Up New River to Federation

[ILUVSWTAS]

What would he be doing out there? Crickey! Some people! I bet he was a Victorian.....
Although there is a track thru to PB it's not exactly a "track"

[PeterJ]

I bet he was a Victorian.....

From Huonville Tasmania; had very little bushwalking experience.

[Nuts]

The thing I don't get... Some people here keep drumming the points about would they have gone that far if they didn't have a beacon, or that they were told they were too inexperienced and went anyway.
Both these are facts, are you waiting for someone to say Yes, you are right, I agree with what you are saying?
So why drum this discussion so strongly and repetetetetively?

Yer, I dont know, I guess those parts of the topic are 'repetitive', hadnt noticed. Anyhow;

To me, a beacon (of any description) in the hands of someone who wouldnt feel safe attempting the same route without one is the single most important aspect of this and similar situations. I dont need agreement, couldn't give a rats! Ignore at will!
If someone doesn't get That or why some would feel it necessary to drum at this point (among the many more negative aspects of this topic) then perhaps they have the experience already(or never will) dont need telling (or cant be told) (or should just not read any further...)

Sorry, but: 'Take a beacon, use it' is a simplistic cover all statement that just (to me) seems meaningless at passing on the weight of any experience. He took one, he used it!! How is that an important summary?

So, how to move on? hmmm.... how about discussing the lack of experience that led to the dilemma? the limitations of plb's V experience?..

To lock the topic just because someone may find offence (and probably not dave, he seems to be taking it in his stride (so who)) would appear to take personal opinion to its limit.

[Dave Bremers]

how to move on? we have discussed both PLBs and their implications for hikes, and the experience. perhaps we should "move on" to page 4. gah.

[tomberli]

The only thing I still would like to see is photos of the trip. Apart from that it does appear like the same 5 comments re-appear constantly in slightly different wording

[Drifting]

Yeah- photos would be good.

I must admit to serious interest in this topic. Sorry- I came across it late, but atleast I missed the sniping!

So honestly Brem, tell us, what did you learn? NO SHAME, you hear?

Also, how did you guys come up with the decision to bail- democratically, or did one person decide for the group?

What were the biggest challenges you faced? We know about the rising water, shortage of supplies and an uncharted chasm, but what else hampered your trip? Would you have made it if you had been able to cross the chasm?

How did you guys deal with the doubts you must have had earlier in the trip?

Have your mothers kicked your butts? Wives/girlfriends?

What are you going to do for your next challenge? Have you given it thought yet? Are you going to go as a team again?

[Nuts]

Photo's of the area would be good (I'd imagine they were too busy 'surviving'...)
Perhaps it went off the rails a bit with the discussion about the responders risk but there has been other good info come up. I have my own interest in (especially) what the emergency services guys can add to the discussion about these situations in general. It's probably for another topic.

[ILUVSWTAS]

What were the biggest challenges you faced? We know about the rising water, shortage of supplies and an uncharted chasm, but what else hampered your trip? Would you have made it if you had been able to cross the chasm?

Well I thought it was made clear that the "uncharted chasm"was in fact clearly marked on the maps (according to our local expert Jmac) and the shortage of supplies?? didnt they have over 10 days food left?? I dont see how this is a shortage. With careful provisioning this could have lasted them up to 14-18days, Clearly enough to keep going, or over to bobs, or even (and more wisely) to just stay put for a day or 2, regain some strength, wait for this swollen river to drop (as ALL with SW off track experience know the rivers do) then retreat the way they came!!!!!!!!

[Drifting]

I read all of that ILUVSWTAS- I was interested in the other stuff. Also, from my reading, it would appear that they ran out of water in a place where none was available, and two days from the nearest source, which sort of eliminates staying put and regaining strength. But I really wasn't interested in rehashing where things went wrong- I was asking about what they picked up from the trip.

[ILUVSWTAS]

They were following a river. I simply do not believe they "ran out of water" It was flooded remember. There would have been water somewhere, they obviously didnt have the skills to find it.

[Drifting]

My understanding is that they headed away from the river, as they couldn't proceed further along that way, and two days from the river is where they called for help. Anyhow, what does it matter? It still doesn't answer my questions.

[Dave Bremers]

Yeah- photos would be good.

I must admit to serious interest in this topic. Sorry- I came across it late, but atleast I missed the sniping!

So honestly Brem, tell us, what did you learn? NO SHAME, you hear?

Also, how did you guys come up with the decision to bail- democratically, or did one person decide for the group?

What were the biggest challenges you faced? We know about the rising water, shortage of supplies and an uncharted chasm, but what else hampered your trip? Would you have made it if you had been able to cross the chasm?

How did you guys deal with the doubts you must have had earlier in the trip?

Have your mothers kicked your butts? Wives/girlfriends?

What are you going to do for your next challenge? Have you given it thought yet? Are you going to go as a team again?

1. Lots of things. I can send you the trip report if you want, PM me with your email.
2. Democratically - 3-0.
3. We did make it through the chasm, getting back was a bigger issue with an extra metre of water in it. Biggest challenges - walking in the flooded river, finding somewhere to camp significantly above the waterline. Uncharted chasm was a bit of a shock but was surmountable. The biggest challenge was getting out as far as we did. ILUVSWTAS if you read Jmac's postr again you will see he specifically said he didn't check the GE coords of the chasm, and just assumed. I can tell you it definitely wasn't New River Gorge as he claimed. I have PMed him about this.
4. The route was hard, the challenge of the uinknown was the biggest uncertainty. You can't really deal with that until you've been there.
5. They were very happy that we made the right decision.
6. I'll be back.

[Drifting]

Cool- thanks Brem. I did PM you my email yesterday, but I'll send it again.

[jmac]

Sorry Dave, I never did get around to checking that location. I don't think it's particularly relevant now, but it was the start of the Gibraltar Gorge that I suspected it might be, not the longer New River Gorge upstream. I'm off tonight to paddle the New River again for the third time, dropping in via the Salisbury this time with Matt Brain, if all goes well. Not looking forward to carrying boats along the Southern Ranges. I'll post a note of our success or failure upon return. SPOT progress check if you want to see how we go: Visit Matt's website http://www.irenabyss.com.au and click on WHERE IS MATT on the menu bar. Should be transmitting by tomorrow.

Plan looks something like this:

0 Fri: Drive south.
1 Sat: Do car shuffle with mountain bike. Carry loads along Southern Range track at least as far as Pigsty Ponds, maybe to Ooze Lake.
2 Sun: Continue west beyond Mt. Wylie. Leave track and camp at foot of Mt. Victoria Cross.
3 Mon: Traverse Mt. Victoria Cross towards Bewsher Saddle. Leave rucsacs for ascent of Mt. Bisdee. Return to rucsacs, bash down to Salisbury River, push downstream towards Vanishing Falls.
4 Tues: Reach Vanishing Falls. Photograph it. Move downstream.
5 Wed: Complete descent of Salisbury River to New River. Camp at New River Lagoon.
6 Thurs: Climb Precipitous Bluff.
7 Fri: Traverse Southern Ranges back to Mt. La Perouse area.
8 Sat: Traverse from Mt. La Perouse to Mt. Leillateah. Descend southern flank of Mt. Leillateah to camp at Catamaran River (approx 832788)
9 Sun: Descend Catamaran River to Cockle Creek Road. Drive home.

Yeah we've got chicken chutes planned if we need 'em!

If moderators feel this post strays too far from the New River thread, please delete.

Cheers,

John.

[Dave Bremers]

What were the biggest challenges you faced? We know about the rising water, shortage of supplies and an uncharted chasm, but what else hampered your trip? Would you have made it if you had been able to cross the chasm?

Well I thought it was made clear that the "uncharted chasm"was in fact clearly marked on the maps (according to our local expert Jmac) and the shortage of supplies?? didnt they have over 10 days food left?? I dont see how this is a shortage. With careful provisioning this could have lasted them up to 14-18days, Clearly enough to keep going, or over to bobs, or even (and more wisely) to just stay put for a day or 2, regain some strength, wait for this swollen river to drop (as ALL with SW off track experience know the rivers do) then retreat the way they came!!!!!!!!

sigh... all this has been covered, and you were posting then too. so what's your excuse for repeating quashed arguments? Your willingness to preach with patronising generalisations, misrepresented/misquoted facts and in spite of repeated corrections is a real impediment to this topic and forum. I've got to say, looking at it through my eyes (ie ones that were there) your arguments are hilarious. Thanks for brightening my day.

[stu]

Good luck on the La Perouse - Leillateah leg John.
A group of us did it from the road near the bridge over the D'Entrecasteaux River a month or so back.
We decided to do a loop walk rather than follow our inward leg back out, resulting in a 15 hour day walk (should only have been 12 or so following the same route back out). A great little peak with good views of The Hippo etc.
Also just got back from 8 days in the Stn ranges so got the reverse perspective of that same view.
The connecting ridge to Leillateah looks pretty horrible (wiry scrub), but I'm sure you're used to this terrain.
Also, be sure to double boil water at Leaning Tea Tree saddle if you stay there - see topic 'Dogs in the Sthn Ranges...' by ollster, I was one of his horrified party to be greeted at the saddle by the alien barking of dogs Not happy...

Good luck, sounds like a great trip.

Stu.

[jmac]

Thanks for those notes Stu, and the luck. Yeah, we'll see about the Leillateah traverse. It's sometimes hard to get inspired about that bit extra at the end of a hard trip, but Matt's a pretty strong operator in the scrub. If he decides to bash it, I'll follow! We don't know how the Catamaran River will go either. Probably choked and difficult. Maybe we'll be plodding home on the SCT by then.

Cheers,

John

[PeterJ]

.....The connecting ridge to Leillateah looks pretty horrible (wiry scrub), but I'm sure you're used to this terrain....

Some friends did it some years ago and it took them a heck of a lot longer than expected. Their description was sufficient to deter me from ever trying it that way.

[Drifting]

"Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves." Henry David Thoreau

I don't condone getting lost, but I respect the knowledge that can come from it. I suppose stranded in the bush is somewhat similar to getting lost. Certainly in a metaphysical sense.

[ILUVSWTAS]

What were the biggest challenges you faced? We know about the rising water, shortage of supplies and an uncharted chasm, but what else hampered your trip? Would you have made it if you had been able to cross the chasm?

Well I thought it was made clear that the "uncharted chasm"was in fact clearly marked on the maps (according to our local expert Jmac) and the shortage of supplies?? didnt they have over 10 days food left?? I dont see how this is a shortage. With careful provisioning this could have lasted them up to 14-18days, Clearly enough to keep going, or over to bobs, or even (and more wisely) to just stay put for a day or 2, regain some strength, wait for this swollen river to drop (as ALL with SW off track experience know the rivers do) then retreat the way they came!!!!!!!!

sigh... all this has been covered, and you were posting then too. so what's your excuse for repeating quashed arguments? Your willingness to preach with patronising generalisations, misrepresented/misquoted facts and in spite of repeated corrections is a real impediment to this topic and forum. I've got to say, looking at it through my eyes (ie ones that were there) your arguments are hilarious. Thanks for brightening my day.

Im repeating these questions because you have not given a reasonable or believable description of why you bailed without attempting self rescue.

[tasadam]

Im repeating these questions because you have not given a reasonable or believable description of why you bailed without attempting self rescue.

Did you email him requesting the trip report? Have you read it?

You seem to continually overlook the fact that they were two days from the river when they were rescued, and out of water that they could find.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yeh but it doesnt make sense, there is no logic to any of it!
Anyway im over the whole thing, if they want to try it again let them!! when they are rescued (again) maybe this time we'll build a statue to honour them!!

[Dave Bremers]

Yeh but it doesnt make sense, there is no logic to any of it!

Just so everyone knows, I have not at any time sent ILUVSWTAS a copy of the trip report.

when they are rescued (again) maybe this time we'll build a statue to honour them!!

A statue on top of Federation after we succeed will be fine, thanks for so kindly offering.

[Son of a Beach]

This topic has now been locked (much to my regret) due to the ongoing 'banter' which is frequently either off-topic or offensive (I've had to delete quite a number of posts over the last few days).

Sorry to all for the inconvenience, and thanks to those who've posted some exceptionally good information to this topic.

[tasadam]

Nik and I (with our forum moderator hats firmly on at the moment) are somewhat displeased by the conduct of several members in this particular topic. Much of the reason why the topic was locked was due to inappropriate or unwarranted input. The intentions of Nik and I were to keep this topic open, but to try and keep people within forum rules all we could do was threaten the risk of seeing this topic locked. It was never intended to actually lock the topic.
Because of recent input from new members, it was fairly evident that something constructive / new / sensible comes along in this topic from time to time. Unfortunately though, it was quickly turned into a bantering argument that is not wanted here on this forum. Finally, Nik grew tired of trying to keep it within the rules, and locked the topic.

You know who you are and whether this is directed at you, you should be aware that this topic saw several members about as close as they could have come to getting an official warning or temporary ban on the forum.
Such action was more than justifiable for some. However, we procrastinate such action, we also want to keep things polite and friendly. Check the rules, be mindful when you post that this is not like any old forum where bickering and insults are the norm. It's supposed to be a nice place. It's up to all of us to keep it a nice place.

Future rule breaches will without doubt see action such as warnings and banning. It shouldn't need such action to get people to adhere to "friendly, polite". If moderation of a topic is required in future because of similar reasons, you can expect such action.

All that aside, we welcome everyone's contribution on this forum, all that we ask is that such contribution is within site rules. It shouldn't be that difficult.