Tas Photos in Aus competition & Photo Competition Ideas

[Son of a Beach]

The competition rules merely state that "Basic photo manipulation is allowed including: Panorama stitching, levels, curves, HDR". This is not terribly specific, but then, it's not really enforceable, either.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Are the photos put in the competition "straight off the camera", maybe with some cropping, or is the colour, contrast etc improved by the photographer before entering? If that is the case, it would make it hard for anyone who hasn't got the time or the knowledge to fix up their photos to produce something as good as those with the time and/or knowledge.

As good as it is I dont think this months winner was "straight off the camera".........

[eggs]

The Australia competition photo was essentially straight out of the camera. Just had to resize it for the competition size rules.

[Taurë-rana]

The competition rules merely state that "Basic photo manipulation is allowed including: Panorama stitching, levels, curves, HDR". This is not terribly specific, but then, it's not really enforceable, either.

It had occurred to me that it would be a bit hard to police. I
It would be interesting to know what has been done to the photos before entry - this month's winner being a classic case.

[jcr_au]

FWIW, whilst I've only been on the forum a few months, I've made it my own policy to not read the comments until voting is closed, but that's just me.

As far as the Australia comp goes I have to admit I hadn't read the rules sufficiently well to realise the Shaky state is included (those cheeky kiwi's insist on calling the Mainland the Western Island, so when they do I reply with the shaky state comment - so far I've only got a grin as reply) - perhaps the comp should be called Australasia?

Now in terms of Tasmanian dominance, welllllll, there's an awful lot of pretty scenery up here remember, and the competition is about the photographic merit, not the highest peak

In terms of numbers from up north, just remember the quote from the only decent Kevin Costner film ever made "build it and they will come" - you've built it and they will definitely come

john r

[walkinTas]

I think that the status quo is very good. If one is lucky enough to be able to submit two entries because they live outside Australia ... that is even better.

...PS, I'm from the ACT ... I'm not from the "Rest of Australia". Good Heavens, having the Capital Territory being lumped with the rest!!!

Unbelievable! So Australia is outside the ACT, and Tasmania is outside of Australia. Geography has changed a lot since I went to school.

I can't see why Australians shouldn't visit Tasmania ...

Yeah, we are a tolerant lot here in Tassie. We even let "Australians" in.

But I do agree with you Warren, the status quo is good. The Tassie comp isn't for Tasmanians, its for photos taken in Tasmania. If changes are made Nik, I hope you strive to keep it simple and keep it friendly.

[tasadam]

Yes, agree not much wrong with the status quo. Maybe a small change is needed, like because I won November, someone can pay my bills so I can go on a walk in December and take a photo - I had nothing to enter

Re the 1st 2nd 3rd idea, I think that has merit because it's pretty hard to pick just one...
Can't see how the software would allow it tho, as Nik said. Unless you run 3 identical polls, and it clearly says in text in big bold letters you are voting for FIRST PLACE or 2nd or whatever.
But then software would be needed to do the tallying which would be a bit hard to do automatically. So that creates more admin work, and so I think it will stay as is with just the one vote for now.

Another thought on 3 votes for 1st 2nd 3rd, if voting 1st gives the image 3 points, voting 2nd gives the image 2 points, and voting 3rd gives the image 1 point, with the highest point total being the winning entry (and the most 1st place votes gets it in the case of a tie), what happens if one image gets everyones 2nd place vote, yet people were voting for a few different images in 1st place? You could conceivably have an image win without getting a single 1st place vote. Should that be right?
Maybe I think too much. Gotta get another coffee.

Re the "no editing", I must say I am also curious as to how the photo that won TAS in December looked straight out of the camera. Please understand, not sour grapes - I didn't even enter, and heck I've won 5 in 2009, more than happy here. But I am curious - seen plenty of photos to be able to recognize that there has been some tweaking done. Sure it's all in the rules and allowed, just that I am curious. I've seen plenty of photos on Redbubble that have had similar effects, but you never get to see how the image looked to start with. Maybe the "straight out of the camera" idea could be considered? That way, it is indeed a "photography" competition and not a computer editing comp. A few entries I put in last year were straight out of the camera, and I know at least one I can think of that won (Currawong with Cradle in background). But then, these days some cameras allow editing through the menus in the camera. So it gets back to whether it is too hard to "police" for want of a better word.

Well this topic is to discuss the ideas for photo comp's so let's hear them - any more ideas?

[Robbo]

You could conceivably have an image win without getting a single 1st place vote. Should that be right?

Preferential voting is a fact of life in Australian politics and seems to work in that context. The Australian constitution fathers considered this the fairest method of determining the winner - but then there is compulsory voting as well...

Keeping it simple is likely the best method for this kind of thing.

A few entries I put in last year were straight out of the camera,

Camera makers tweak the images through the software they have built into them - sort of like how different slide film would give different effects (Kodachrome most natural 'feel', Extachrome a bluish/cool 'feel', Agfa warm 'feel', and so forth). Unless images were all taken RAW - and most compacts don't allow this do they?

Anyway, just some thoughts

TR

[iandsmith]

Mmm, some interesting stuff there.
Firstly, on the "hackers" subject. We all started out as that and, though you may be frustrated, I agree with the others - if the bar isn't raised, you won't aim for it. I learnt from looking at other pics and like to think that I may have gleaned a thing or two from viewing others.
As for the comps, I've voiced my total frustration that I have so many shots I would love to try in a comp but, sadly, unless they're taken that particular month, you can't enter. Imagine my frustration when I got some wonderful shots while walking in Italy but have no chance to enter them here because of the limitations. Perhaps, to make life even more annoyingly busy for the organisers, we could have an "other places" annual comp. Then we might see some magical South American, European stuff etc. from members.
Cheers all

[Son of a Beach]

Perhaps, to make life even more annoyingly busy for the organisers, we could have an "other places" annual comp. Then we might see some magical South American, European stuff etc. from members.

I really like this idea, but I don't think we'd get enough entries for now. Perhaps in another couple of years, this could be a goer.

[Ent]

Like the idea of Tassie, Australia and rest of the world competitions. For better and worst the site is, or was, Tassie focused and I do like seeing on my wall shots of places that I can get to rather than dreamy places (Everest, etc). When the Australia section gets swamped with entries then that is the time to consider splitting out states. As for posting Tassie photographs in the Australia section well but that is the individuals for you and policing it say for a macro shot is near impossible. I suppose some people must win. If you think your months worth of photos are special then post on a thread for the world to see, is winning more important?

As for the current month only rule I love that idea as the calendar at the end reflects the bush during all months. The single photo rule is good else the "judges" could easily be swamped, and besides it is meant to be the best photograph so submit your best. Sure in some months there are many great photographs while in other months the competition is a bit thin. Does this not suggest "honesty" that not much walking is done in that month. Also provide an incentive for us to get out more?

For photo manipulation this just way too hard to police and besides if you do not like the effect vote for a style that better suits you. Yes I would feel duped if a wonderful shot of a Devil with a butterfly landing on its nose in an idealistic setting is a fudged composition of many shots so like the idea that the shot should be a single imagine but this relies on the honesty of the submitting person. As for fairness well, that is unachievable, as some members carry ten of thousands of dollars of equipment in while many others use compact cameras so on shear image quality the better equipped person should have a better chance of winning. So what, it is their passion and good on them. Bit like complaining that someone was up before dawn setting up and this is not fair as you only shot quickly while on a walk. The best rules are minimal rules.

Would like to see once the competition finished the brand and model of camera along with any notes on processing. This might be achieved by a comment box when submitting the photograph. Give an ability to learn a bit.

As for lobbying, well I consciously ignore any comments made about a photograph by voting first then trundle through the text. Sure a "win at all cost" person could have thirty avatars and win every time. Great, just means people will vote at the end of the year but not buying the calendar.

The resulting calendar should reflect the time of year and a variety of views. As mentioned in another thread on "Honesty of Photography" there appears to be a certain style of photograph that appeals to most people and as much I rally against this at the end of the day as long as the voting is not rigged then so be it.

The only real change I would like to see is a better way to know when voting starts. I tend to need to be hit on the nose and woken up about deadlines so maybe an ability to received automated PMs (if requested) or a new post that a competition is opening for submissions or voting

Cheers Brett

[Son of a Beach]

The only real change I would like to see is a better way to know when voting starts. I tend to need to be hit on the nose and woken up about deadlines so maybe an ability to received automated PMs (if requested) or a new post that a competition is opening for submissions or voting

Yes, I agree this would be good, and I've mulled over some ideas.

For now, people who are interested in the competitions should subscribe to the forum. This way they'll be automatically notified of new topics (usually the posting of a poll in that forum).

I may eventually investigate the possibility of having a notification on the index page along with the winning photos' thumbnails. I'm not sure if people really notice items there, but it may be worth a shot.

[eggs]

I think Nik's suggestion that Tas entries in the Aus competition should be the odd entry to make up numbers matches the original intention.
To this end - perhaps we need some form of counter that tells us how many entries there are?
I also added a Tas photo in an early post to make up numbers when I had been all month in Tas at the time - but it was quite different in area to my Tas competition entry.
If this spirit were followed, it would be a shame if they did not acrue votes simply because they were from Tas - but I must admit that my eye was more on the non-Tas entries this month.

I may have to revise my thinking given the healthy number of photos in this month - and some are clearly entered from the same trips that entries in the Tas section came from.
Given that noone knows the number of entries going in the Australia section, I cannot fault this happening, but I am a bit bemused not so much with the entries as with voter intentions.

As mentioned, in Jan I was only walking in Tas - so I put up 1 entry in each competition from different walks.
It was no surprise that the Tas photo in the Aus section did not get many votes.
( I deliberately avoided my own as I realised it was a filler in case the entries were low in count - it would probably have done better if I had swapped it around into the Tas competition)

But it looks quite possible with all the Tas entries this month, that the small band of voters might be happy not to consider giving weight to those photos from the rest of Australia??

[Steve]

In the comp rules it says "The primary subject of the photo should be in Tasmania" (Australia and New Zealand in the Aus comp respectively). It does not say anywhere that the subject need be bushwalking related, then again this is a bushwalking oriented site so it makes sense that it should.

So my question is, must the subject be bushwalking related or can anyone submit anything they like? I have no plans to submit anything unbushwalking related but was just curious as currently, as per the rules, there's no reason I can't enter a photo of my toaster next month and who knows it might make the cover of next years calendar.

[eggs]

I guess it is not always easy to do a bushwalk every month just to get a suitable photo.
I know that some of my entries in the Aus competition have been minimal sort of walks [ie short "tourist" tracks] - but they have always been in the "wild". And I do regular walks in the hills for fitness with a camera in tow.

But I think you are right that it is actually a wide scope. One of the earliest winning entry appears to have been from a beach in the suburbs of Hobart, and various manmade items and structures have been part of some winning entries as well.
So I look forward to how interesting you can make your toaster look.
But do remember - as I am sort of alluding to in my previous post - the people voting are the key determinants to the result.
[so far with 6 out of 10 photos in the Aus competition being from Tasmania, the votes for Tasmanian photos totals 17 versus 6 for those from "rest of Aus"]
I suspect that even a well composed toaster may not be of much appeal to folk who come here dreaming about wilderness walking.

[Steve]

I suspect that even a well composed toaster may not be of much appeal to folk who come here dreaming about wilderness walking.

LoL. Too true.

[Son of a Beach]

It's a good point, Steve. I thought that this was actually in the rules, but now I can't see it there. It may have been accidentally dropped from the rules when the automated system was set up, including the (semi-)automatic rules generation.

Eggs is spot on with his assessment of the situation though. In some minor cases, photos may not be deleted or disqualified from the competition even if they do break the rules, and it is up to the voters to decide if they think the photo is OK or not.

However, in this case, the rule really should be there, and I'll add it back in now. OK, 'tis done... "The subject of the photos must be bushwalking related."

Of course out of fairness, I'll have to ignore the new/replaced rule for the current month's entries, so you're still welcome to submit your toaster this month!

[tasadam]

It's a good point, Steve. I thought that this was actually in the rules

So did I, I know it used to say something very close to -
The primary subject of the photo should be in Tasmania and the subject of the photos should be bushwalking related.

[eggs]

So its the last day for March Australia competition.

We have 6 Tas photos with 24 votes and 4 Aus photos with 9 votes.
Is this a watershed moment - or the start of the Tas #2 competition?
Or do we need to get more of the 1716 members voting?

[Son of a Beach]

Although the the March 2010 competition is dominated by Tasmanian photos (both in terms of entries and in terms of votes), it's not yet a problem in the grand scheme of things. Ie, there has never been a Tasmanian photo that has won the Australian competition before. This looks like being a first.

If it ever does come to look like a Tas #2 competition (ie, with Tasmanian photos winning the votes more often than what seems reasonable), then steps will be taken to limit Tasmanian entries in the Australian competition. The first step would probably be something along the lines of not permitting any one person to enter both competitions in the same month. Failing that, we could ban people who reside in Tasmania from entering the Australian competition at all. But I think that would be a terribly draconian approach.

[tasadam]

I still think Tas for Tas and Australia / NZ for "Rest of Aus / NZ".
That format also leaves scope for splitting other states into their own comp if we regularly receive large amounts of entries for any particular state.

But as it stands at the moment, if there aren't enough entries for "rest of", perhaps we need to encourage our mainland walkers to post more photos.
Just because we live here in Tassie doesn't mean we aren't interested in seeing what the rest of the country and NZ has to offer.

In line with Nik's post above, perhaps only one photo from any state for each member, that way a member with a Tas photo and a mainland photo can enter both, but not two Tasmanian photos.

[stepbystep]

Perhaps just one comp - Australia for all comers?

[tasadam]

Perhaps just one comp - Australia for all comers?

A nice idea, but we give the mainland a natural disadvantage with the beauty of this place.

[stepbystep]

Perhaps just one comp - Australia for all comers?

A nice idea, but we give the mainland a natural disadvantage with the beauty of this place.

Some form of multiple entry system would be a good idea however comps are structured - In April I have been so many places including today the variety of images make a single choice really difficult.

[eggs]

Technically - Aus should have photos as good as Tas.
From my point of view though - I rarely get out for the bigger more glamorous walks and when I do I seem to drift to Tas anyway.
One solution is to get more Aus walkers contributing.

I actually had a choice of 2 very different locations for March, but that is rare, and it easy to think as the voting pattern emerges that the second location would have fared better. But that's life and there is only 1 competition available for the Aus photos..
I suspect that a lot of Tas contributors are probably in the same boat of the occasional walk [unlike ILUVSWTAS ], and they may well like the chance of posting twice from the one trip. Harsh as it might seem - I do think a restriction on this would be reasonable.
As I have already noted - I don't really have a problem with Tas photos being contributed, but I would expect that the voting would reflect that Tas photos are a form of fill-in in case the Aus photos are light on.

If the voting base is so small and very Tas orientated, then maybe you would have to limit photos to Aus only - otherwise it will become a second Tas competition and the danger with that is that the Aus contributors may not bother entering. But I was expecting voting to reflect the general theme of the second competition being focussed on the rest of Aust.

Tasadam - I think the key advantage of Tas is not just the beauty, but the fact that it is so compact and accessible - even if you think the West Coast is a long way away. [My planning for the next big Aus walk has to factor in an 8 hour drive just to get there.]
And this accessibility is combined with the key interest group on the site being Tas based.
I also note what SoB said - that so far no Aus competition has been won by a Tas photo. I am sure I would not be troubled if a really good Tas photo won the Aus competition - but my concern just now is the way a lot of Tas photos are ahead of any of the Aus photos - that's why it looks like a watershed event.
But perhaps it is a one-of aberration - and we need to give it a few more months yet to see.

[Taurë-rana]

I don't think there's a problem if more votes go to the Tasmanian photos, I don't think it's a bias towards Tassie, just that more people liked those shots this month. I realise this is easy to say, with mine doing well, but it's what I think. I've got some stunning (old) photos from the mainland that I think people would enjoy, and maybe they would do OK but it would depend on the competition.
I definitely don't think we should just have an Australia comp and no Tas comp as this is primarily a Tassie bushwalking site.
Being a person who finds it hard to make up my mind, I liked having two places to enter photos, and chose a less typically Tasmanian one for the Australian comp but maybe we should have "Tasmania" and "Everywhere else" bar Tas. Or maybe you could allow Tasmanian insects, fungi, leaf/rock etc patterns in the Australian one if needed for numbers.

I think you either need to allow Tassie photos in the Aus comp and accept the voting as it goes, or not allow them at all. Perhaps you should put it to the vote.

[johnw]

Firstly congratulations Taurë-rana (on both wins) with excellent shots . Where was Clear Reflections taken, specifically?

I'd like to suggest a standard way of identification, particularly for the AUS/NZ comp. I struggled with trying to guess where a couple of photos were from this month. For me the locality is a key piece of information. I think it would be a good idea to standardise descriptions by prefixing each entry with state/location and then provide further description as desired by the entrant. For example:

SA - Flinders Ranges. Wilpena Pound on a nice day.
TAS - Tarn Shelf, Mt Field NP. Fagus at its best.
You get the idea. Just my 2 cents.

Technically - Aus should have photos as good as Tas.
...I seem to drift to Tas anyway. One solution is to get more Aus walkers contributing.

I agree. It's a pity that more people are not entering with photos from outside Tasmania. Nothing wrong with having Tassie photos in it. These entries are of a very high standard and have been particularly appreciated where a lack of entries would force a rollover. But there looks to be a risk at present that things could devolve into two Tasmanian comps. As already said let's see if it's a one-off event this month. I've been fortunate on occasions to have photos to enter for both the Tassie and other comps but these are exceptions as most of my photo opportunties are on the mainland.

So how do we get more mainland and NZ people to enter and vote? Although the site remains largely Tas-centric I know that Nik has put some effort into recruiting members from elsewhere, especially those who were frustrated with the lack of an uncorrupted bushwalking discussion group. And there does seem to be a very large number of non-Tasmanian members registered.

[stepbystep]

Then there is this viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2950&p=31295&hilit=+more+officially+members#p31295 topic which indicates the mainland membership base is there, just not the participation rate.
I suspect Tasmanian members just do a lot more walking (because of all the opportunities) and therefore take a lot more pics.
I would suspect a descent photo taken at Purnululu or Karajini or on the Larapinta etc etc could win any comp, but who's going to drive the 2-3 days to get there from a metro area?

Maybe(a radical thought, notice winking emoticon)in the tradition of our own flawed democracy you can't login without casting a vote in both comps, with a site generated donkey vote option?

Anyhoo, that's another 2cents from me.

[Son of a Beach]

I'd like to suggest a standard way of identification, particularly for the AUS/NZ comp. I struggled with trying to guess where a couple of photos were from this month. For me the locality is a key piece of information. I think it would be a good idea to standardise descriptions by prefixing each entry with state/location and then provide further description as desired by the entrant. For example:

SA - Flinders Ranges. Wilpena Pound on a nice day.
TAS - Tarn Shelf, Mt Field NP. Fagus at its best.
You get the idea. Just my 2 cents.

This is a good idea. My only reservations would be:

• I want to make sure that entering the competition is as simple as possible
• To do it properly would require at least one additional field (or pop-up menu) that was compulsory to fill-in and which could be validated by the system automatically

Maybe(a radical thought, notice winking emoticon)in the tradition of our own flawed democracy you can't login without casting a vote in both comps, with a site generated donkey vote option?

I like this idea!!!

[jcr_au]

Would it not be sufficient to include a rider on the entry page that by entering the competition the member certifies that the photo was taken in the (insert Tas or Aus/NZ) and then we have to trust each other.

We aren't playing for sheep stations here are we