Completed The Overland

[Azza]

This is the price breakdown for the Milford track from late 2010...

24 Dec 2010 10.30am Boat to Glade Wharf 2 0 0 $140.00
24 Dec 2010 9.45am Bus to Te Anau Downs 2 0 0 $46.00
24 Dec 2010 Clinton Hut 2 0 0 $90.00
25 Dec 2010 Mintaro Hut 2 0 0 $90.00
26 Dec 2010 Dumpling Hut 2 0 0 $90.00
27 Dec 2010 2pm Boat Sandfly Point 2 0 0 $73.40

Hmmm.. Lk St Clair ferry not looking so expensive in comparison..So Milford you're paying $106 NZD per person for ferries..
Milford track is a 3 night walk, compared to the overland track.. you complaining about the cost and your getting a longer walk?
As I work it out, they're roughly the same once you include the park pass in Tasmania..

[Miyata610]

I guess for me I am not concerned about the facilities because I do not enjoy using tourist ventures in my own state, I prefer a wilderness experience. With better facilities and advertising (we see this all the time on the OT) you attract people that really shouldn't be there.

Parks are have barely any money, which probably explains your track fee.

Can you really not stay at any huts other than New Pelion? I know heaps of people (any have myself) that have stayed at Kia Ora, Bert Nicholls and others without taking the Overland highway.

Well as I said that was what I was told, it seems logical since it is by far the largest hut. They also set some kind of bounds on how far up and down the track you can go.

Can I suggest that the next forum member that visits the track finds a ranger and tries for a definitive answer?

I tried to have that conversation with Eric the ranger a few weeks ago, he seemed to back it up and talked about fines and being escorted out if necessary.

[corvus]

I guess for me I am not concerned about the facilities because I do not enjoy using tourist ventures in my own state, I prefer a wilderness experience. With better facilities and advertising (we see this all the time on the OT) you attract people that really shouldn't be there.

Parks are have barely any money, which probably explains your track fee.

Can you really not stay at any huts other than New Pelion? I know heaps of people (any have myself) that have stayed at Kia Ora, Bert Nicholls and others without taking the Overland highway.

Tad confused with this post however if you are not concerned about the facilities why comment
Why do you think we advertise for walkers on the Overland Track who should not be there
Who told you that you must stay at New Pelion Hut regardless of your intent
corvus

[corvus]

Old Pelion Hut is an emergency shelter only now but I believe you can still camp there dont remember any signs to the contrary.
corvus

[Penguin]

Have been following this thread with interest and dismay. I have had similar experience with the ferry.

The price of the ferry is to the point of usury. But I seem to remember feeling the same when I caught the ferry at the end of the Milford Sound track four years ago. Can anybody remember the cost.

Interesting comment so I will play Devils Advocate and ask how would you fund this service for a full year OK in season when you have a full boat load what about other times when I think the minimum passenger load is 6 ?
corvus

Always good to have a Devil's Advocate

It would be interesting to know their costs, fees to parks, any concession they had to pay to run the monopoly etc. I agree that the off season would not be profitable, but would that be in part subsidised by the peak season. Also a reduced service in the off season is reasonable. A boat a day
would be enough - or even three days a week in the off season. Take the four weeks off in the dead of winter. People could organise their walks around this if the schedule was known and adhered to.

Milford has a bit easier as the track is closed during winter.

These ferries are part business and part service. If you charge these fees for the ferry then it is reasonable for the punter to expect a reliable regular service, and some courtesy. I too have had my fingers burnt booking the ferry. It is impossible to run a service in a way that the user is happy with the way that they have been treated. I have felt more of an inconvenience that a patron in the past. The operators seem happy to cheery pick the most profitable trips and sometimes ignore the others. You can't please all of the people all of the time, but they do seem to have disappointed alot.

P

[Penguin]

This is the price breakdown for the Milford track from late 2010...

24 Dec 2010 10.30am Boat to Glade Wharf 2 0 0 $140.00
24 Dec 2010 9.45am Bus to Te Anau Downs 2 0 0 $46.00
24 Dec 2010 Clinton Hut 2 0 0 $90.00
25 Dec 2010 Mintaro Hut 2 0 0 $90.00
26 Dec 2010 Dumpling Hut 2 0 0 $90.00
27 Dec 2010 2pm Boat Sandfly Point 2 0 0 $73.40

Hmmm.. Lk St Clair ferry not looking so expensive in comparison..So Milford you're paying $106 NZD per person for ferries..
Milford track is a 3 night walk, compared to the overland track.. you complaining about the cost and your getting a longer walk?
As I work it out, they're roughly the same once you include the park pass in Tasmania..

Thanks Azza.

That ties with my memory. I also remember the sandflies

Milford is a great track, a few years back was in really good condition and the huts were all well maintained. But there is a lot more scope for side trips etc on the OT. Milford can be a great introduction to overnight waking for a newbie.

Cheers

P

[sthughes]

Best way to avoid the ferry fee is to walk the full Overland Track. Also means you can go home and say "I've completed the Overland Track" :-p

Yeah the OT is made special by the day trips. Mountains with speccy views, beautiful waterfalls and Lakes with perfect beaches. Ahh must go again some day. In the winter of course

[corvus]

Good feed back Penguin I have been asking questions about the Ferry for years now and believe it should be a Parks run enterprise but how much would that be the cost to us Taxpayers ??

I honestly believe private enterprise is struggling to make a decent profit at St Clair as the numbers unlike at Cradle in my observation are not there so separating the Ferry service from the Cafe and Camp Ground Concession may be the answer who knows however if running the Ferry was cost negative I am sure "Parks " would have done it by now
corvus

[Nuts]

I think that's about right Corvus. And the numbers on the Overland Track in general having been heading down for a couple of years.
Its easy to guess at the sums but keeping a qualified driver on staff, year round prepared to live near the lake wouldn't be cheap for parks or private enterprise.
Even before any operational costs this could take (i'd imagine) 6/8 'seats' every day to pay?

It may be hard to grasp for those in salaried jobs but I would imagine the business profile of a barely profitable charity without donation or grants. On top of that is a public expectation that rarely includes any praise that at least a charity might get.

It must be hard for a (apparently) simple looking business to make any profit above public 'expectations' without being pressured to start giving it back.

There have been several recent operators, i'd imagine equipment is handed on 'as is'.
Variations on routes and tours and types of boat have been trialled in my time up there. None of these must have been profitable.
Many of the passengers are gong to smell.
They will be hungry and impatient.
They are very likely to have pre-judged you are ripping them off


Iv'e got no idea what the real costs are.

[norts]

The issue of access to Cradle/lake St Clair and where you can and cant walk, and use of huts in the Permit period keeps cropping up. It would be handy to have a definitive answer for people and not just a verbal answer from a ranger/faceless office worker. There must be a document somewhere. I cant find it on the Parks site. It would be good to get a copy of the document(s) that controls the permit system. Is it controlled by regualtions or a policy?
Can one of the Parks contributors place on this site a copy of the neccessary documentation.

Roger

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Sorry, but I'm going to be a bit of a wowser here

At the Cradle Mt end there is a free bus service (if you pay your park fees). So why isn't there anything equivalent from Narcissus to get you to the nearest car park and transport to Hobart?

The problem with this is that it needs to be funded. How would it be funded? Higher price for the OT fee. This would then mean people who choose to walk out are subsidising ferry rides, and there would be even more complaints about the price of the OT fee.

I think the cost of the ferry is a serious issue.

That's the cost of private enterprise. As someone who works in the tourism industry (not marine, but aviation), it can be easy for others to not fully appreciate the costs which are involved. I have nothing to do with the Lake St Clair ferry operation, but I might be able to give an appreciation of the costs involved in that sort of thing.
Things like "having a spare engine ready to go". This is easier than it sounds. You can't just put an engine on a shelf somewhere for 5 years and then strap it on when another throws a hissy fit. Having spares of everything seems logical, but sometimes is financially much more demanding than stopping operations for a week when an engine dies. If the fares now are $40 one way, it might be $50 one way for the operator to have a myriad of spare engines and parts lying around - and we all know how hikers would react to $50 one way!
I expect also you can't just have any mechanic doing work on a boat which runs passenger services. If it's like aviation, more than likely no-one can touch the mechanicals of the boat without the correct licences. If an engine dies and you need to do a swap - it might cost $50 an hour, every hour for a qualified marine mechanic to fix it - from the moment they leave some engine shop in Hobart, until they get back to Hobart a week later.
Other things are expensive too - life jackets for example. You'd think they just sit there for decades, but I guarantee they have to be sent to overhaul every 12 or 24 months. There's transport costs for this too, sending them back and forward to Strahan or Hobart.

I guess all I'm saying is that sometimes it's hard to appreciate costs in the transport industry, the majority of which are forced by legislation which is designed to protect the safety of the travelling public. Perhaps the ferry service has just broken even for far too many years, and the new owners are trying to squeeze out some sort of profit?

[doogs]

Good point S_A_H.
As someone who has recently owned their own business I can appreciate how much it is to run. For a start you can take $4 off the $40 for GST, leaving $36 for the operators. As mentioned above all the boat equipment will need to be regularly serviced. Then you have wages, expensive insurance for the boat, publc liability insurance, workers insurance, local council licenses, fuel, repayments on the loan for the purchase of the boat, whether they need to pay parks rent on the jetties and probably a lot more I can't think of now. Basically until you have owned a business you don't realise how much you have to pay just to operate, my guess would be these folks break even point would be several hundred thousand dollars for the year!!! If you are tight as a badgers fart then walk the lake as there is a perfectly good track. YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE.

[ILUVSWTAS]

YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE.

Except for when it ISNT working and we're forced to walk the lakeside unwillingly....

[Miyata610]

Oddly enough I've owned and operated a few commercial boats including one in survey as a ferry.

The biggest hassle was keeping it in survey, not only did it need regular and expensive inspections all the safety gear (and there's a lot of it) needed annual certification. Insurance was a huge expense. Unlike aircraft any old mechanic could work on the thing, and did, even me.

We didn't keep many spares other than for safety. You could always courier bits in. The suppliers kept pretty good stocks. Never really had a problem with that.

We had to operate with a master class 5, and as I remember a second crew member with little qualification. Interestingly a class 5 is usually pretty cheap because they're usually trying to build hours for a full masters ticket.

Other than that, I can't really add much.

Based on comments here it seems to have plenty of business and seems expensive. But none of us have enough information to really comment.

[doogs]

YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE.

Except for when it ISNT working and we're forced to walk the lakeside unwillingly....

Only half broken. I'd write to my MP about that, fancy taking tourists and smelly Poms on the boat and leaving the locals to walk the lakeside. Very un-Australian and spoiling a long planned trip

[dee_legg]

The thing that gets to me about paying $40 per trip for the Lake St Clair Ferry is that last time I used it, the whole lake was covered in thick fog and the young girl who was skippering the boat turned around to us as we were pulling away from the jetty and said 'So can you all stick your heads out the window and let me know if we are going to hit the bank... I don't know how to use the GPS'.... they aren't funnelling some of the costs into training obviously.

[ILUVSWTAS]

The thing that gets to me about paying $40 per trip for the Lake St Clair Ferry is that last time I used it, the whole lake was covered in thick fog and the young girl who was skippering the boat turned around to us as we were pulling away from the jetty and said 'So can you all stick your heads out the window and let me know if we are going to hit the bank... I don't know how to use the GPS'.... they aren't funnelling some of the costs into training obviously.

Oh lordy is that a true story Dee?? Yeh thats a worry.....

[stepbystep]

Am I correct in thinking the ferry is operated by LSC Lodge? I believe this is owned by The Federal Group. I reckon they could possibly be able to shell out for a better/second boat and a more reliable service.
Fat chance of any political pressure being exerted on that mob.

It's a catch 22, to make a profitable service a larger ferry is needed, therefore numbers need to increase. This would require more development/accomodation on the lakeshore and I think we all know the result of that..... tourists want a ferry that is comfortable/warm, serves booze/food and gives detailed information on all the fascinating factoids about the area by a guide that knows their stuff. It would need to run regularly and the tourists wouldn't want to rub shoulders with the great unwashed that boarded at Narcissus. I'm very much thinking of the Macquarie Harbour cruises, with the gold pass service up top and the cheap seats below.

Does anybody want that on LSC?

[dee_legg]

Certainly is true! It was October 2009 I think. Pretty sure the LSC lodge isn't part of the Federal group, it might of been in the past but I thought it had been privately owned and horrendously operated for a few years now.

[doogs]

There is no doubt that the service needs improved. But the price isn't too unreasonably, in fact it is possibly cheaper per km than the overland track from Cradle to Narsisus.

[stepbystep]

Certainly is true! It was October 2009 I think. Pretty sure the LSC lodge isn't part of the Federal group, it might of been in the past but I thought it had been privately owned and horrendously operated for a few years now.

Thanks dee, some equally ill informed fellow told me that the other day My apologies to the ruthless megalomaniacs at the FG

[mjdalessa]

Can you really not stay at any huts other than New Pelion? I know heaps of people (any have myself) that have stayed at Kia Ora, Bert Nicholls and others without taking the Overland highway.

Who told you that you must stay at New Pelion Hut regardless of your intent
corvus

Not quite sure if I get what you're saying. I was commenting on one of the above posts that talks about a ranger telling them that without a pass they are only permitted to stay at New Pelion. Doesn't sound right to me either.

[Nuts]

YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE.

Except for when it ISNT working and we're forced to walk the lakeside unwillingly....

Only half broken. I'd write to my MP about that, fancy taking tourists and smelly Poms on the boat and leaving the locals to walk the lakeside. Very un-Australian and spoiling a long planned trip

Maybe they thought we were all gonners , thought they couldn't chance loosing 'locals' (or cranky blokes in kilts )

LSC resort (and ferry) is privately leased. The vagaries of seasonal staff have always been a problem for efficiency, it's always worth triple checking any booking or plan made with them. I personally haven't noticed though that the service ever was better (or worse) in recent years?

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Except for when it ISNT working and we're forced to walk the lakeside unwillingly....

Having a spare engine on the shelf, and a 24 hour on-call mechanic available, and a spare on-call driver at Lake St Clair in the event of illness ... if this were to drive the price up to $60 one way, would you pay that for a "guarantee" that you would get your ferry ride?

I know I would much rather pay $40 and take the chance that maybe once in a blue moon I might have to walk around the lake for four hours. If I might miss a bus/flight/work the next day as a result of the ferry going unserviceable, I would just allow enough time to walk the lake and make connections, or take out travel insurance.

[tasadam]

About a month ago (I could find the exact date) I know the ranger at Cradle was trying to organize a Parks boat to come from Strahan because the ferry was broken down again.

When we were coming out of Narcissus a couple of weeks ago, the ferry was running late... And later, and later, and it eventually arrived mid afternoon, with two brand new motors.
By then there were a LOT of people including two tour groups, and the anxious times continued for those that had connecting transport - some had planes from Hobart at 1PM that day, that didn't happen.

The ferry cost is correctly stated at $40, and the minimum fee is $225. That is, the ferry will run with one person if they are prepared to pay the minimum fee.
In September 2010 it was 35 each, and a minimum of $170, which we paid for the two of us to get into Narcissus.

We have had a couple of interesting experiences with the ferry.
Once, we arranged that so long as we got to Narcissus by 5PM we could radio in and they would come and get us that evening, so long as we paid the minimum fee which we were prepared to do.
We power walked into Narcissus at 4:45 and radioed in to discover that the driver had left for Hobart, and there was no-one to drive the boat.

Another time we were standing on the end of the Echo Point jetty waving our arms about, watching the ferry sail on by heading for Narcissus. It wasn't full.

Our recent time to Cynthia Bay, we were told that the ferry does not collect passengers from Echo Point. I questioned this... If we arranged it by phone, they would stop, but they (claim they) generally do not pick up passengers at Echo Point as they cannot guarantee there will be anyone there.
I asked the boat driver about it that day, and he didn't know they didn't pick up passengers at EP.
They do have their issues they need to sort out.

[Strider]

About a month ago (I could find the exact date) I know the ranger at Cradle was trying to organize a Parks boat to come from Strahan because the ferry was broken down again.

I did see the Shearwater being trailered north on the Lyell H'way about that long ago...

[ULWalkingPhil]

Why not just walk that last bit on the Overland Track instead of taking the ferry. I have no plans on taking a ferry. As long as fitness is fine and your are prepared with quality gear, surely you's want to get the most out of the experience. Do many people choose to walk instead of taking the ferry?

[MrWalker]

Why not just walk that last bit on the Overland Track instead of taking the ferry. I have no plans on taking a ferry. As long as fitness is fine and your are prepared with quality gear, surely you's want to get the most out of the experience. Do many people choose to walk instead of taking the ferry?

The view is heaps better from the ferry. In fact the ferry has some of the best views on the OT for a section with no climbing.
Although the track follows the lake-side there are few good view of the lake or of Mt Ida. Although you expect it to be flat the track is exceptionally undulating north of Echo point, but since there is neglible change in altitude there is limited variety in vegetation. Basically it is a dull walk compared with the rest of the OT.
I would recommned all OT walkers take the ferry, if it wasn't for the cost.

[Turfa]

I think the walk down the lake is beautiful, & Echo Point is a great place to camp. A little tight on space, but a fantastic place to spend a lazy afternoon. The walk through the forest along the lake really reminds me of some of the forests in N.America where I have some great hiking memories......Don't take the boat, spend an extra day on the track & enjoy yet another type of wonderful landscape on the OT !