Bushwalk Australia

After years of faithful service from my $150 Canon Power Shot A550, I have decided it is time to upgrade. I would actually love a DSLR like a D3 (just joking) or a D300S, but as I practice lightweight bushwalking I have considered DSLR’s to heavy.

After some research I have decided to get a compact camera with a changeable lens and I have been looking at these cameras in order of choice.

1: Leica M9, for quality this is by far my first choice but I have ruled this camera out as my wife has refused to let me take out a mortgage on our house.
http://cameras.teds.com.au/search?w=leica+m9
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090909leicam9.asp

2: Sony nex-5, I like this camera as it is the lightest of the four thirds with changeable lens camera.

http://www.teds.com.au/www/6/1001102/di ... 88338.html
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNex5Nex3/

3: Panasonic Lumix Gf1:

http://cameras.teds.com.au/camera/Panas ... umix%20Gf1
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/

4: OlympusEP1: A bit cheaper than the others

http://www.teds.com.au/www/6/1001102/di ... 14864.html
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/OlympusEP1/

There are many Bushwalk Australia/Tasmania members who know a lot more about wilderness photography and cameras than I do and I would like to get some opinions on my choices.

I have not finished reading the dp reviews yet, I hope to complete this soon.

Thanks

Tony

Hi Tony,

If you still have some time before you want to buy a new cam, you maybe want to wait another couple of month. In September is the international photography trade show "Photokina" many manufacturers bring new models during that time. And even if the new models are no good for you, you may be able to pick up an old model on special.

samh

From my vague recall the EP1 is a 3/4 Sensor camera, which will give you far superior photos than any compacy or point nad shoot.

IMHO the Leica is grotesquely overpriced. Some of the older digicams were just rebadged panasonics.

I'd go micro 4/3rds

GF1 is light and quick, but price is holding up there. There might be a GF2 coming which will mean remaining stock might get discounted. Its as light as the NEX5.

EP1 is worth a look. Focus is slower than GF1, and its about to be discontinued, but the price is really good. Has IBIS (In body Image Stabilisation) (Panasonic does it in the lenses)

Unlikely that something cheaper will come along at photokina. There might be something better come along, but not cheaper.

I haven't seen a NEX yet, but the dpreview was not very happy with the interface. GF1 has the best interface of these so far.

Leica M9 would be a great camera, but as you suggest, serious money. And don't even look at the lens prices!

And definitely go and hold these cams in your hand before you buy. Take some shots, and consider which lens/es you might want. Specifications are only part of the story, its no good having a great camera if you have to fight it to get the image you want out of it.

Hi samh, drifting and photohiker,

Thanks for your advice, it is appreciated, I am in no hurry so I might wait until photokina to see what is new.

haven't seen a NEX yet, but the dpreview was not very happy with the interface.

I have read this, one of my work colleagues has a nex-5 and he finds the interface very good and cannot work out what dpreview is on about but we are all different.

I also think t he leica is over priced.

Tony

I should declare that I am biased, I have a GF1



Photo reviewers can go off the rails and declare an interface crazy when it is not, that is why I always suggest people go and hold the actual cameras in their hands. Could be that you are just as crazy as the interface designer

Also worth noticing that the Sony is an APS HD sensor, which is larger than the u4/3rds sensor.

Sony NEX5: 23.4 x 15.6 mm Exmor APS HD CMOS Sensor
Panasonic GF1: 18 x 13.5 mm 4/3 type MOS ('Live MOS sensor')

photohiker wrote:Unlikely that something cheaper will come along at photokina. There might be something better come along, but not cheaper.

Sorry, I meant that some of the older models maybe reduced in price once the new models get on the shelves.

samh wrote:

photohiker wrote:Unlikely that something cheaper will come along at photokina. There might be something better come along, but not cheaper.

Sorry, I meant that some of the older models maybe reduced in price once the new models get on the shelves.

Yes. I see you made that comment and you were right. oops.

Of course, it would be great if something better came in cheaper, but its a rare thing...

Hi photohiker,

photohiker wrote:I should declare that I am biased, I have a GF1

IMG_0218.jpg

Photo reviewers can go off the rails and declare an interface crazy when it is not, that is why I always suggest people go and hold the actual cameras in their hands. Could be that you are just as crazy as the interface designer

Also worth noticing that the Sony is an APS HD sensor, which is larger than the u4/3rds sensor.

Sony NEX5: 23.4 x 15.6 mm Exmor APS HD CMOS Sensor
Panasonic GF1: 18 x 13.5 mm 4/3 type MOS ('Live MOS sensor')

Thanks for the photo,

I have some questions, why did you choose the GF-1 over others and now that you have used you GF-1 for a while what do you think of it and how easy is it to use.

Tony

Tony wrote:I have considered DSLR’s to heavy.

Hm,
Nikon D3100 + 18-55mm ~ 710g, not much more than the Lumix, but probably more bulky.
Note also that the Olympus and the Sony come without an inbuilt flash.

But I have to say i'm biased too. Always have used Nikon DSLR and it doesn't look like it's going to change.

Tony wrote:I have some questions, why did you choose the GF-1 over others and now that you have used you GF-1 for a while what do you think of it and how easy is it to use.

Hi Tony,

The GF1 was lighter and faster than the Olympus EP1, and it's menu system was easier (for me) to use. There really wasn't a lot in it but the ease of use was the biggest factor for me. Soon after I bought the GF1, out came the EP2, and then the EPL1 - I haven't looked at them, they may be equivalent or better.

I was looking for an alternative to a full frame DSLR to use on multiday hikes. It performs that role very well, and delivers surprisingly good images given the difference in the sensor size between it and my 5D. I use the 7-14mm (14-28mm equivalent) quite a lot, but if I really want to keep the weight and bulk down, the 20mm 1.7 (100g) is a very capable lens, and takes the combined weight down to roughly 485g. The camera is quite easy to use, like all things, it takes a little while to become accustomed to the controls, and ultimately the camera is not quite as flexible as the 5D but it is certainly no slouch. I'd like for the EVF to have a larger eyepiece and better resolution, perhaps that will come with the next update.

samh, the Nikon D3100 is a great camera, and given its a 1.5 crop camera, the kit 18-55 lens is a 27-82.5mm equivalent. That's not nearly wide enough for me. The 7-14mm in the photo is a very high quality ultrawide zoom lens but weighs just 300g. If you wanted something roughly equivalent to the 7-14 on the D3100 you'd need a 10-20mm and that would take the combo up around a kilo. By way of comparison, I use a Canon 17-40mm on my 5D, the lens alone weighs 475g and the camera and lens combo is about 1370g, so you can see why this micro gear is attractive to me for multiday hikes.

Hi Sam,

samh wrote:

Tony wrote:I have considered DSLR’s to heavy.

Hm,
Nikon D3100 + 18-55mm ~ 710g, not much more than the Lumix, but probably more bulky.
Note also that the Olympus and the Sony come without an inbuilt flash.

But I have to say i'm biased too. Always have used Nikon DSLR and it doesn't look like it's going to change.

Thanks for your views and pointing out about the Olympus and Sony not having an inbuilt flash, the Nikon D3100 is very tempting but as you pointed out bulky.

I work in a research lab where we use Nikon cameras and have for 30 years or so, I know from experience they are great cameras, we have 4 x D300, 4 x now old D100. We also have lots of F series cameras (F2, F3, F301) and lots of top quality nikor lenses of different specs all siting in a cupboard unused for many years and the boss does not want to sell them.

The D300 is a superb camera and for every day use I would love to own one.

Tony

Hi photohiker,

photohiker wrote:

Tony wrote:I have some questions, why did you choose the GF-1 over others and now that you have used you GF-1 for a while what do you think of it and how easy is it to use.

Hi Tony,

The GF1 was lighter and faster than the Olympus EP1, and it's menu system was easier (for me) to use. There really wasn't a lot in it but the ease of use was the biggest factor for me. Soon after I bought the GF1, out came the EP2, and then the EPL1 - I haven't looked at them, they may be equivalent or better.

I was looking for an alternative to a full frame DSLR to use on multiday hikes. It performs that role very well, and delivers surprisingly good images given the difference in the sensor size between it and my 5D. I use the 7-14mm (14-28mm equivalent) quite a lot, but if I really want to keep the weight and bulk down, the 20mm 1.7 (100g) is a very capable lens, and takes the combined weight down to roughly 485g. The camera is quite easy to use, like all things, it takes a little while to become accustomed to the controls, and ultimately the camera is not quite as flexible as the 5D but it is certainly no slouch. I'd like for the EVF to have a larger eyepiece and better resolution, perhaps that will come with the next update.

samh, the Nikon D3100 is a great camera, and given its a 1.5 crop camera, the kit 18-55 lens is a 27-82.5mm equivalent. That's not nearly wide enough for me. The 7-14mm in the photo is a very high quality ultrawide zoom lens but weighs just 300g. If you wanted something roughly equivalent to the 7-14 on the D3100 you'd need a 10-20mm and that would take the combo up around a kilo. By way of comparison, I use a Canon 17-40mm on my 5D, the lens alone weighs 475g and the camera and lens combo is about 1370g, so you can see why this micro gear is attractive to me for multiday hikes.

Thanks for your views on the different cameras, it certainly has given me something to think about, when I can I will go into a shop to have a look at all of the cameras that I am interested in.

Tony

I looked at the D300 but decided on the D700. Very happy! Still too heavy for what you're looking for.
The thing I don't like about compacts / P&S cameras, apart from the delay, the lenses are usually very prone to CA. I dislike CA a lot and see it as a major flaw in photography. Choose carefully, and test high contrast shots at both ends of the zoom scale.

Don't totally dismiss the SLR idea. A couple of months ago, my well-used Canon A95 began showing signs of its age - looked like scratches on the negative

I went looking for an SLR, having not had one since my Pentax film SLR gave up the ghost 5 years ago. I was resigned to the idea of bulky and heavy, based on Nikon and Canon SLRs. But I was looking forward to being able to use a polariser filter again

However, the guy in Domayne pointed out the Olympus E620, which is the smallest and lightest SLR on the market. There are kit zoom lenses which again are smaller and lighter than Canon or Nikon equivalents. But there are also what they call pancake lenses, fixed focal length lenses that are much smaller and lighter than the zooms.

In the end, by shopping around, I got a great deal: twin lens kit, spare battery, filters, 2x8GB cards and extended warranty for $1463. (In truth, I jagged this. The local Good Guys was discontinuing the model and selling it for about $300 less than anyone else.)

I'm still getting used to it, but I have to say the improvement in quality, primarily the lenses I think, is very noticeable.

Tony wrote:3: Panasonic Lumix Gf1:

http://cameras.teds.com.au/camera/Panas ... umix%20Gf1
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/

Hi Tony

Thanks for thread and the links. Has any one with a SLR used this camera or its smaller brother the L3 which I believe is been replaced by the L5. I have a Canon 400D which I am very happy with but when my Canon S70 started to show its age after one too many soakings I chose a Canon D10 and was rather under whelmed by the picture quality. Was given a brochure for the new Ricoh's GXR http://www.ricohcameras.com.au/Cameras/GXR.html which changes the lens and sensor in the same package so results in a system that has better dust resisting performance so might suit bushwalking better. Anyone used one of those.

Cheers Brett

Brett wrote:

Tony wrote:3: Panasonic Lumix Gf1:

http://cameras.teds.com.au/camera/Panas ... umix%20Gf1
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/

Hi Tony

Thanks for thread and the links. Has any one with a SLR used this camera or its smaller brother the L3 which I believe is been replaced by the L5. I have a Canon 400D which I am very happy with but when my Canon S70 started to show its age after one too many soakings I chose a Canon D10 and was rather under whelmed by the picture quality. Was given a brochure for the new Ricoh's GXR http://www.ricohcameras.com.au/Cameras/GXR.html which changes the lens and sensor in the same package so results in a system that has better dust resisting performance so might suit bushwalking better. Anyone used one of those.

Cheers Brett

Brett, see my reply above.

I've had a couple of Canon DSLRs and currently have a 5D. If you were underwhelmed by the picture quality on those P&S's I'd be confident in saying that the problem is with the size of the sensor and the quality of the lens of your previous cameras. On the other hand, it could be the operator.

Go and try one out is the best advise I can offer. GF1 gives DSLR quality. It's not high end DSLR quality, but it is a big step above the P&S's

I cannot comment on the LX3/5. I've heard good things, but not ever played with one.

Hi Michael

The Canon 10D is rugged little blighter but the sensor and also likely the lens not up to what I expected as it is a rather ordinary internals behind the tough case. The Canon S70 was a great camera in its day with near full manual control, good battery life, magnesium case, and compact flash card. It shares a battery and c/f with the D400 so together made a great package. Sadly such compatibility is a thing of the past with current Canon range.

I like, or more accurately, familiar the Canon menu system but the Panasonic with the Lieca lens appear a better image quality package. And yes, if you can not get a Canon 5D to work for you it would be worthwhile considering the subject of the self portrait to be the issue Us poorer people have to make do with the Canon 400D but even then that is a bit of nuisance to lug around compared to a compact. Happy to let others lug the professional bodies and all glass L series lenses around to photograph people-less landscapes

Anyway thanks everyone for the pointers.

Cheers Brett

Brett wrote:The Canon 10D is rugged little blighter

Just to be clear, I think you mean the Powershot D10 not the EOS 10D

Why do they make cameras with names so close that they can be so easily confused, even from the same manufacturer?

Hi Michael

Yes the Powershot 10D. After almost killing the S70 and being feed up finding a neat way of carrying the 400D I went ultra tough. The hard thing with camera for bushwalking is the trade-off in image quality, compactness, and toughness. The Powershot 10D was bit to much of a trade-off in the image quality stakes for my liking especially in tricky light conditions and also the lack of raw mode so hence the hunt for something that is a "bushwalking" camera, and for me a SLR, even a compact such as the 400D is a little on the big side for easy compact carrying and use. The Ricoh with the zoom looks like a good all-rounder with the twin lens kit as the compact zoom gives the easy of carry and point and shoot while the prime 50mm gives, according to the review, near Lecia quality with 1/2 macro size. Sadly the slow focus in tricky light conditions is a bit of a worry as many pretty places are in low light. And not cheap either as a 40D or what every the latest number is beckons.

Cheers Brett

PS names and numbers for camera series is a nightmare along with compatible but incompatible lens system even with the same mount such as some 30D 300D lenses not working on the full frame 5D but all full frame lenses working back the other way. No problem once you know but on ebay more than a few come up for sale where people have made that mistake.

photohiker wrote:Why do they make cameras with names so close that they can be so easily confused, even from the same manufacturer?

And like that's and accident! You're suppose to confuse them. "I've heard how great this 10D is, and wow look at that price" - buys a D10 for $350!

Brett wrote:

Tony wrote:3: Panasonic Lumix Gf1:

http://cameras.teds.com.au/camera/Panas ... umix%20Gf1
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/

Hi Tony

Thanks for thread and the links. Has any one with a SLR used this camera or its smaller brother the L3 which I believe is been replaced by the L5. I have a Canon 400D which I am very happy with but when my Canon S70 started to show its age after one too many soakings I chose a Canon D10 and was rather under whelmed by the picture quality. Was given a brochure for the new Ricoh's GXR http://www.ricohcameras.com.au/Cameras/GXR.html which changes the lens and sensor in the same package so results in a system that has better dust resisting performance so might suit bushwalking better. Anyone used one of those.

Cheers Brett

That Ricoh has shocking reviews, if it's the one I'm thinking about. And it's grossly overpriced.

We have an LX3 at work. It's definitely top-end for a point-and-shoot, but it's just a point-and-shoot.

Canon 1000D with a 18-55 IS kit lens. Make you a happy chappie, it will. Amazingly light too.