Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.

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Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.
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Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 6:17 pm

stepbystep wrote:
corvus wrote:
stepbystep wrote:Oops, Sulphur leaking from a tailings dam into the Savage River, danger to health of the river and marine life.

Just as well as there is only one mine there and it has an 'award winning' record for environmental management.....

Can't wait for more mines, won't that be great for jobs :roll:


So one leak is a disaster :roll: what do you propose sbs close it down ??
corvus


Did I use the word disaster corvus? No need to be alarmist, someone might lose their job!


Implication sbs implication with perhaps a greenish tinge eh!!
corvus

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 6:56 pm

corvus wrote:Implication sbs implication with perhaps a greenish tinge eh!!
corvus



What about the implications for what's left of life in the Savage River corvus??

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 7:13 pm

stepbystep wrote:
corvus wrote:Implication sbs implication with perhaps a greenish tinge eh!!
corvus



What about the implications for what's left of life in the Savage River corvus??


Wow one spill and the river is stuffed :?: :?: nice flow of water in the Savage which will increase this weekend I believe why do you always need to take the anti job angle yet sook about other job losses :?:
corvus

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 7:42 pm

corvus wrote:
stepbystep wrote:
corvus wrote:Implication sbs implication with perhaps a greenish tinge eh!!
corvus



What about the implications for what's left of life in the Savage River corvus??


Wow one spill and the river is stuffed :?: :?: nice flow of water in the Savage which will increase this weekend I believe why do you always need to take the anti job angle yet sook about other job losses :?:
corvus


lol, I'm being sarcastic corvus.
Name one post where I have 'sooked' about job losses, I can point to plenty where the likes of you have pointed to 'future job gains' to justify more mining in the region.
Where did I say it's "stuffed"? Your language is becoming more and more alarmist. Check out what sulphur can do to a river system and then comment perhaps..??
:)

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 8:25 pm

sbs,
Just one accidental mistake and you go on the attack as per typical greenish tactics !! the Savage River is dead :?: :roll: .
cotvus

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 8:39 pm

Disaster? Stuffed? Dead?
Your words not mine.
Are you in possession of a crystal ball?

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 15 Mar, 2013 8:58 pm

Closing it down wouldn't help. The tailings dam is already there and has to be managed for YEARS with or without an active mine.

Multiply this ongoing and regular issue by the number of mines allowed into ecologically sensitive areas.

Repeat history, never learn from it.

Re: Tarkine mining

Sat 16 Mar, 2013 6:11 am

corvus wrote:cotvus




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Tarkine mining

Sat 16 Mar, 2013 12:10 pm

photohiker wrote:Closing it down wouldn't help. The tailings dam is already there and has to be managed for YEARS with or without an active mine.

Multiply this ongoing and regular issue by the number of mines allowed into ecologically sensitive areas.

Repeat history, never learn from it.


That was exactly my thought when I read about the spill - the mines may be relatively ok when nothing goes wrong, just like nuclear power stations...

And as for jobs, what is it with this state? Started on the OT last Friday and the carpark at the Cradle visitor centre was chockablock full. People want to see our wild places, so why not keep them wild and develop them sensitively as tourist destinations. Although I realise we have trashed rather a lot of them already and stuffed that idea a bit, think NE - Victoria/Albert area which was once stunning, as well as down around Lake Pedder. Tourism is sustainable though, mining and logging is short term.

Re: Tarkine mining

Sat 16 Mar, 2013 5:37 pm

I remember many years ago hiring a tinny and rowing up the Pieman from Corinna. Would it have been the Whyte River? It reeked of sulphur.
The King is still trying hard to recover.
It's inevitable that one day some mine will have an accidental spill. Changing climatic conditions, flash flooding. All signs of the times.
People that travel the better, remote, untouched etc often are greatly touched by the beauty of our natural world and then look about at the concoctions we make of the 'developed' world and wonder.
Do that enough and it sort of clings to the soul.
I do and I imagine the likes of SBS and others also.
We can argue things do recover. But when one looks around it is often a superficial recovery. Scratch the surface and things take on a different appearance.
We do need people gainfully employed. Justifying ventures on those grounds doesn't to me justify the venture.
Tasmanians bemoan our brain drain. I wonder how many go because we don't offer encouragement and support to these people to extend us beyond our traditional ways of life and propel us into the future?

Re: Tarkine mining

Sat 16 Mar, 2013 5:56 pm

ILUVSWTAS wrote:
corvus wrote:cotvus




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Glad my typo gave you so much mirth :) must have been that last glass of wine that confused a t for an r :roll:
corvus

Re: Tarkine mining

Sat 16 Mar, 2013 8:04 pm

It's great people can comment here regarding the latest problems at Savage River. For some reason the Mercury and The Advocate haven't allowed on line comment.

Re: Tarkine mining

Sat 16 Mar, 2013 8:27 pm

taswegian wrote:I remember many years ago hiring a tinny and rowing up the Pieman from Corinna. Would it have been the Whyte River? It reeked of sulphur.
The King is still trying hard to recover.
It's inevitable that one day some mine will have an accidental spill. Changing climatic conditions, flash flooding. All signs of the times.
People that travel the better, remote, untouched etc often are greatly touched by the beauty of our natural world and then look about at the concoctions we make of the 'developed' world and wonder.
Do that enough and it sort of clings to the soul.
I do and I imagine the likes of SBS and others also.
We can argue things do recover. But when one looks around it is often a superficial recovery. Scratch the surface and things take on a different appearance.
We do need people gainfully employed. Justifying ventures on those grounds doesn't to me justify the venture.
Tasmanians bemoan our brain drain. I wonder how many go because we don't offer encouragement and support to these people to extend us beyond our traditional ways of life and propel us into the future?

Nice post Tasweigan. My thoughts exactly, but expressed better than I can.

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 6:18 am

(not a response to the previous few posts, just been checking out a few google grabs on this)

.. expecting (from the initial 'news'grab) no good news :roll: I found the EPA response here interesting:

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 ... -news.html

who do you choose to believe?

Is some insight from here food for thought (?):

http://www.tasmanianmining.com.au/minin ... nvironment

(not saying such mistakes are acceptable mind.. not at all.. but it did just take a few minutes to at least suspect.. all may not be completely 'brown')

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 5:38 pm

EPA = toothless and ineffective tiger. Mining Industry spin, meh!

They have had to improve their business model because they came from such a disgustingly low base. No doubt the methods are better, but they are not infallible.

One mine can kill a river, and it has.

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 8:00 pm

Nuts wrote:(not a response to the previous few posts, just been checking out a few google grabs on this)

.. expecting (from the initial 'news'grab) no good news :roll: I found the EPA response here interesting:

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 ... -news.html

who do you choose to believe?

Is some insight from here food for thought (?):

http://www.tasmanianmining.com.au/minin ... nvironment

(not saying such mistakes are acceptable mind.. not at all.. but it did just take a few minutes to at least suspect.. all may not be completely 'brown')

I agree Nuts.
I think it is time for people that self identify as 'Greens' to recognize that the Green movement has made a huge contribution to raising environmental awareness to the point that it is common place in considerations in all future planning. They now need to move towards enabling thinking, and contribute to making Tasmania a uniquely sustainable state. We are not currently sustainable. We are to the mainland like the irresponsible ideological teenager that is still at home at 25 putting their hand out for an allowance.
Tasmania can be sustainable in our own unique way, without losing our identity.
Becoming sustainable needs more than lazy thinking and holding up placards that say 'No Mining'.
Some people have expressed the opinion that because mining creates jobs, it does not give reason to do it.
Equally, because mining is not sustainable is not a reason (on it's own) not to do it, human nature is NOT like that.
The 'Greens', whilst they have a lot to listen to, have a narrow focus in their thinking, don't give adequate weight to human nature in any solution (which should be considered THE main barrier to any solution), and should actively search for views from different perspectives (such as you linked to) if they wish to retain any credibility in the search for solutions.
What's the saying - you can't get an ought from an is. (because of human nature).
Just in case it's not already obvious - IMO.

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 8:02 pm

stepbystep wrote:EPA = toothless and ineffective tiger. Mining Industry spin, meh!

They have had to improve their business model because they came from such a disgustingly low base. No doubt the methods are better, but they are not infallible.

One mine can kill a river, and it has.


Your cognitive bias is showing SBS. :D

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 8:37 pm

stepbystep wrote:[q








Name one post where I have 'sooked' about job losses, I can point to plenty where the likes of you have pointed to 'future job gains' to justify more mining in the region.
Where did I say it's "stuffed"? Your language is becoming more and more alarmist. Check out what sulphur can do to a river system and then comment perhaps..??
:)
stepbystep wrote:All good and well, however I'm most certainly in the 10% that could benefit most greatly from an expanded private sector, including an expanded mining industry. As a small business owner I get zero government incentive packages or tax concessions(unlike mining and forestry), I struggle to employ others due to regulatory red tape imposed on me by the government thus making it very difficult for me to expand my business which I most certainly would given some incentives.

No-one sees my potential as an employer as important or that of many of my colleagues in the same industry. My industry gets scant funding or attention from the powers that be and it is left languishing as an also ran where it has infinite potential for expansion. Talented young technicians, writers and artists that could be employed in my sector disappear to the mainland because of the lack of opportunity people like myself could give them IF we were given some of the attention afforded to the traditional industries like mining, fishing, agriculture and fishing.

And therin lies my point, constantly our attention is being drawn to these sectors when for example 'The Arts' as an industry is one of Tasmanias best performers. How much time do we get on the floor of parliament?



A bit of a sook in this post I believe.
corvus

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 10:38 pm

geoskid wrote:
stepbystep wrote:EPA = toothless and ineffective tiger. Mining Industry spin, meh!

They have had to improve their business model because they came from such a disgustingly low base. No doubt the methods are better, but they are not infallible.

One mine can kill a river, and it has.


Your cognitive bias is showing SBS. :D

Oh damn and here was I trying to be impartial and all that ;)

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 10:43 pm

corvus wrote:
stepbystep wrote:[q








Name one post where I have 'sooked' about job losses, I can point to plenty where the likes of you have pointed to 'future job gains' to justify more mining in the region.
Where did I say it's "stuffed"? Your language is becoming more and more alarmist. Check out what sulphur can do to a river system and then comment perhaps..??
:)
stepbystep wrote:All good and well, however I'm most certainly in the 10% that could benefit most greatly from an expanded private sector, including an expanded mining industry. As a small business owner I get zero government incentive packages or tax concessions(unlike mining and forestry), I struggle to employ others due to regulatory red tape imposed on me by the government thus making it very difficult for me to expand my business which I most certainly would given some incentives.

No-one sees my potential as an employer as important or that of many of my colleagues in the same industry. My industry gets scant funding or attention from the powers that be and it is left languishing as an also ran where it has infinite potential for expansion. Talented young technicians, writers and artists that could be employed in my sector disappear to the mainland because of the lack of opportunity people like myself could give them IF we were given some of the attention afforded to the traditional industries like mining, fishing, agriculture and fishing.

And therin lies my point, constantly our attention is being drawn to these sectors when for example 'The Arts' as an industry is one of Tasmanias best performers. How much time do we get on the floor of parliament?



A bit of a sook in this post I believe.
corvus

Yes you are so right Corvus far be it from me to expect a level playing field in the business world. Subsidise the rich etc etc :'( just as well the likes of you are on their side!

Re: Tarkine mining

Sun 17 Mar, 2013 11:51 pm

stepbystep wrote:Yes you are so right Corvus far be it from me to expect a level playing field in the business world...


Yes, silly of you sbs, fancy expecting a level playing field in the business world? Might as well expect logical, fair, sensible behaviour from government, or balanced, unbiased, objective thinking from the general population. :roll:

Re: Tarkine mining

Mon 18 Mar, 2013 8:44 am

stepbystep wrote:Oops, Sulphur leaking from a tailings dam into the Savage River, danger to health of the river and marine life.

Just as well as there is only one mine there and it has an 'award winning' record for environmental management.....

Can't wait for more mines, won't that be great for jobs :roll:


They probably got their "award" because they report incidents instead of trying to put them under the rug. That's already an achievement for a mine...

Re: Tarkine mining

Mon 18 Mar, 2013 5:03 pm

Well, I read that they got the award for innovation in their efforts to clean up the river..

Toothless like lofty green impositions sbs, if only the mineral deposit was found in an industrial city suburb... but it wasn't.
People like Tony might be misguided, quoting spin. Corrupt? Nah, the truth probably isn't rosey but at the same time I doubt it's all evil. I imagine Tony (with 'a career in science and 15yrs with the mine') disappointed rather than nonplussed.

Re: Tarkine mining

Thu 21 Mar, 2013 9:21 am

article about the Savage River spill. doesn't look good to me.

http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?%2F ... correct%2F

Re: Tarkine mining

Thu 21 Mar, 2013 9:49 pm

Wow, that's scary :(

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 22 Mar, 2013 6:23 am

Taurë-rana wrote:Wow, that's scary :(

Looks criminal to me or maybe lefty spin? I'm sure the Alex Schapp wasn't lying, I mean why would he!!??

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 22 Mar, 2013 9:38 am

In the interests of other readers, afterall we are relying on the vagaries of media, this is Schaaps statement, this seems to agree with the pics? :?

"This water may be carrying tailings with it into a creek system, which discharges into the Savage River, and so it is possible that tailings may find their way into Savage River and some discolouration may become evident," he said.

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 22 Mar, 2013 12:07 pm

He also said this;

"This may present a risk to local aquatic ecology in the longer term if sediment is deposited in the river in large enough quantities and becomes acidic," he said.

And Grange resources had this to say

"It has the potential to be acid-forming but we have contained it on the creek system on our site and there is no discharge into the Savage River," he said. :?

Is 2-3 metres river rise in the Savage overnight large enough? Somehow I don't trust either of these 'people' to give me an accurate assessment.

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 22 Mar, 2013 1:48 pm

Well especially when they say "may" so many times, whereas just asking around or investigating down river would have given them a definitive answer...

Re: Tarkine mining

Fri 22 Mar, 2013 8:14 pm

Hallu wrote:Well especially when they say "may" so many times, whereas just asking around or investigating down river would have given them a definitive answer...


You are a scientist Hallu. Surely you know that the word "may" is better than F@#k ^ff when you are at the beginning of a serious investigation to determine a definitive answer to a cause and effect question. Oui?
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