wrote:Have they fixed the issue with all the points being in the wrong spot. Half the mountains are 5km from where they are marked in the old version.

Which OLD version is that as I have v2, v3, v4 and Lite v5 with no issues on Nuvi and Etrex?

Zone-5 wrote:Which OLD version is that as I have v2, v3, v4 and Lite v5 with no issues on Nuvi and Etrex?

Not sure which version.

For instance, this is what it looks like on top of the Western Arthurs:

icefest wrote:For instance, this is what it looks like on top of the Western Arthurs:

Yeah I see what you mean but not sure if it's a fault. Are the co-ords out also?

I'll try and look for it in the other versions...

Zone-5 wrote: Are the co-ords out also?

I'll try and look for it in the other versions...

What do you mean?

The bottom of the yellow track is the exact summit, as measured by my GPS, which has less than 10m inaccuracy. All the peaks are off like that, and not even all in the same direction.

Then there's the issue of strange placement of range names, eg Frankland Range: http://puu.sh/csvHq/eb4a2bddba.jpg

I meant does the GPS lead you to somewhere that the GPS co-ords say the summit should be at but it isn't when you get to the spot the GPS has taken you to?

Also the 10m accuracy is a myth, try 50m and it's a radius measure so in reality it's 100m margin of error. Unless you wait the five to ten minutes to average each way-point, don't believe the accuracy hype from the manufacturers!

http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/wgarmin.htm

If you use the Garmin co-ords for the summit, then yes. I usually am not at the true summit when at the Garmin-summit.
On the other hand, OSM summits are pretty darn good. I will generally be on the true summit, or at least very close to, when I'm on the mapped summit point.
Did you see if the same error occurrs with the new map? I'll attach an averaged waypoint at the end, if that helps.

The 50-500m margin of error seems a bit large to me.
I've walked along the same track separate days and they are all roughly on top of each other.
This is from three days, five tracks, and over a week separation.

I have a variance of around 10m, which fits in with the link you sent me:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/dgps.htm
10m variation in my track would equal a margin of error of 5m, of course, it's a small sample size so the margin of error could be twice that. Even doubled, it's still an order of magnitude less than 100m.

Of course, in canyons and forests quality decreases, but clear mountain summits and ridgelines should not have that problem.
I don't think that guy included GLONASS in his calcs, which should theoretically improve accuracy even more.


I have also tried waypoint averaging. This example was for ten minutes while I had a quick lunch break.
I was in the true saddle, the lowest point between the two knolls on the ridgeline.

300m error this time.
This is the waypoint

+1 for OSM accuracy for walking.

Those Garmin topo errors are crazy!

I'll have to re-look at this. I often do the Mt Lofty Range walks in SA and the maps have been spot on. I still use a paper map and compass method combined with an Etrex 'H' that has no GLASNOS and no internal map, it's average accuracy is at 5m, it's amazing! While the Etrex 20 + WODKA is not so accurate.

I'll reinstall Basecamp and recheck my track archive for these glitches...

I use Oztopo V6.0 and when used with Garmin Basecamp points such as mountains etc are usually 150 - 300m off. I don't know if its just a problem with basecamp as on the GPS they are very close to where they should be if not spot on.

Zone-5 wrote: Also the 10m accuracy is a myth, try 50m and it's a radius measure so in reality it's 100m margin of error. Unless you wait the five to ten minutes to average each way-point, don't believe the accuracy hype from the manufacturers!

http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/wgarmin.htm

I don't know if that is exactly right, from what I have read most GPSr are a lot more accurate than 100m. I couldn't find the section in that website you shared that discussed accuracy but from what I can gather it works something like this.

"...What does it mean if the receiver states an accuracy of 4 m? This readout refers to the so-called 50 % CEP (Circular Error Probable). This means that 50 % of all measurements are within a radius of 4 m. On the other hand, 50 % of all measured positions are outside of this radius. Furthermore, 95 % of all measured positions are within a circle of twice this radius and 98.9 % of all positions are within a circle of 2.55 the radius. In the given example, nearly all positions are within circle with a radius of 10 m. The determined position is in the worst case accurate to 10 m"

If you're interested in calculating the accuracy of your own unit to both CEP (50%) and 2DRMS (95%) this is a good tutorial. My own observations on the accuracy of my GPS correlate pretty closely to the numbers in that tutorial, maybe dropping to 15m in a worst case scenario (but most of the time sitting between 3 and 10m).

Most of the modern units also get an accurate fix a lot quicker than 5-10 minutes too, even if performing a cold start. I don't know about your etrex H as it is an older model but my etrex 30 only takes a minute or maybe 3 or so minutes from a cold start.

I keep wanting to get some topos to load to my eTrex but they seem so expensive (and haven't worked out how to do the OSM thing yet).

Does this file also show tracks listed by Parks Vic etc? I'd be happy to pay $80 for that....and have no need of street or city maps

Just to clarify, is the V5 Garmin AU/NZ topo only available in this new "lite" format? I can't find any info on Garmin's site about the V5 "full" maps.

I have the older V3 maps from my Etrex 30, and bought the V4 and then upgraded my GPS to the Oregon 600.

ErichFromm wrote:I keep wanting to get some topos to load to my eTrex but they seem so expensive (and haven't worked out how to do the OSM thing yet).

Try the shonkymaps option. Yes, it is old, and no longer updated, and basic info, but you can test out some topo maps on your GPS. The other thing you can do is make some custom raster maps but you have to calibrate them yourself, and it can be time consuming.

In VIC there are good maps from the NRE has great maps http://nremap-sc.nre.vic.gov.au/MapShar ... stexplorer that you can download, but you have to calibrate them yourself. Both the eTrex 20 & 30 can do these custom maps. There are free tools out there to both calibrate the maps and break the images up in to tiles that the device can handle properly.

keithy wrote:Just to clarify, is the V5 Garmin AU/NZ topo only available in this new "lite" format? I can't find any info on Garmin's site about the V5 "full" maps.

Lite:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/maps/on ... 04827.html
Full:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/maps/to ... 83071.html

Lite has 40m contours, full has 10m contours.

Ok, now here this...

The super easiest way to do OSM is to go here:

http://www.openmapchest.org/maps/australia-new-zealand

Code: Select all

Map data © OpenStreetMap and its contributors: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
This map data is made available under the Open Database License: http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/
Any rights in individual contents of the database are licensed under the Database Contents License: http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/dbcl/1.0/

icefest wrote:

keithy wrote:Just to clarify, is the V5 Garmin AU/NZ topo only available in this new "lite" format? I can't find any info on Garmin's site about the V5 "full" maps.

Lite:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/maps/on ... 04827.html
Full:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/maps/to ... 83071.html

Lite has 40m contours, full has 10m contours.

Interesting. I'd already checked Garmin's site and came up with the same page as your link to the "full" one above. The thing is though that the "full" one has the same Garmin Part Number as my V4 topo so that's why I thought it was still only the V4 available. https://www.ja-gps.com.au/GPS-Maps/Preloaded-Cards

I'll shoot Garmin an email.

I went via the us Garmin website as the Australian catalog is easier to browse that way.

icefest wrote:Lite:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/maps/on ... 04827.html
Full:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/maps/to ... 83071.html

Lite has 40m contours, full has 10m contours.

Ok, I did a bit more research, and the current "Full" version in your link, with the code prod8307.html and the Part Number: 010-C1049-00 is still the v4 from August 2012.

Only the Lite one is the V5 released in August 2014. I assume the full V5 topo maps will come out soon.

After playing around with this I am back with the standard non Topo map and gladly gone with Australia Contours 5m as the overlay on top of the standard Sensis CN map...



...It just works!

The overly darkish background shadings of the topo just can't be seen clearly in bright sunshine.

I did a comparison with the V4 topo and the V5 lite, and for areas in VIC where I've been using it, I haven't seen much difference. Other than the contour difference, some map colour differences, and track identification differences.

Screenshot taken on a Garmin Oregon 600 at 500m level zoom at the same location. This is Lake Thompson / Mt Baw Baw area.



I'll have a play with both of them a bit more, but at this stage, if you already have the V4, I'm not sure it's a big upgrade to go for the V5 lite.

Here's another comparison -

Same 500m zoom level. Around Whites Track Alpine National Park:

Does the Topo Lite V5 work with Basecamp - that is can I see the maps on my computer? It isn't clear for me from the Garmin website. It says "The download is installed directly to a device or microSD/SD card and is not accessible on the computer."

Watertank wrote:Does the Topo Lite V5 work with Basecamp - that is can I see the maps on my computer? It isn't clear for me from the Garmin website. It says "The download is installed directly to a device or microSD/SD card and is not accessible on the computer."

It is a bit unclear, but you can view it using basecamp, if your device/microSD card is connected by USB and recognised by the PC. What they mean is that it cannot be installed directly to basecamp like the DVD version.

Once you have it downloaded and installed on the device/microSD if you have problems, try using JaVaWa Device Manager http://www.javawa.nl/jdm_en.html to see what is going on.

Remember to close down JaVaWa before trying to open the map in Basecamp.

I use the freeware 'Contours Australia @ 5m' to overcome the courser contours in the Lite version.