Cost of hiking the track

[wayno]

once apon a time the only way to do the milford track was as part of the govt owned tourist hotel corporation (THC) guided walk.
you'd paid todays equivalent of $400 a day to do the track, staying in the equivalent of a hotel in the bush.
the otago tramping club changed that, they wrote to the THC and told them they were going to walk the track entering if over Dorre Pass and they were going to stay in their own tents and do it for free....
there was a lot of support for what they did and a lot of public pressure came to bear on the govt to allow freedom walkers on the track and eventually establish a seperate set of huts for freedom walkers. you can technically do the track for free if you do it in a day or you camp at least 500 metres from the track, but the narrowness and steepness of the valleys make that a bit of a mission on this track...

[Ent]

Sadly we see yet again "people must do as I do or they are weak or irrelevant" from some. Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

[tastrax]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

Yes - its called the "Three Capes Track" and its under construction

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=23416

[wayno]

i usually do a great walk around xmas new years,,, the no of aussies on the great walks during the holidays outnumbers all other nationalities combined, esp in recent years. htey tend to say the same thing, "we have nothing like this in Aussie"
outside of teh holiday period there are still few nzers, but the huts are still busy with foreigners. makes me wonder why so few NZers take advantgage of these tracks...

[stepbystep]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

It's called Cradle Huts I believe. There are also numerous guiding companies that can look after inexperienced folk in all manner of places, so why the obsession re. huts? Is it perhaps simply a desire of yours rather than a genuine desire for others to be gently encouraged into the bush? Do you want people entering ANY alpine Tasmanian areas without tents? Did you not in another thread show wonder at how a ranger could follow a good track so well? I believe you noted that without their tracks you would have had to navigate very carefully. If someone with your immense local knowledge would be concerned about this, how and why would you want inexperienced walkers taking that on. Have you not witnessed yourself how quickly and dramatically tings can change in Tasmania?

You are on the one hand complaining of the money PWS spent on Bert Nichols hut and on the other you want them to spend far more on an even more luxurious series of huts...????
Bottom line is PWS is stretched already, good people are being put off and good programs are being neglected, and as wayno seems to be alluding to docs in NZ are also facing cutbacks, so perhaps their system is running at a loss...

I just can't figure your logic?

If you are concerned about people learning the skills required to do walks like The Walls, Mt Field or Freycinet I'd suggest they do 2 or 3 years of daywalks before gradually gearing/skilling up for overnighters, or go with professional guides.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

Yes - its called the "Three Capes Track" and its under construction

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=23416

Or the OT. Isnt that exactly what it is or am i missing something here?? The OT is a good beginner level walk with great infrastructure for those who dont know about tenting. Or is that just more ramblings from an armchair expert??

[ollster]

I for one think the cost should go up for people not from Tassie, and down for people from Tassie. Mainlanders and other tourists should be subsidising it. Discuss.

[stepbystep]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

Yes - its called the "Three Capes Track" and its under construction

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=23416

Or the OT. Isnt that exactly what it is or am i missing something here?? The OT is a good beginner level walk with great infrastructure for those who dont know about tenting. Or is that just more ramblings from an armchair expert??

I don't believe either has or will have gas stoves and showers which seems to be a big part of the NZ experience and the OP's gripe. But yeah I think you are correct, 3 capes looks even more beginner friendly but I have no doubt many complaints will flow re. costs of accessing and building the huts, and on it goes.....

[ollster]

I don't believe either has or will have gas stoves and showers which seems to be a big part of the NZ experience and the OP's gripe. But yeah I think you are correct, 3 capes looks even more beginner friendly but I have no doubt many complaints will flow re. costs of accessing and building the huts, and on it goes.....

It's ok, P&WS won't be able to maintain the current infrastructure, so it will all be falling down soon. Back to nature!

[wayno]

showers are only on the guided overnight walks, if you want to fork out $400 a day...

[wayno]

As a result of the benefits you do not need to take a tent, gas cookers or a mattress. This makes your back pack lighter. Something I believe most would appreciate.

Lol, good luck if you are stuck in a snap snow storm and/or get lost. You're as good as dead. Not taking ALL essential equipment is frankly, %$#@ing ludicrous.

there are additional fully enclosed shelters on the great walks to cater for such eventualities in the most exposed parts of the tracks.... it's pretty rare to get lost on the tracks, i've never heard of it ever happening.

[wayno]

the milford is the only track where i've seen it "closed" right down to putting a chain and sign over the track saying it's "closed"
they have to do that because of flood risk over a lot of the track, the track can get too deep in water to be able to walk on
on other great walks the rangers will only advise whether they think you should proceed, they dont have power to close the track or stop you proceeding
I proceeded on a day the hut ranger advised against it, it wasn't that dangerous for a well equipped, moderately fit person.
the rangers on the nz tracks give conservative advise for the more conservative trampers, and it harks back to the inexperienced coming to grief and prosecutions against doc.

[wayno]

the great walks arent totally a soft option, people have still died of exposure and injury on the nz great walks in summer.... and there are a lot of other people who've been hypothermic or close to it. there can be avalanche danger for months of the year. the rangers and gas stoves are only there five months a year, i'm not even certain there is any wood or coal left over winter.
the weather can do anything at any time of year, it's not uncommon to snow at xmas in the south island

[ollster]

the great walks arent totally a soft option, people have still died of exposure and injury on the nz great walks in summer....

Hence my comment about being properly equipped with a shelter...

[tastrax]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

Yes - its called the "Three Capes Track" and its under construction

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=23416

Or the OT. Isnt that exactly what it is or am i missing something here?? The OT is a good beginner level walk with great infrastructure for those who dont know about tenting. Or is that just more ramblings from an armchair expert??

I reckon the Three Capes will become the default "first big track" that folks walk in Tassie as it will have mattresses, gas cooking, hut staff etc. The second "big track" will be the Overland (a few less comforts and facilities but still hut volunteers etc), then something like Frenchmans cap Track (no booking, no volunteers)

[Ent]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

Yes - its called the "Three Capes Track" and its under construction

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=23416

Hi

Well I will be stuffed. Congratulations for having the courage to have a go. Only comment is not being a loop does make it a bit hard on single car families. Still cannot wait to see it in operations. Massive operation and no doubt will have a few issues but if it does not look like a disaster, half way through, then it would not have been worth doing.

I am impressed with the vision and it will add a much needed coastal type walk.

Cheers

[stepbystep]

....it will have mattresses, gas cooking, hut staff etc.....

Wow I stand corrected, so there you go Brett, just what you wanted

Will there be guaranteed beds for booked clients, therefore allowing people to leave tents at home as well?
Any idea on the fee structure etc Phil? Will there be options for people to do bits'n'pieces rather than the whole track?

[Ent]

Is there not at least space for one NZ type walk in Tassie?

It's called Cradle Huts I believe. There are also numerous guiding companies that can look after inexperienced folk in all manner of places, so why the obsession re. huts? Is it perhaps simply a desire of yours rather than a genuine desire for others to be gently encouraged into the bush? Do you want people entering ANY alpine Tasmanian areas without tents? Did you not in another thread show wonder at how a ranger could follow a good track so well? I believe you noted that without their tracks you would have had to navigate very carefully. If someone with your immense local knowledge would be concerned about this, how and why would you want inexperienced walkers taking that on. Have you not witnessed yourself how quickly and dramatically tings can change in Tasmania?

You are on the one hand complaining of the money PWS spent on Bert Nichols hut and on the other you want them to spend far more on an even more luxurious series of huts...????
Bottom line is PWS is stretched already, good people are being put off and good programs are being neglected, and as wayno seems to be alluding to docs in NZ are also facing cutbacks, so perhaps their system is running at a loss...

I just can't figure your logic?

If you are concerned about people learning the skills required to do walks like The Walls, Mt Field or Freycinet I'd suggest they do 2 or 3 years of daywalks before gradually gearing/skilling up for overnighters, or go with professional guides.

Curious indeed post.

First point. Cradle Huts is yet again another example of private infrastructure not Parks. QED.

Second point, what is the cost of a family of five doing the Cradle Hut experience? I think be cheaper to get “I have been to Bali to t-shirt”. Nice to think some are so wealthy.

Third point. I could be wrong and hope someone more knowledge can correct me but I am not sure if Cradle Hut walkers take tents and sleeping bags.

Fourth point. I with the Arm River Track was impressed how someone managed to hit the board walk a foot wide with total precision under a foot of snow. Sorry I do not have the ego to say that I would be as near as good. He was the head ranger so I would imagine he knows the area extremely well but still an impressive feat of feet placement. If there is a trick I would like to know it.

Fifth point. Actually, you will find I am a fan of the Bert Nichols hut but a bit undecided if it is inspired design or architect ego. Pelion and Vera are two much simpler huts that I like but now doubt someone in Parks will give and idea of cost per person in building such structures.

Sixth point. Ironically, at this very minute my new tent from England has turned up and emails are flowing on where to go to test it out. At Pelion I took a friend and it is nice to use one of the best huts around to socialise in and given that it was near empty due to a bushwalker alert was not afraid to humble myself to use it.

But all means put words in my mouth. My main bug bear is the endless stair case at Russell Falls, the now apparently defunked visitor interpretation centre at Cradle, the extraordinary track work into Wineglass Bay, Parks censoring maps, and lack of asset management that means in your language building something and letting it fall down along with not having appropriately qualified people managing infrastructure. Lack of graded overnight walk opportunities and one size fits all is my bug bear on this thread. I congradulate Parks on the walk just posted.

As a Tasmanian I am rather amazed that people fail to understand that not all families are rich enough to do the Cradle Hut experience. Many have to beg borrow and scrounge walking gear. And plan and cancel trips around the weather. Sure at my age and with the group that I walk with a bushwalker alert means an “experience” rather than any real danger. As being such an astute observer of my post you might have picked up that I am not pushing for any huts on the WA, sorry for those a bit precious of that abbreviation, the Western Arthurs. It is good some areas are remote and wild but sadly, the Chapman hordes, means without infrastructure serious environmental impact is happening.

I have noticed on many walks very few Tasmanians, four on the WAs that includes the three in my group. This means that the main overuse is coming from tourist so support a user pay and lets make a profit model. I do not apologise for that view. I get fleeced when I do the tourist thing.

moderation: personal comment removed

Cheers

[stepbystep]

Unlike you Brett I actually read your post and all I can say is I give up mate.

[ollster]

Unlike you Brett I actually read your post and all I can say is I give up mate.

90 seconds of your life you will never get back, my friend.

[wayno]

Much as I love New Zealand, I hate their style of 'Great Walks' with the massive emphasis on on huts and facilities. I wouldn't want to walk that way - too many people, too much like being at home and going for a short daywalk.

There's also a completely different mindset. In New Zealand, it seems to be more about making things as pleasant as possible for the walkers. The set-up is, essentially, more to benefit walkers than anything else. In Tassie - especially on the Overland - the huts and other facilities (including platforms and dunnies in places like the WArthurs) are there to protect the environment from the impact of so many visitors. The fact that the huts make the OT a bit more comfortable for many is a side-effect.

DOC provide a variety of experiences, yes the comfort is there in the great walks, but they also have wilderness areas spefically set aside for those wanting to have an experience in an area without any DOC insfrastructure. the vast majority of doc lands have basic tracks at best, and far more basic huts spread sporadically around. vast areas have no infrastructure, a friend of mine spent a month in fiordland without the benefit of tracks, huts or bridges, you want a rough challenging trip? you can find it in spades in NZ. fiordland and aspiring parks are over 300km from end to end with no end of valleys and ridges where you won't find a sign that humans have been there before

[tastrax]

....it will have mattresses, gas cooking, hut staff etc.....

Wow I stand corrected, so there you go Brett, just what you wanted

Will there be guaranteed beds for booked clients, therefore allowing people to leave tents at home as well?
Any idea on the fee structure etc Phil? Will there be options for people to do bits'n'pieces rather than the whole track?

I haven't kept up with everything about the track (only my areas of interest) but most of the reports etc are here and I reckon it will mention something on each of those points

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=21488

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=25657 - this is the latest stuff that has been produced (DPEMP) - some of the stuff is a bit dry but its all good information and provides a bit of insight into the area and the issues.

Of course there are also opposing views....which I am also sure you can find on the web

[wayno]

The difference between the provision of walking facilities between Tas and NZ stems from a difference in perspective on the part of Government. In NZ they have over 1000 huts for walkers to use. They charge for most of them, and apparently they make a profit.

To support this business, they encourage walking. None of this keeping off track routes secret like in Tas. They put bridges over rivers to allow access to wilderness, in contrast to Tas parks destroying the Gordon River Flying Fox.

They dont believe the ' you must carry a tent just case, nonsense, partly because their worst weather is so much worse than Tasmania's worst weather, meaning that trying to camp can just be a way to destroy a tent.

One thing they do is encourage wealthy foreigners to do specific designated ' Great Walks', for which they provide super facilities and charge a lot. For some of these walks, eg Routeburn, camping is prohibited within 500m of the track. This means the locals ( who are often no richer than the average Tasmanian) either pay big $ or walk elsewhere. Or pay normal hut prices off season.

The Overland Track, is Tasmania's attempt at making an NZ style Great Walk. It doesn't quite succeed because you can't book a bed and end up having to carry a tent.

If you can't afford the OT, then do what the New Zealanders do - go off season or go somewhere else.

JamesMc

you can camp on the routeburn, there are two designated campsites, you pay a lot less than for the huts.... the 500m rule is no big deal, it's an easy walk on grass to walk from one of the official capsites to find your own space on a reasonable sized valley floor.. theres a similar setup at teh other end of the track down the greenstone valley

[sthughes]

My 2c.

No issue with fee but do think for the money you should get something, even if just a guaranteed tent platform with a non-muddy track to the loo. Also like it if locals could bypass the booking system and get a fee reduction in return for not being allocated hut/platform space or something.

Parks spending is another issue, but what annoys me is the way they spend mega dollars on things when less would be adequate. Seem it has been mentioned take Bert Nicholls hut for example. Overall while I would change some bits and pieces I really like the hut, but for that amount of money you could probably have built 2 "bog standard" Pelion style huts and whilst not as speccy we'd have a nice (but not speccy) new hut at both Windy Ridge and Kia Ora. Second example: Very short section of track at Wombat Pool has been a bog for years. But instead of whacking down a dozen bits of treated pine and some chicken wire at that location they spent big dollars further up the track making an already decent section into a bushwalking super highway. With a different (slightly less lavish) style of board walk construction both sections could have been board walked, along with a whole heap more. It's like putting in a dual lane divided super highway between Ross and Campbell Town but leaving Baghdad to Oatlands a narrow gravel road.

Also if gas usage is costly on the OT why not give the huts thermostats? I mean I was at Pelion once and people kept running the heater well into the mid 20's! Better still make them "vending" heaters. Slash the OT fee and put credit card swipers on the heaters Actually I reckon with some vending machines up there you could make a killing. $10 cold beers in the summer, $10 coffee/hot chocolates in the winter etc

[Son of a Beach]

Unlike you Brett I actually read your post and all I can say is I give up mate.

90 seconds of your life you will never get back, my friend.

Moderation:

Guys, these kinds of posts are counter productive. If you have anything to contribute that is on-topic, please do so. Commenting on other people or their writing style, or what ever it is that you are referring to that is not on topic is not appropriate.

If you have a difference of opinion with another member, feel free to discuss what it is that you disagree with, but these kinds of pointless and vaguely insulting posts are not appropriate. Please desist from these kinds of comments.

[corvus]

According to their web site Cradle Huts Guests do not carry Tents or Sleeping bags so you have made a very good point Ent and the Guides as good as they are cannot possibly carry full shelter for all between Huts I believe.
corvus

[stepbystep]

According to their web site Cradle Huts Guests do not carry Tents or Sleeping bags so you have made a very good point Ent and the Guides as good as they are cannot possibly carry full shelter for all between Huts I believe.
corvus

The guides are however experienced, carry sat phones and an emergency shelter should a walker become injured, this is not the case in a free walker NZ model. Best not cherry pick facts.

[doogs]

As a frequent visitor to the Freycinet area I reckon the visitor number certainly justifies the investment in the track. After visiting the campground at Mount Field in January with my family I can also see the huge visitor numbers there too.
Also how can a visitor centre be defunked:
defunked
Of a dancehall, not as popular as it used to be, because of one or a combination of reasons: a) Poorly-maintained ambiance: missing lights, pictures, floor showing its age, etc.; b) Poor crowd control; c} Safety standards not up-to-par, d) Choice of gigs limited by budget cuts; e) Poor choice of food and drinks; poorly-prepared food and drinks; f) Too many people, not enough dance space. The pun on the word "defunct" is intentional.
That nightclub across the street is defunked. It's not drawing the crowds like it did just five years ago.

[Ent]

..... carry sat phones ......

On the recent Western Arthurs walk a satellite phone did not work when it was needed! It was supplied by a guiding company.

Regards

[JamesMc]

you can camp on the routeburn, there are two designated campsites, you pay a lot less than for the huts.... the 500m rule is no big deal, it's an easy walk on grass to walk from one of the official capsites to find your own space on a reasonable sized valley floor.. theres a similar setup at teh other end of the track down the greenstone valley

Quite right wayno, I forgot about the camp sites on the Routeburn. Mind you, if you only pay to camp, you don't get to use the hut facilities.

The fact that you can camp more than 500m from the track is kept pretty quiet. It's only so you can do other walks in the area. It's not a way to walk the Routeburn on the cheap.

JamesMc