Bushwalk Australia

Currently this is a hypothetical situation, as mobile phones are currently not an ideal emergency device (due to both battery life, and network coverage). But there is likely to be a time in the (perhaps not too distant) future when mobile phones have batteries that will reliably last for a few weeks (or with spare battery packs, or solar chargers) and when the network is reliable everywhere (eg, by satellite phone network) at an affordable price.

Assuming this does happen one day soon, then the mobile phone could replace the SPOT and the PLB/EPIRB (in theory, at least). So my question is this...

If the mobile phone did everything it currently does, PLUS everything the current SPOT and PLB/EPIRB does, and if the mobile phone did it all just as well as the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB in every way, AND if the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB were phased out entirely, then...

• would you carry a mobile phone as an emergency notification device while bushwalking?
• would you use it to phone home while bushwalking?
• would you leave it in a state where it can receive phone calls while bushwalking?

Currently, I carry a mobile phone with me when walking not because I want to phone home, but because it is good for telling the time, it includes a GPS, and all my maps, etc, etc. I most definitely do not want people to be able to phone me when I'm bushwalking, and always disable the cell network on the phone while I'm walking (which also saves a LOT of battery drain).

However, I have found myself on one occasion just past Frenchmans Cap where I found there was excellent network coverage (even without 3g) and I phoned my wife and had a good chat (I was 4 days into a 6 day walk).

Personally, I find that being uncontactable is one of the best things about bushwalking. There's no way I'd leave the cell network function on all the time while bushwalking. I don't know if I'd be likely to phone home regularly or not. I certainly would NOT do it daily, but I do it occasionally on a very long walk - maybe every 4 or 5 days. But even then it would detract from the remoteness of the walking, and therefore somewhat diminish the experience, I think.

I guess another question that's related would be...

If you currently do NOT carry a SPOT, PLB/EPIRB now, would you carry a mobile phone if it was an ideal emergency notification device in the future?

I currently do NOT carry a SPOT or PLB/EPIRB (yes, I should, but I don't). But I would certainly carry a mobile phone in the future if it was the ideal emergency device, as a smartphone is already a much more useful device for so many different reasons - it is more of a handheld computer that happens to include a phone application than a phone that does lots of other things.

I would certainly carry my phone under the circumstances you describe, Nick. I carry it most of the time even under current conditions. I also carry a PLB with me and would continue to do so even if mobile coverage isn't an issue (until they make waterproof phones as I have drowned at least two, possibly three so far - can't remember exactly).

Yes, I should have added in my initial hypothetical scenario, that the future mobile phone would be as rugged and waterproof as current SPOT, PLB/EPIRB devices. Most current mobiles (especially the so-called smart-phones) are far from rugged and durable in rough handling or wet conditions. Good point.

I've re-worded the question in the original post to make it a bit clearer such that the hypothetical mobile phone of the future does everything the current SPOT/PLB/EPIRBs do, and do it just as well as those other devices do.

Son of a Beach wrote:[*]would you carry a mobile phone as an emergency notification device while bushwalking?.

Yes.

Son of a Beach wrote:[*]would you use it to phone home while bushwalking?

No

Son of a Beach wrote:[*]would you leave it in a state where it can receive phone calls while bushwalking?[/list][/b][/size]

No.


I carry a mobile as a tool for necessary communication only, not to have casual conversation, so, short of a real emergency, I would switch it on only to confirm a pickup time or notify a change of plans. In that situation it could save an embarrassing and unnecessary emergency services call out if things have gone slightly awry, but not enough to warrant outside assistance. Whenever I walk I leave a plan with my wife with a time to contact someone if she has not heard from me, but I value my solitude in the bush too much to ever be in constant contact with the outside world. I have never used a PLB or such device and I would not rely on a mobile as my primary means of emergency notification.* As most of my walking is on track I don't see the necessity if I have left a detailed plan at home.

* Even if the mobile of the future has 100% coverage I would no doubt be the one who dropped and broke it just as the crisis was unfolding .

Son of a Beach wrote:...AND if the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB were phased out entirely, then...
would you carry a mobile phone as an emergency notification device while bushwalking?
would you use it to phone home while bushwalking?
would you leave it in a state where it can receive phone calls while bushwalking?

1. Yes. I think that would be the ultimate device.
2. Only for essential/important reasons, similar to Lindsay.
3. No. On a recent solo walk I sat down for lunch at a fairly remote clifftop. I decided to turn on the phone in just case there were any messages (although I didn't really expect to get any reception). I almost dropped the thing when it started to ring about 20 seconds later. It was my son, who I was due to meet with later that day. The call wasn't entirely unexpected in that regard, but I kind of resented the intrusion on my usual peace and quiet .

I've worked in IT for a long time but some may think me a Luddite; I actually hate mobile phones, useful though they are. I rarely turn mine on and see it primarily as a tool for essential communication. I rarely leave it on at work or at home; I have a desk phone and people can ring me on that and I've got a land line at home. How contactable do we really need to be? In the bush I'd rather not be disturbed at all. I remember when summiting Mt Ossa someone, phone in hand, loudly asked if anyone wanted to know the news of the day. Kind of took something away from the moment .

1. Yes
2. Maybe.
3. Probably not.

I carry a phone with me anyway, but unless I need to use it for whatever reason it is switched off and in a waterproof pouch.

johnw wrote:I've worked in IT for a long time but some may think me a Luddite; I actually hate mobile phones, useful though they are.

I'm partially with you there. I only got my own first mobile phone last year. Before that, work insisted that I had to have a work mobile phone, and made me carry the work phone around during work hours (but they never got it's phone number, so I still don't know what the point of it was - doh!). I would rarely carry it around outside of work hours. I hated the idea of having to carry around anything with me all the time. Keys and wallet was bad enough.

Last year when I got my own first mobile phone (without a SIM card, and stuck the work SIM card in it), it was only because it was purchased as a handheld computer, which could also be used as a phone. Not because it was a phone - I don't need a phone that much.

However, I have found that due to all the other things it can do, I now do carry it around a lot more often than I used to, as it is such a useful tool for so many different things. I think I'm being assimilated.

Topic moved to Techno-Babble forum, as it is becoming more about the devices than the behaviour.

Lindsay wrote:

Son of a Beach wrote:[*]would you carry a mobile phone as an emergency notification device while bushwalking?.

Yes.

Son of a Beach wrote:[*]would you use it to phone home while bushwalking?

No

Son of a Beach wrote:[*]would you leave it in a state where it can receive phone calls while bushwalking?[/list][/b][/size]

No.


I carry a mobile as a tool for necessary communication only, not to have casual conversation, so, short of a real emergency, I would switch it on only to confirm a pickup time or notify a change of plans. In that situation it could save an embarrassing and unnecessary emergency services call out if things have gone slightly awry, but not enough to warrant outside assistance. Whenever I walk I leave a plan with my wife with a time to contact someone if she has not heard from me, but I value my solitude in the bush too much to ever be in constant contact with the outside world. I have never used a PLB or such device and I would not rely on a mobile as my primary means of emergency notification.* As most of my walking is on track I don't see the necessity if I have left a detailed plan at home.

* Even if the mobile of the future has 100% coverage I would no doubt be the one who dropped and broke it just as the crisis was unfolding .

Ditto, for all the above.

Yes I would probably buy such a device but having said that I would be interested to know for future ref, what the current mobile reception is like in and around The Walls, lakes Meston, Adelaide and Ragoona area?
Phil

I carry it for emergency use, not knowing whether I would be able to get network or not. Would be ideal if all functions could be combined. I wouldn't, however, like to fall into making calls while out in the bush. Spoils the idea of being remote and self reliant.
Can anyone confirm whether dialling 112 works as an emergency number? I believe it is the european equivalent to our '000' but can be picked up by satellites ( I am hoping that this isn't covered in another thread somewhere - please direct me if it has).
Nik, i hadn't realised that you could disable the cell network and that this saves battery power. Any tips on how I can do this on my mobile (Nokia).
Cheers
Andrew

abowen wrote:Nik, i hadn't realised that you could disable the cell network and that this saves battery power. Any tips on how I can do this on my mobile (Nokia).

Well, it varies from device to device, I guess, and to be honest, my own phone doesn't provide any easy way to do this, and many others probably don't either. It's easy to turn off the WiFi networking (with a switch in the settings view), and easy to turn of Data over the Cell Phone network (another switch in settings). However, on my phone, turning off the cell networking altogether (including receiving voice calls, SMS, etc) requires a VERY CLUNKY method:

1. Set a lock code on the SIM card (only needs to be done once).
2. Restart the phone.
3. Don't unlock the SIM card.



You need to be careful with this, because if you stuff up the locking of the SIM card, you may need to send it back to the telco to get it sorted out.

Alternatively, you could just remove the SIM card altogether, but they're too small and easy to lose, I reckon.

PS. When you leave the cell network enabled when there's no network available, it drains the battery somewhat quicker. If you're in the car, and your phone is near the radio and the radio is on, you can hear the interference from the phone almost continuously as it attempts to advertise itself to whatever network might be available. I can only guess that it will keep doing this until it finds one, and this involves transmission, which uses battery power. When actually connected to a network, it only transmits periodically, presumably to check that the network is still there, or if there's another stronger cell to switch to (with the intermittent radio interference that we're all familiar with).

abowen wrote:...Can anyone confirm whether dialling 112 works as an emergency number? I believe it is the european equivalent to our '000' but can be picked up by satellites ( I am hoping that this isn't covered in another thread somewhere - please direct me if it has).

Here are some details on the 112 number - no word about satellites though

http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_100575

tastrax wrote:

abowen wrote:...Can anyone confirm whether dialling 112 works as an emergency number? I believe it is the european equivalent to our '000' but can be picked up by satellites ( I am hoping that this isn't covered in another thread somewhere - please direct me if it has).

Here are some details on the 112 number - no word about satellites though

http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_100575

Seeing as use of 112 is restricted to the GSM network (according to the above link), I suspect it would only have very limited usage these days (in comparison to the NextG network anyway).

geez Nik, that is a clunky way about it. My phone you just press one button and then select 'aeroplane mode' from the list, and all radios on the device a turned off (wifi, data, cell, bluetooth)

Son of a Beach wrote:If the mobile phone did everything it currently does, PLUS everything the current SPOT and PLB/EPIRB does, and if the mobile phone did it all just as well as the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB in every way, AND if the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB were phased out entirely, then...
[*]would you carry a mobile phone as an emergency notification device while bushwalking?

Probably.

[*]would you use it to phone home while bushwalking?

I don't make phone calls. I'm deaf.

[*]would you leave it in a state where it can receive phone calls while bushwalking?

No *&%$#! way.
If you've never been to Kosciuszko's summit, there's one thing you need to know - there is always some plonker up there making a "you'll never guess where I'm calling from" call. And they think they're so effing clever . . .

Macca81 wrote:geez Nik, that is a clunky way about it. My phone you just press one button and then select 'aeroplane mode' from the list, and all radios on the device a turned off (wifi, data, cell, bluetooth)

Yes, that's the way it should be, but on my phone, Aeroplane Mode also turns off the GPS. It makes no sense to me as the GPS doesn't transmit anything, but it's something to do with USA flight regulations, apparently.

I want to turn off the Cell Network, and the WiFi Network and the Bluetooth, but to leave the GPS on. On my clunky phone, this is the only way I've found to do it.

Son of a Beach wrote:

Macca81 wrote:geez Nik, that is a clunky way about it. My phone you just press one button and then select 'aeroplane mode' from the list, and all radios on the device a turned off (wifi, data, cell, bluetooth)

Yes, that's the way it should be, but on my phone, Aeroplane Mode also turns off the GPS. It makes no sense to me as the GPS doesn't transmit anything, but it's something to do with USA flight regulations, apparently.

I want to turn off the Cell Network, and the WiFi Network and the Bluetooth, but to leave the GPS on. On my clunky phone, this is the only way I've found to do it.

you clunky phone is an iPhone right? there must be an app for accessing the settings to turn things off? the HTC has an app called 'quick settings' (and many simmiler) that gives the option to turn on or off almost everything on the phone...

Macca81 wrote:

Son of a Beach wrote:

Macca81 wrote:geez Nik, that is a clunky way about it. My phone you just press one button and then select 'aeroplane mode' from the list, and all radios on the device a turned off (wifi, data, cell, bluetooth)

Yes, that's the way it should be, but on my phone, Aeroplane Mode also turns off the GPS. It makes no sense to me as the GPS doesn't transmit anything, but it's something to do with USA flight regulations, apparently.

I want to turn off the Cell Network, and the WiFi Network and the Bluetooth, but to leave the GPS on. On my clunky phone, this is the only way I've found to do it.

you clunky phone is an iPhone right? there must be an app for accessing the settings to turn things off? the HTC has an app called 'quick settings' (and many simmiler) that gives the option to turn on or off almost everything on the phone...

I'm sure that's possible for jailbroken phones, but I've not yet found a need to jailbreak my phone (in this case, locking the SIM card is a fairly simple solution). But we've digressed from the topic somewhat.

I never can understand why we have to carry a phone that has a GPS, and PLB that has a GPS and a navigational GPS because the others won't transform into GDA etc. Perhaps you even carry a traffic GPS because you don't want to leave it in the car. OK, I understand the need to preserve the PLB battery for emergencies but why the heck can't we interface these devices and say, power the PLB GPS externally and use it's position for a GPSless nav device or plug a nav GPS or phone GPS into a GPSless PLB. Perhaps in the case of the phone, Use the PLB for 2 way emergency communication to perhaps to actually treat a critically injures patient (under trained instruction) who will otherwise not make it.

Seems to me integrating or modularizing devices would make all this a lot more affordable and useful.

Regards,
Ken

My iPhone works fine as a GPS and I carry a folding solar charger for it. I only reference the GPS/maps relative to the wider area in view, not actually when walking.

I am puzzled why so many people have overlapping/duplicated technology: iPhone with GPS, a GPS, a watch with GPS... Why? Technophiles???

Biggles wrote:My iPhone works fine as a GPS and I carry a folding solar charger for it. I only reference the GPS/maps relative to the wider area in view, not actually when walking.

I am puzzled why so many people have overlapping/duplicated technology: iPhone with GPS, a GPS, a watch with GPS... Why? Technophiles???

I can't talk for anyone else, but for me its all about safety and redundancy. Sure, I could rely on my iPhone and all its apps, but one drop or soaking and its potentially out of the picture. Dedicated GPS's are far more resilient than an iPhone, and even the worst GPS battery life is a long time better than the iPhone, and they almost always have replaceable batteries which makes multiday trips possible even in bad weather or deep forest. Even with 2 devices, I will still have a compass and paper maps to fall back on.

I don't have a GPS watch though, so perhaps I am not a technophile...

Biggles wrote:My iPhone works fine as a GPS and I carry a folding solar charger for it. I only reference the GPS/maps relative to the wider area in view, not actually when walking.

I am puzzled why so many people have overlapping/duplicated technology: iPhone with GPS, a GPS, a watch with GPS... Why? Technophiles???

Well, I don't carry much techno stuff (prefer empirical methods) so don't know much about their capabilities. I do sometimes carry my traffic GPS because I won't leave it in the car but sometimes I store points I want to check out. It isn't very good for this sort of thing, doesn't tell me distances or bearings and only gives position in WGS84 lat long. So not practical to locate position on a paper topo map in the field. IMO, for a GPS to be useful, it must at least do bearing and distance to way points/ destination and transform coordinates into common map systems. If it can't do the transformation on the fly, it's useless as a nav system because it can't confirm other techniques. Many devices incorporate a GPS but fail to transform so are in the useless bucket. if I was going to go techno, I would want 1 waterproof device that could at least do the above, at least have a chance at connecting to the mobile net and definitely be capable of getting an emergency signal to satellite on reserve power if no mobile service is available. I believe that 112 will use any available mobile service regardless of subscription or credit. A sat service subscription should not be necessary to handle an emergency call via satellite. All this should be available with an ordinary mobile subscription for a sat capable phone. This would be a great advantage over PLBs in that you know for sure help is on the way and it might become possible to communicate about patients condition and treatment if things are dire.

It's just combining existing technology into 1 device so lighter, cheaper and more useful.


Regards,
Ken

Son of a Beach wrote:So my question is this...

If the mobile phone did everything it currently does, PLUS everything the current SPOT and PLB/EPIRB does, and if the mobile phone did it all just as well as the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB in every way, AND if the SPOT and PLB/EPIRB were phased out entirely, then...

• would you carry a mobile phone as an emergency notification device while bushwalking?
• would you use it to phone home while bushwalking?
• would you leave it in a state where it can receive phone calls while bushwalking?

.

I sometimes carry a phone, but poor network coverage makes it mostly useless. I would like the freedom to be able to change my plans mid walk and be able to notify others that I had done so. I agree part of the appeal to going bush is that no one can reach you - so no to question 3. I think that it would be important that any device with a PLB capability have a separate battery that is only used when the PLB is activated - so you don't end up in an emergency with a flat battery.

I like the look of the new Delorme PN-60W which combines GPS and Spot-like functions.