Trashing the Tyndalls?

[whynotwalk]

Lake Huntly, Tyndall Range

Lake Huntly-small.jpg (104.94 KiB) Viewed 16436 times

I've just heard from someone in Parks & Wildlife that rangers recently carted two rucksacks worth of rubbish out of the Tyndalls. Apparently the overhang/bivvy above Lake Huntly, that's mainly used by climbers and base jumpers, has been getting pretty trashed. People have been cutting and burning King Billy pine and fagus up there, and toileting very carelessly as well.

All this in an area that has some of the most beautiful - and sensitive - alpine vegetation in the state. Grrrr!

Peter

[stepbystep]

This is awful Peter, maybe it''s worth appealing directly to the climbing community?

I'm heading up in late April so will have a look about

[ollster]

There are certain groups of outdoors enthusiasts that just don't give a *&%$#!. They need to wise up or *&^%$#! off.

[ILUVSWTAS]

What kind of signage is in the access point to this area?? Maybe they just need to be educated better??

[ollster]

What kind of signage is in the access point to this area?? Maybe they just need to be educated better??

They must've struggled to pass grade 1 if they need to be educated about keeping the place clean. No, I suspect an arrogant disregard for nature. It's common amongst "extreem doodz".

[daznkez]

Not good for the Tyndalls
Easy with the rhetoric Ollster,
Always thought you were an "extreme dood" from your many posts,
I noticed a large school group camping out on this very top 4 weeks ago
And Germans 2 months prior.
Hopefully the rubbish was fairly easily removed, just got to work on the cause
or
We can shoot everyone and we will know we got the culprit

[Azza]

Always thought you were an "extreme dood" from your many posts,

An extreme risk adverse dood....!

[ollster]

Easy with the rhetoric Ollster,
Always thought you were an "extreme dood" from your many posts,

"Extremely fond of cakes, dude" maybe. I'm thinking along the lines of the kind that would go to see the Krusty Demons. There are some users of the outdoors with zero respect for it's preservation. One of my utter hates is littering, whether it be in the 'burbs or out in the wilderness. It gets my hackles up.

[alex]

To save me writing it all out again, here is an edited version of a post i made on chockstone forum about a link to this thread.

Climbers (that i've been associated with, which is most that climb at the tyndalls) have generally been very environmentally conscious when at the tyndalls (read the guidelines on thesarvo.com for example). This summer and a couple of summers before there have been groups of base jumpers head up there (20 at a time this season), which has caused most of the problems.

I have lots of gear, ropes, food, cooking equipment etc up there stashed, but it is all in rafting barrels or dry bags hidden from public view and i doubt it would have been counted as rubbish and carried out. This is the same for all the climbers i know, each having a gear stash away from the cave and using the cave only for accommodation.

The base jumpers last year cut a track to the base of the wall, marching up there with saws etc and chopping down the vegetation over a couple of days. This was fiercely disputed by myself and other tasmanian climbers who were up there at the time (thread on thesarvo last year), but was to no avail. On that trip they left pink tags tied to trees at the base for a landing zone (which they were asked to remove, but did not), cut the track and toileted on the surface metres from the fresh drinking water source used when at the cave.

I have not been up there this season but climb with people that have, and a group of 20 base jumpers headed in there for a few days. Reports afterwards were that the tracks had significantly degraded with this much traffic and there was again no respect for the place. Parks were notified about their plans before they left, but as far as we know nothing was done at the time.

As for the firewood comment, i think if they looked closely they would realise that the wood is not actually used for fires, in fact im not even sure why its there. It was cut by someone years ago and for a guess is meant for emergency use, having not been touched in at least the 4 years ive been going up there. I could be wrong about this if it has been burnt this season, but i doubt it.

You only need to go to the Tyndalls once to see how amazing the place is, I and other climbers in Tas have no interest in trashing the place and its quite an insult to be labelled 'feral climbers' by someone who has no idea about the situation.

Alex Lewis


Also - Parks were notified that the group of 20 BASE jumpers were going up there this season, to which they said they were aware that the base jumpers cut the track and were keen to catch up with them, but as far as we know no action was taken.

[stepbystep]

Thanks for the post Alex, good to hear you are aware of it and I hope giving at least other climbers that are doing the wrong thing a serious guilt trip.

There are some walkers that also do the wrong thing and many of us regularly carry others rubbish out. Same applies for toileting(check the thread on Lake Rhona) to think no climbers are doing the wrong thing is ridiculous. I hope you encourage correct practices for alpine areas? If going up in groups regularly have you thought about pootubes?

I think PWS will be interested in your stashes, we(walkers) aren't allowed stashes or food drops so the same applies for climbers unless you have special arrangements???

As for Base Jumpers going up in large groups PWS really does need to pursue this, I'm sure they have posted pics online and left a snail trail. Groups this big should not be up there be they walkers, climbers or whatever

[ollster]

Agree with sbs, good post. I know a lot of climbers, they're generally not disrespectful.

As for Base Jumpers going up in large groups PWS really does need to pursue this, I'm sure they have posted pics online and left a snail trail. Groups this big should not be up there be they walkers, climbers or whatever

The base jumpers were the extreme dudes I was thinking of. There are some videos on youtube possibly of the people in question (it's not a common pursuit after all) if it's the base jumpers that are causing the problem.

Linky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGe_7u5cRhs

[Nuts]

Who knows, local climbers ive met are generally pretty respectful. Iv'e also met some young guys only into themselves (and in the eyes of each other).
That's what being an extreme dood is all about though right?

Whatever, i'ts pretty clearly not 'bushwalkers'

Anyhow, here is the aus base association president: GaryC@basejumpingdisplays.com They have a forum but i'm all outa cool forum names lol

[Kozzie]

NO GOOD GOD DAMN SKATEBOARDERS!!!! i mean BASEJUMPERS!!

[Nuts]

Hey, wait up, iv'e still got my board

[ollster]

NO GOOD GOD DAMN SKATEBOARDERS!!!! i mean BASEJUMPERS!!

Lol. Those scooter riders as a damn nuisance too.

[NickD]

Oh great. Another area that is being trashed, degraded and overused and no funds or personnel to deal with it. Kick another goal Tasmania.....

[Kozzie]

Ive watched a few docos on basejumping and theres a few quotes that allways haunted me such as no matter who or how good you are you either quit from injury or death and if you base jump regurly youll know several people that have died. So i looked up the statistics thinking itd be god awful.horrible but it really doesnt look to bad. It is somehing ive allways wanted to do but the whole dreaded 180 thing where your chute opens faceing the wrong way and you just careen back into the rockface wall has allways scared the *&%$#! out of me because theres not to much you can do about.it. Subsequently it seems to be the biggest factor in deaths. I had NO IDEA antennas playd sich a large part. Ive got 2 antenna mobs that live on my street alone if you want i can pass on there numbers and if you really want they could put a few around the place and fix your problem.

[wander]

Maybe the Hydro could run a few HV lines through the area.

That is a nice high looking lake, maybe a small genset on the outflow could be useful.

[Telopea]

Cutting down trees to make launch sites, leaving rubbish etc........lets see fines range from $130 to up to $65,000 for cutting down trees. Maybe a few of these dished out would deter them.

[Josh]

In every activity there are the majority who do the right thing and a few who muck it up for everyone else. I am a walker, climber AND base jumper and I see it regularly across all 3 communities.. we do what we can to educate, socialize and encourage responsible wilderness ethics, and we lead by example, but sometimes people just don't have any respect

I was on the BASE trip mentioned (not 20, closer to 10 but a large group nonetheless) and we were very stringent on basic ethics.. we walked only on established trails in single file, took all our rubbish out with us (though we left spare food and gas in the cave with someone's existing stash, I apologise I was unaware that emergency food caches were not allowed in the area?) lit no fires and cut no trees.
Unfortunately the weather was terrible and we didn't get to jump, as such I don't know first hand what damage was done in creating a landing area.. but where I'm from we are known for being very good canopy pilots (or for having broken legs!) because we land wherever we can without cutting out landings, I don't know why this couldn't happen at Lake Huntley too? Then if a jumper is not sufficiently skilled for the landing required they can choose not to jump! We will be having a chat to the guys that cut out the landing.. There are valid arguments for both sides but at the end of the day it is my strong belief (and that of many jumpers) that our activities should have an absolutely bare minimum of impact, and absolutely no impact that is not easily manageable & reclaimable by the local environment, so please don't tar us all with the same brush rather let's work together to make sure everyone is held accountable but is still able to enjoy their chosen poison in a responsible way!!

[Kozzie]

I heard you need 250 plane jumps before you start baseing. I cant imagine guys are doing anymore then a tenth of that. How many solo jumps from a plane did you do before you started baseing? Im curious but no way can i afford it money wise. I like kiteing so i plan on doing paraglideing and a bit of skydiveing to help me be more aerialy aware cant bring myself to do gymnastics tho apparently thats way to go.

[Liamy77]

what about a sign at the top?...

People who litter here may find their ropes getting cut - when they're halfway down?

Also - Parks were notified that the group of 20 BASE jumpers were going up there this season, to which they said they were aware that the base jumpers cut the track and were keen to catch up with them, but as far as we know no action was taken.

Not keen enough by half it seems... [sigh]

This summer and a couple of summers before there have been groups of base jumpers head up there (20 at a time this season), which has caused most of the problems.
The base jumpers last year cut a track to the base of the wall, marching up there with saws etc and chopping down the vegetation over a couple of days. This was fiercely disputed by myself and other tasmanian climbers who were up there at the time (thread on thesarvo last year), but was to no avail. On that trip they left pink tags tied to trees at the base for a landing zone (which they were asked to remove, but did not), cut the track and toileted on the surface metres from the fresh drinking water source used when at the cave.
Parks were notified about their plans before they left, but as far as we know nothing was done at the time.

Take photos of em doing this stuff and send a copy to PWS... especially if you can get a shot of their car plates too. Being forced to be responsible for your actions and PWS getting of their butts and following it up with fines etc would sure help too but then maybe they can't employ enough butts ATM... - hey PWS you need funds? well start giving out fines to dipsticks and earn some $ !!?

[ollster]

Take photos of em doing this stuff and send a copy to PWS... especially if you can get a shot of their car plates too. Being forced to be responsible for your actions and PWS getting of their butts and following it up with fines etc would sure help too - hey PWS you need funds? well start giving out fines to dipsticks and earn some $ !!?

Judging by the P&WS response to our reporting of the dogs on the SCT a couple of years ago, I would expect zero response. They're too busy commissioning *&%$#! art works for badly designed huts, or building walking tracks we don't want.

[Kozzie]

I fear olister is right. I never thought it would come to this!
RELEASE THE DROP BEARS!!!

[Liamy77]

maybe leave a large toilet flower right in the middle of their windscreen? (better be sure it is their car tho)
you know- see how they like THEIR environment disrespected?!

[ollster]

maybe leave a large toilet flower right in the middle of their windscreen? (better be sure it is their car tho)
you know- see how they like THEIR environment disrespected?!

I was tempted to let the tyres down of the car of the dog people at Lune River, but even with a car full of dog hair and toys, I still was not that evil.

[Liamy77]

disabling their vehicle could be putting someone at risk (medical aid etc...), toilet flower just insults the senses...
But I spose one can't be 100% sure of the car... I'm too shy to do it really just an evil thought I guess.
Seemed like poetic justice in my head -

[ollster]

disabling their vehicle could be putting someone at risk (medical aid etc...), toilet flower just insults the senses...
But I spose one can't be 100% sure of the car... I'm too shy to do it really just an evil thought I guess.
Seemed like poetic justice in my head -

RE: The dogs thing. Letting dogs drink or otherwise interact with the same small ponds and soaks as people have to drink from, and bathing your own genitals and anus in the water too, is also putting lives at risk. Especially since the temps were a scorching 38/35 degrees for the two days we were in the same area as them. Gastro + 38 degrees = recipe for disaster. Fortunately it didn't happen.

The more I think about it the more angry I get... RRRAAAWRRRRRR.

[Josh]

I heard you need 250 plane jumps before you start baseing. I cant imagine guys are doing anymore then a tenth of that. How many solo jumps from a plane did you do before you started baseing? Im curious but no way can i afford it money wise. I like kiteing so i plan on doing paraglideing and a bit of skydiveing to help me be more aerialy aware cant bring myself to do gymnastics tho apparently thats way to go.

I personally had done about 250-300 skydives (all solo, tandems don't count!) before I started BASE. That included a lot of specific exercises and mentoring that geared the jumps towards preparing me for BASE. All the guys I jump with had at least a couple hundred skydives before they started too, and many of them had/have done thousands of skydives. I was chatting to one guy over the weekend about his impending first BASE jumps, and he has done over 20,000 skydives! It's really a case of not knowing what you don't know until you have done a couple hundred jumps, then at least you can make an informed decision about whether you a ready or not!, and everyone progresses at a different rate. Some (IMO, most) people will never have the necessary skills, experience or sound judgement to jump in an acceptably safe way.. and sure, folks have started BASE with far less (or even no) skydiving experience, but no sensible person would recommend it. Read this is you need convincing: http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/wiki ... ality_List

[Kozzie]

oh i dont need convincing i just need $$ cheapest way i could find commercially was to go for a ticket to go solo which is a heap maybe 12 low height jumps i think only 10k feet in a 7 day period but even that was still pretty expensive least it was when i was looking into it 6 years ago. how much does it cost you personally now to do a 14k jump with all your own equipment? and is it as simple as multiplying it by 250? i just cant fathom that people have spent so much to get so many jumps. i got a mate that really got hooked on it but he pretty much had to change his whole life for it which was odd still jealous tho hahaha