Tarkine

[Nuts]

Gloating isn't exclusive to any party but 'Serial Pests who should be Exterminated'.. exterminated? really? what, like tortured first? swords, bandannas and such?? It is those sorts of comments that come to mind on election day Mr Brett Whiteley Liberal MP
..
anyhow, not sure if we're allowed to talk about this topic? (which is ok by me coz iv'e had my say )
iv'e been interested in the outcome, sure others here are..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-15/f ... ection=tas

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 15 May, 2014 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[stepbystep]

"Venture wants to use it to help finance its much larger mine proposed for nearby Mount Lindsay."

There will be a lot of serial pests in need of extermination if Lindsay goes ahead. They'll need a nice big jail in the very least.

[gayet]

I saw the item earlier in the day, but given the last effort, decided not to raise it again.
Thanks for doing so though Nuts.

[geoskid]

Gloating isn't exclusive to any party but 'Serial Pests who should be Exterminated'.. exterminated? really? what, like tortured first? swords, bandannas and such?? It is those sorts of comments that come to mind on election day Mr Brett Whiteley Liberal MP
..
anyhow, not sure if we're allowed to talk about this topic? (which is ok by me coz iv'e had my say )
iv'e been interested in the outcome, sure others here are..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-15/f ... ection=tas

I agree, extremely poor choice of words to express his frustrations with this dogmatic group.

[Grindelwalddave]

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/245 ... rds/?cs=87

So the rush to get in and start mining in the Tarkine all came to nothing near Temma!!?? Who will clean up the mess of this abandoned mine?

[stepbystep]

Sadly with all the hysteria around jobs and greenwashing and jobs and red tape and jobs and greentape and jobs and being open for business and jobs people lost sight of the realities attached to these piecemeal ventures.

Shree's parent company were responsible for the Pike River mine disaster in NZ, the process to get any compensation for the 29 dead miners was excruciating for the families(after their battles they got well under 100k for their sons and brothers and husbands) and yet our government(with this knowledge) courted Shree like they were the saviours of the west coast. Shameful. And now they have no legal requirement to clean up the hundreds of tonnes of acid leaching waste sitting just metres from the Nelson Bay River. All of this was predicted by those awful green groups. And none of what is playing out is as a result of conservationists actions.

Here's to the birdlife of the Rebecca Lagoon, long may they live!

[stepbystep]

Also if anyone is interested. The next target in The Tarkine is Mt Lindsay, a massive tin and tungsten mine. All of the photo's in this gallery except pics 42-51 are from within the proposed minesite. The entire minesite other than the exploration roads is pristine old growth mytle rainforest. I hope you like the pictures and are swayed to visit The Tarkine. It's really beautiful.

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Mt%20Lindsay

[gayet]

Unfortunately it seems that is your home directory on DropBox SBS and so not accessible to the rest of us. Any chance of another link?

[stepbystep]

Sorry Gaye, not sure why that's not working. This album on FB is basically the same but gives you some descriptions

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 46cd4324e2

[gayet]

All good now. Wonderful photos.

Hurry up November!

[Nuts]

Nice pics.

Now politics aside, green politics aside, that was a pretty *&^%$#! poor effort at reporting. That the fact is not mentioned is perhaps a telling give-away that some operate soley in this political realm?

No real first-account references or unbiased examination of facts. We need to refer back to the other topic and consider that some concern will be from those wanting truth (rather than someones opinion to follow). In fact from the start I would have assumed that bushwalkers were generally concerned rather than some lesser 'opposition'.

I wont include it again, the proposal document is linked in the other topic. Anything beside oo-ah might be difficult, the narrowest minds may see any questioning as support for this miner..

It's not, not from me, I just think the truth is important.

Been trying to get at it, busy and other things at hand but if (eg sbs) you can offer more insight or know someone who is willing to chase the facts (or has done so) and provide them here, even in the face of questions, would surely move this conversation on?? (as I get the feeling that the world, or the mainstream world, has moved on from piccies as being 'truth' or enough..)

Is there evidence that stream monitoring has not been taking place or that there is no ongoing commitment to do so while operations are on hold? Indeed is there a way to access the data that has already been gathered without FOI tedium? (EPA hasn't been much help). There was a commitment to report, or have available this data for such purposes.

As I understand, all elements in suspension will make run-off either more.. or less.. acidic. Using the term 'Acid drainage' sounds dramatic, has this occurred?, does the level require 'drama'.
As I understand the acid content of areas of pyrite were of concern not the general overburden? Have they already excavated these areas?
Is this pyrite dumped 'meters' from Nelson Bay river?, the mapping doesn't suggest so but also, is there evidence already that their drainage system (shown in the proposal) will not minimise run-off?

In all sincerity, these are probably more questions for conservationists than greens (no really, the difference can be stark) but if the end game is 'who cares, just save stuff' there will be many people who consider saving stuff requires some 'truth' in this day and age. Unless it's just preaching to the converted.. which seems to require little more than a few piccies for some.. surely getting others on side is a goal? (aside from the gathering of hip green sycophants).

And yes, sbs, I have a smouldering attitude about tasmanian greens but that is really not an issue, I would dearly appreciate some relevant input! The company has been deservedly lambasted before (and i'm sure nobody will suggest a better company to mine the tarkine (lol)).. so there's nothing really new here?

Last edited by Nuts on Tue 19 Aug, 2014 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

And the dramatic effect on devil numbers. This just didn't add up from the start (for me), alternative suggestions and the hopes of tourism with complete ignorance of the effect of diverting up to 200k wayward tourists.. V (hopefully) well administered mine staff..

The view may be arguably tainted by employment but I do know that Nick has a long commitment to tassie fauna: http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasma ... 6889598651

---

Could we not already have some expansion of existing reserves, who is 'to blame'? In the realm of politics, conservationist actions have little sway, though do 'greens' really have 'no' effect on the overkill of opposition or tactics of mine operators? (It seems this too is an assumption).

The outcomes for the company, 'care and maintenance' how many minesites are in such a holding pattern? Bulong nickel mine, east of Kalgoorilie, has been in care and maintenance for over ten years, a vast amount of infrastructure being maintained. Suggests the real value in holding a lease, short term fluctuations obviously underpin mining economics and active operations | are surely the focus of their planning | usually of no real consequence = if/that the company goes under with the first downturn could have many causes other than the leases viability? The potential for environmental impacts could be around as long as the leases, or the government, not so much the company. Which, whatever left, imagine could be sold as an asset even in receivership.

Should say again that all natural habitat is worth conserving (imo). I wish for the future, we could find a way without the irresponsible embellishments. Believe it or not i would be filled with hope if someone (of any colour) could provide reasoned input and evidence (even motivated against my personal 'attitude'). Iv'e followed the various news events, never without spin. At the end of the day this battle/victory (green) thing should at least be about the destination, not the journey, needs consensus, but trash my posts if it helps

[Grindelwalddave]

The ABC TV report tonight split the blame equally between the Save the Tarkine appeals and iron ore prices for the halt on the Riley Creek Mine. Other news bulletins however barely mentioned the lower iron ore prices. The politicians of course were full on blaming environmentalists. How much has this mine progressed to date? Its a bit of a pity the environment is being scarred for mines that may not even proceed.

[Hallu]

The problem is, if a private company mine somewhere (even a foreign one), then goes bankrupts, it's up to the government to clean the mess... As far as I know, there is no law forcing the creation of a provisional fund at the beginning of the building of the mine to be used in cases like that.

[Nuts]

Then you need to know more! The company paid a bond initially, a further bond on the alteration. What is know is easy to find with the most basic search.

What matters (or the truth) may not be so easy to pin down... into which hopefully someone can give some further insight.

It would be hard to believe there's not far more to the story than (local) media would bother finding. Would also be hard to believe it's any external pressure so soon (the shut down mentioned months ago).

[photohiker]

Then you need to know more! The company paid a bond initially, a further bond on the alteration.

What sort of bond are we talking about?

Is this a bond of significant magnitude and research that would return the site to its original state should the company withdraw from the site or go into financial meltdown ?

It's a bit hard to believe its anything like that given the mining industry's history of blighting the landscape and leaving a visual mess along with a contaminated site and waterway.

Happy to hear otherwise, do tell.

[Nuts]

Who me

I want answers too, I keep on finding questions despite the rhetoric (but that is a good one):

Can anyone tell us what the bond amounts were, were they indeed paid, where will they end up, what the costs will be, what will actually be done with the rehab for this particular site?

[geoskid]

Then you need to know more! The company paid a bond initially, a further bond on the alteration.

What sort of bond are we talking about?

Is this a bond of significant magnitude and research that would return the site to its original state should the company withdraw from the site or go into financial meltdown ?

It's a bit hard to believe its anything like that given the mining industry's history of blighting the landscape and leaving a visual mess along with a contaminated site and waterway.

Happy to hear otherwise, do tell.

I thought you were up with these things Ph. There are are some good questions there, I look forward to the answers you come up with.
Err, you are on top of your biases , aren't you?

PS. Your effort gives me wood Nuts, keep it up.

[Nuts]

Wood? don't mention wood around these parts!

Just to say, they're not really meant or need to be seen as adversarial comments or questions .. and seen 'greens' asking similar.
I'm sure i'm not the only one who reads these things, conservation politics (as I see it), with some science-based conscience. Even if agreeing, generally, with a similar end result.

Though they are just as much questions for miners, public servants, politicians. And i'm sure there would be (even) better questions..
Unfortunately every group seems to have it's own biased front, practiced polemic and faithful. Some of us can handle the truth (lol)

Anyhow, almost outa air, almost - I do think a forum, such as this, is potentially a great place to get closer to the facts (bit of a dreamer too perhaps )
Too bold for many movers and shakers?

Oh Hallu- Wood: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wood

[stepbystep]

30 years of conservation gains being wound back by the Hodgman government. 1.5million hectares to be opened up to logging. The Tarkine particularly targeted.

Gobsmacked and gutted for all Tasmanians.



http://www.bobbrown.org.au/protected_no_more

Last edited by stepbystep on Fri 22 Aug, 2014 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

I thought you were up with these things Ph. There are are some good questions there, I look forward to the answers you come up with.
Err, you are on top of your biases , aren't you?

Mate, I have never heard that there was a significant bond attached to mining projects before so I asked those questions. The answers may inform or moderate my biases.

Nuts raised the bonds to Hallu as if he had the answers, but turns out to be a hollow response. I'm looking forward to hearing some answers if anyone has any. Can't do much research myself being en route for the next few days.

Feel free to contribute.

[maddog]

I thought you were up with these things Ph. There are are some good questions there, I look forward to the answers you come up with.
Err, you are on top of your biases , aren't you?

Mate, I have never heard that there was a significant bond attached to mining projects before so I asked those questions. The answers may inform or moderate my biases.

Nuts raised the bonds to Hallu as if he had the answers, but turns out to be a hollow response. I'm looking forward to hearing some answers if anyone has any. Can't do much research myself being en route for the next few days.

Feel free to contribute.

Mining bonds - Mineral Resources Tasmania:

The purpose of this document is to provide a clear description of the Tasmanian bond system for mining and exploration tenements.

Mining in Tasmania will be carried out under the principles of sustainable development.

The cost of rehabilitation and aftercare will be borne by the company or individual causing or taking responsibility for the disturbance.

A system of bonds will be used to ensure that mine sites are adequately rehabilitated so that there are no remaining environmental or safety hazards requiring remediation in the event of failure by the company or individual to carry out its mine site remediation obligations.

The system of bonds will be open and transparent and will treat all parties equally.

The system will be agreed between government and industry.

The system will have the following characteristics.

* The bond will be sufficient to meet the full costs of closure and aftercare, and will protect the government and the community from closure liabilities.

* The bond system will encourage progressive rehabilitation.

* The financial surety will reflect current liabilities and will be regularly reviewed, and may be reduced based on progressive rehabilitation.

* The bond system will be financially efficient. A range of options for surety purposes will be recognised. The cost of locking away working capital as a surety will be recognised.

* Existing operations will not be disadvantaged and forced to close prematurely by the bond system.

* The system will be risk based and the quantum of the bond will be levied taking into account an operation’s track record, past performance, financial strength and investment rating.

The bond system will be consistent with those in other Australian jurisdictions.

thttp://www.mrt.tas.gov.au/mrtdoc/domin ... 005_07.pdf

Mining Bonds - EDO

In past decades, many mine sites in Tasmania have been abandoned without adequate rehabilitation of the area taking place. Mineral Resources Tasmania currently manages the Rehabilitation of Mining Lands Trust Fund, which provides funds to rehabilitate Crown lands affected by former mining and exploration activities.

Funds from the Rehabilitation Trust are used to address safety hazards (for example, covering abandoned mine shafts), remediate contamination, conduct revegetation works and weed control.

To reduce the rehabilitation burden on the government, mining operators must now provide a rehabilitation bond before any work can commence in a mining lease area. This is a back-stop measure, which ensures that some funds are available to cover the costs of rehabilitation in the event that an operator fails to comply with environmental and rehabilitation requirements set out in their lease conditions.

http://www.edohandbook.org/doku.php?id=ch11

[geoskid]

Mate, I have never heard that there was a significant bond attached to mining projects before so I asked those questions. The answers may inform or moderate my biases.

Nuts raised the bonds to Hallu as if he had the answers, but turns out to be a hollow response. I'm looking forward to hearing some answers if anyone has any. Can't do much research myself being en route for the next few days.

Feel free to contribute.

Fair call Ph, I apologize.
I admit that my comment was not helpfull - and in fact was a throw away call to people of reason to evaluate issues fairly.

I will also admit that Happy hour went more than an hour.

My contributions will always be about the process of thinking by which we arrive( as a society) at conclusions about what we should do/organize ourselves collectively.

I will always say that this process is complex, needs thoughtful people with the capability to view issues fairly.

I can seem inappropriately flippant, I know, that is a coping strategy.
Please know though, I value your thoughts - always have. x

[Grindelwalddave]

According to this article in the Mercury newspaper this afternoon Shree minerals are being investigated for incorrect storage of mine waste which has the ability to contaminate the Nelson Bay River. More here http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasma ... 7049050625

[Nuts]

Is this indeed 'news'?

Shree Minerals faces federal investigation over storage of waste at Nelson Bay River Mine

HELEN KEMPTON
Mercury
September 05, 2014 2:31PM

FEDERAL authorities are investigating if Shree Minerals has contravened environmental permits by storing waste outside the open pit at its mothballed Nelson Bay River Mine.

Save the Tarkine says it had received correspondence from the department confirming the company was being investigated after notifying them about a potential breach in May.

Which federal department? Why did this department not already know of the permit amendment.. afterall it was news months ago?


The breach relates to the quantity and storage of acid-producing waste rock from the mine.

'Breach'.. referring to the permit amendment (potentially dramatic)? or not informing 'the department' (a technicality)?

Shree Minerals produced 20 times more waste in the seven months its embattled iron ore project was operating than was disclosed in its assessment documents.

The quantity wasn't 'disclosed', as we are led to believe, because the company didn't know.. is this not true? 20 times what? Isn't the quantity significant?

The company then sought, and was granted, a state permit amendment for the storage of the excess waste.

These amendments, are they particularly unusual in mining.. (is that the concern ?)?

But it failed to notify the federal department which is responsible for assessing any impact on threatened species.

Yes

Save the Tarkine said storing the excess waste above ground could affect the endangered Australian grayling, which is a primarily freshwater fish that uses the Nelson Bay River, and up to six threatened and endangered orchid species susceptible to changes in groundwater.

Could? Can it? Is it happening at this point in time? what would have to occur for that to happen? It's not good news if that is the potential, is this really an issue?
Are the remedial works and bond not significant?

[Nuts]

Nuts raised the bonds to Hallu as if he had the answers, but turns out to be a hollow response.

Hollow response For those who cant be bothered googling 'tarkine | shree | bond'.. then I reckon my hollow response is appropriate.
These issues don't just have to be discussed by the faith-based, there's the silent majority out here
PS I have no more than questions, mr average!, thought that was clear.. perhaps the cynicism of some local involvement (of what journos are allowed to know.. and then seeing what is made of it), an active google finger..

[north-north-west]

Shree Minerals produced 20 times more waste in the seven months its embattled iron ore project was operating than was disclosed in its assessment documents.

The quantity wasn't 'disclosed', as we are led to believe, because the company didn't know.. is this not true? ...

So we chose between dishonesty and incompetence. Given the potential for damage in this area, neither option is reassuring.

[stepbystep]

Breaking News:Shree Minerals under federal investigation for environmental permit breaches.

The federal Environment Department have confirmed that Shree Minerals are subject to ongoing investigations relating to contravention of environmental permits at the Nelson Bay River mine in the Tarkine.

The contravention relates to the quantity and storage of acid producing waste rock, after Shree Minerals confirmed that it would produce twenty times as much acid producing waste rock as disclosed in it’s assessment documents.

While Shree Minerals sought and was granted a state permit amendment, they failed to notify the federal Environment Department who have responsibility for assessing impacts on threatened species. As a result they acted outside the approved environmental conditions or their permit for several months.

The increase to the quantity of acid producing waste rock and it’s storage above ground have the potential to impact on the endangered Australian Grayling which uses the Nelson Bay River, and up to six threatened and endangered orchid species that are susceptible to changes in groundwater.

Save the Tarkine notified the Environment Department’s Compliance and Enforcement Branch in May.

“This cowboy behaviour by Shree Minerals shows why they never should have been trusted with a permit in the first place”, said Save the Tarkine Campaign Coordinator, Scott Jordan.

“Shree Minerals and it’s directors have history for failing to comply with the rules, and a place like the Tarkine should never be risked to the likes of Shree Minerals.”

“We call on Minister Hunt to expedite this investigation, and bring a quick end to the Shree farce.”

Shree Minerals were previously found to have commenced site clearing in May 2013 without having met preconditions of their permit, and were discovered in 2012 to have failed to cap exploration drill holes as required by the Mineral Exploration Code of Practice.

Shree Minerals current and former directors Sanjay Loyalka and Arun Jagatramka (resigned as Shree Minerals Chairman in Nov 2013) were directors of Pike River Coal when it was found guilty of nine charges relating to the mine explosion that killed 29 miners in NZ. Pike River Coal failed to pay the court imposed compensation to the families after receivers discovered the insurance payout to the company had been used to fund the legal defence of the directors.

Mr Jagatramka was also Chairman of Gujarat NRE Coking Coal (now Wollongong Coal) before standing aside and is now in dispute with new owners around ‘abnormalities’ in financial transactions. Mr Loyalka was a consultant to Gujarat, and served on the Gujarat audit and management committees and has also stepped aside. Wollongong Coal are now in a dispute with the former parent company, Mr Jagatramka’s Indian based Gujarat NRE over a $60million dollar sum owed by Gujarat for coal shipments. The company’s Wongawilli mine in NSW also suffered a roof collapse burying machinery, although fortunately without casualty.

Who are you questioning nuts and why? You, ent and the other apologists were told before the soil was disturbed at NBR this company would do this or something similar to no long term gain for Tasmania....try questioning the motives of the government for once. I take no comfort in saying "I told you so." I truly hope you look closely at a proposal like Mt Lindsay before you draft your next set of questions...

My next prediction. Wait for the re-definition of the term 'specialty timbers'...and how that effects 1 million hectares of forest reserves...but hey, what would I know!

[photohiker]

Nuts raised the bonds to Hallu as if he had the answers, but turns out to be a hollow response.

Hollow response For those who cant be bothered googling 'tarkine | shree | bond'.. then I reckon my hollow response is appropriate.
These issues don't just have to be discussed by the faith-based, there's the silent majority out here
PS I have no more than questions, mr average!, thought that was clear.. perhaps the cynicism of some local involvement (of what journos are allowed to know.. and then seeing what is made of it), an active google finger..

It's hard to tell if you're trying to just get a response or if you are genuine. Nuts!

The question was asked and your response was one that suggested there was an adequate bond... but, you didn't know if it was. That was a hollow response, and arguably faith based.

If you have no more than questions, why are you offering answers?

[Hallu]

How do you want people to monitor each orchid or fish threatened by the mining illegal waste dumping ? When you say a species is threatened, no one can tell you how many there are left EXACTLY unless they're large mammals. They're not gonna put a GPS tracker on each fish or have drones photograph every square cm of the Tarkine to count those orchids...

Last edited by Hallu on Wed 10 Sep, 2014 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.