Anyone had trouble with their down sleeping bag?

[audionuta]

Planning on walking the OT in Jan and understand we should be prepared to get wet!

Been researching about down vs synthetic sleeping bags or quilts.
We all know that down is lighter and packs smaller for a given warmth, when compared with synthetic. However, down suffers if it gets damp and is completely useless if wet.
Synthetic supposedly suffers less (still can add warmth to you) when damp or wet and is easier to dry. Also modern synthetics are getting closer to down on weight and, to a lesser extent, packed size.

Apparently your bag /quilt gets damp just from you sleeping in / under it. for a night or two no big deal - but for a week it can build up and reduce the insulation of down quite a bit - if not aired out / dried in the sun now and then.

From what I have read, including from backpackinglight.com, synthetic quilts / bags may be a better option for multiple nights in wet environments. Yet I can't seem to find any discussion on this regarding the Overland Track!!??
Seems most people use down and don't even think about it.

Sooo; my question: Anyone had any issues with their down insulation on the Overland Track?

[wayno]

never noticed a problem, most of my tramps have been in damp cool or cold conditions. air the sleeping bag as long as possible when you get to your camp site, put it outside if theres a wind, i dont think it will absorb that much moisture unless it comes into contact with a puddle.... also depends how much humidity builds up in the tent overnight vent it as much as practicable... references to bags getting progressively damp might be on really long hall trails over hundreds or thousands of k's and possibly where people havent tried any of the above to air the bag..... i've done week long trips where it was entirely cold and damp. never noticed damp buildup of poorer warmth from the bag...
synthetics might be getting close to down in performance, they are still a fair way off from matching it, for ability to loft and compact for a given warmth....

[Ent]

Always used a down bag and never had a problems. The worst I encountered was on a very bad condensation night when I wound up pressed against the tent wall with the foot. The WM Versa-lite outer did a reasonable job shaking off the condensation but still got quite damp but did not affect the performance of the bag. Generally when sleeping the body heat will "dry" a bag out. I do have a Gore-tex outer bag for such dramatic events but frankly it is rather overkill and not worth the extra weight. Worthwhile investing in a Sea to Summit waterproof eVent compression bag as they are the best storage medium I have found. You can reduce the bag size and it does not matter if you and your pack goes swimming as your bag will remain dry.

Cheers

[wayno]

oh yeah, the old foot of the bag against the tent wall getting wet. not uncommon and not a major. if you'relikely to come up against a damp tent wall along the length of the tent very much you might want to look at a bivy bag. you can get ones that are about 400gms, be aware it ups the rating for your bag a few degrees, some reckon ten degrees but that depends. the colder it is the less it ups the rating partly because the colder eh air you breathe in, the warmer the bag you need to make up for the loss of heat from the inhaled cold air.... bivy bags that overlap the face will have more warmth... as the inhaled air is prewarmed a bit

[Son of a Beach]

Shouldn't be a problem on the Overland Track unless you get water in your pack, or drop it in a puddle.

On a twelve day walk in SW Tassie during which it rained for 11 of those days, my sleeping bag started to feel damp on nights 10 and 11.

[wayno]

use a dry bag to pack your sleeping bag into to make sure it doesnt gain water in your pack and use a waterproof pack liner as well. or drybag packliner.
as mentioned already you can get breathabile waterproof stuffbags as well like ones made of event to help the bag with removing dampness when packed.

[ninjapuppet]

Overland track huts have wood heaters so worst case scenario just fire up the hut heaters.

I don't recall anyone ever resorting to this on the OT, but its there.

[audionuta]

Thanks everyone for your input.
I use Sea to Summit dry bags for sleeping gear, so wasn't too worried about it from that point of view.
We use a double wall tent so hopefully not too much condensation related wetting.
More worried about moisture building up over a number of nights in a potentially humid environment. Perhaps, as Son of a Beach and Wayno have said, this might only be a concern on a longer walk than the OT.
I have decided to use either:
a synthetic quilt from Mountain Laurel Designs rated to 28 degrees F, weighing 700 grams, or
one of two down quilts from Katabatic rated to 30 degrees F (565 grams) or one rated 22 degrees F (690 grams)

I have been very hesitant to use down on the OT, here are some comments from Ryan Jordan, founder of the BBL website, in reply to an email I sent him a while back:

"The Overland can get pretty humid in sustained rain."

"When the weather is good (high pressure, thus - low humidity), regardless of where you are, down is great.

When the weather is consistently rainy *and* cold (less than 40 degrees F), then synthetics usually outperform down, but the level of outperformance is usually only realized when you are out for about 3 or more nights in these sustained conditions.

The worst scenario for down is the 25-35 degree night, when it's raining or snowing. Then, down is a ticking time bomb."

You good people have given me some reassurance though, and down is back in consideration.

If I could ask another question; what do you folks think of the temp ratings of these bags for the OT in Jan? We will also be wearing a beanie and jacket (Patagonia Micro or Nano puff) to bed, and have very warm sleeping mats.

Thanks

[wayno]

according to this there isnt likely to be too much of a problem

http://reg.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weat ... num=096005

[wayno]

actually this is probably better mind you it's old data

http://reg.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weat ... num=096005

[audionuta]

See what you mean, anything good for about freezing should be more than adequate.

Thanks for that Wayno!

[Ent]

Overland track huts have wood heaters so worst case scenario just fire up the hut heaters.

I don't recall anyone ever resorting to this on the OT, but its there.

Gas at Waterfall, New Pelion (maybe a candle could be warmer at New Pelion)
Coal at Kiora
Wood at Windy Ridge

Cheers

[sim1oz]

I took a -12C (10F) WM Versalite down sleeping bag with me on the Overland Track last March and it was completely fine despite 2 days of bucketing rain and 2 days of snow. Check whether your quilt or bag has a water resistant outer. Don't let it get wet in your pack, keep it away from condensation on tent walls, and if you are concerned air it out on the track in sunshine or in the huts. I didn't do any of that, and just shook it out when we set up. BTW, I was also way too hot in that bag and used it unzipped as a quilt most nights.

[audionuta]

Thanks for the info guys.
Good to know about the different hut heaters, I'll make a not of that.
Those experiences with the WM (is there any better?) bag; exactly the sort or stuff I wanted to know.

Cheers!

[Ent]

Hi.

There are many good bags on the market but WM and OP are at the top of the game. Not cheap though.

In a soaked tent a day or so back the down bag stayed warm if rather damp.

Cheers

[nq111]

You will find that the water on the outer of the sleeping bag, even in a very wet tent, is mainly cosmetic (despite how it looks!). The moisture issue collapsing down is mostly vapour from your body condensing in the down - this is probably made worse by a wet shell slowing breathing.

I know this as I just spent a week in very wet tents doing the Ducane Traverse, and played around sleeping in a vapour barrier. The bag got pretty wet from the tent, but unlike other trips, there was no collapse of the down towards the end. Despite packing away a 'wet' sleeping bag in the mornings, the next evening a fully puffy and dry bag emerged from the stuff sack. This contrasts with some previous trips where the foot end in particular started to collapse over the nights.

A week on the overland track under most conditions moisture buildup is unlikely to be an issue. You will likely notice some collapsing of the down if it is humid and you only tent sleep. But overall your body heat should push out enough moisture to have minimal issues. Almost everyone uses a down bag on the track and have no significant issues.

Opinions differ but I don't believe in waterproof shells on down bags (and I used to have one with a waterproof shell). More important than keeping the water off the down is letting the vapour escape and any WPB shell will be less breathable than, say, pertex. Apply a DWR to a regular shell is fine. If you are still worried about moisture, or expect problems, start researching sleeping with a vapour barrier. They add a lot of warmth (too much in many cases for the overland track), and not everyone is comfortable sleeping in the humid environment of a 'plastic bag', but if you can manage those things, they are brilliant for preserving your down.