Tarkine mining

[north-north-west]

"Load it on a Jumbo,
Send it overseas
Got a lot of money
Now, who needs trees . . . ?"

Plus ca change

[corvus]

From What I have read the Mine will be in a Ti Tree type scrub area well away from any area that we would walk in.
corvus

[north-north-west]

Out of sight, out of mind, eh?

It's not about whether we'll see it, it's about the overall damage that will be done to the area and to some very fragile ecosystems, for a short term advantage. Somewhere we have to draw a line and say that we've stuffed things up enough and it's time to stop, or there will be nothing left.

[corvus]

Rebecca Lagoon is along the coastal strip, yes inland from the beach but not far. At least some of that coastal strip is being "protected" but the Tarkine covers a vastly larger area than that. It is the inland areas that are also in danger from mining, and if they are damaged the flow-on is enormous.

Please consider the entire impact of open cut mining - its not just the hole in the ground or the roads to get there, it's the overburden dumps and the tailings dumps, it's the clearing of areas to construct the infrastructure to manage the machinery, it's the impact on water tables and water flow, it's the dust that clogs everything and settles on all vegetation over large areas and muddies streams and rivers, it's the every little action taken to build and run a mine that has an impact. Have a look at an open cut mine site in operation and assess the damage to the surrounding areas, overlay that on the Tarkine and you have a better picture.

The land doesn't recover to its original state once the hole is filled in. It is frequently useless for any other purpose and far from pretty, despite any "rehabilitation" requirements.

And all that for a comparatively few short term jobs for an ever increasing population that can't be supported with respect for the rest of a living planet?

And I have seen and lived around open cut mines and worked on "rehabilitated"tailings dumps.

G'day gayet,
Nice to see you are fully employed in a non manual occupation (punching keys don't count) a couple of things you mention intrigue me, one dust in Tasmanian open cut Mines ?? and how long did you live near the open cut to establish that it did not rehabilitate and JOBS are really important in this area long or short term (when did SRM open ??) as I said previously pontification is easy when you are in a secure job
corvus

[Nuts]

Thks for the pics sbs, leech ridden swamp then? lol, no, Iv'e been down that way but i'm sure there's more going on than the view but I don't know enough abt the area or the project.

[corvus]

Out of sight, out of mind, eh?

It's not about whether we'll see it, it's about the overall damage that will be done to the area and to some very fragile ecosystems, for a short term advantage. Somewhere we have to draw a line and say that we've stuffed things up enough and it's time to stop, or there will be nothing left.

G'day NNW,
What evidence do you have that this is in your words has on "some very fragile ecosystems" it has been mined ,grazed and hunted on for 2000 years and the Mine will be in a *&%$#! scrubby area that we would never have ventured into well controlled in its emissions IMHO.
corvus

[stepbystep]

Hey Nuts
I'm heading up again soon. Trip 5 In the last 8 months

The GOOD news is the 200m coastal strip has received heritage listing which gives some level of protection.

The big concern for me is how any mine/s might affect the surrounding area and its ecosystem. The area is also being ripped apart by rednecks in 4WDs and quad bikes so there are multiple threats.

[photohiker]

The GOOD news is the 200m coastal strip has received heritage listing which gives some level of protection.

The big concern for me is how any mine/s might affect the surrounding area and its ecosystem. The area is also being ripped apart by rednecks in 4WDs and quad bikes so there are multiple threats.

+1 Exactly how I'm thinking.

This is not about 'just' one mine.

[gayet]

G'day gayet,
Nice to see you are fully employed in a non manual occupation (punching keys don't count) a couple of things you mention intrigue me, one dust in Tasmanian open cut Mines ?? and how long did you live near the open cut to establish that it did not rehabilitate and JOBS are really important in this area long or short term (when did SRM open ??) as I said previously pontification is easy when you are in a secure job
corvus

I might be a fixed term contract key puncher now (nothing secure about that) but I lived in an open cut mine area for 18 yrs where mining has now been in operation for well over 50 yrs. That area had been high quality, very productive agricultural land. It is now low yeild, poor quality dirt. I worked in the field (in a manual labour role involving soil science) at, on and in a "rehabilitated" tailings dump for several months over several years and there is no way that land will ever be able to be used for anything, it can't even grow weeds. Dust - remove the vegetation so the workers can operate with clear field of vision, disrupt the natural wind breaks and create great heaps of disturbed drying soils and you get dust. Spray the heaps with water and you get impacts on the water table and water flows where you take the water and run off with whatever from the heaps. JOBS may be important, but more importance should be placed on the long term health of an area, rather than a short term exploitation with long term damage. The mines being proposed are short term ventures , 10 - 15 years, 20 tops I believe. Good investment for the mining company, poor investment for the environment. Develop JOBS elsewhere. You may withdraw the eye roll now.

[Nuts]

Hey Nuts
I'm heading up again soon.

You best be dropping in some time then

[corvus]

G'day gayet,
Nice to see you are fully employed in a non manual occupation (punching keys don't count) a couple of things you mention intrigue me, one dust in Tasmanian open cut Mines ?? and how long did you live near the open cut to establish that it did not rehabilitate and JOBS are really important in this area long or short term (when did SRM open ??) as I said previously pontification is easy when you are in a secure job
corvus

I might be a fixed term contract key puncher now (nothing secure about that) but I lived in an open cut mine area for 18 yrs where mining has now been in operation for well over 50 yrs. That area had been high quality, very productive agricultural land. It is now low yeild, poor quality dirt. I worked in the field (in a manual labour role involving soil science) at, on and in a "rehabilitated" tailings dump for several months over several years and there is no way that land will ever be able to be used for anything, it can't even grow weeds. Dust - remove the vegetation so the workers can operate with clear field of vision, disrupt the natural wind breaks and create great heaps of disturbed drying soils and you get dust. Spray the heaps with water and you get impacts on the water table and water flows where you take the water and run off with whatever from the heaps. JOBS may be important, but more importance should be placed on the long term health of an area, rather than a short term exploitation with long term damage. The mines being proposed are short term ventures , 10 - 15 years, 20 tops I believe. Good investment for the mining company, poor investment for the environment. Develop JOBS elsewhere. You may withdraw the eye roll now.

G'day gayet,
I will keep the eye roll as you are commenting on an non Tasmanian area and to the best of my memory the Savage River Mine has been operational for around 40 years in very much non agricultural land ,just like this new proposed mine and shees I bet the operators in this area would welcome weather that would be conducive to dust and when the mine is exhausted back to "wilderness" eh !!
corvus

[Hallu]

Back to wilderness ? Have you seen what Queenstown and its surroundings look like ? *&%$#! dead city with a barren landscape, thanks to mining... I'd rather have my children looking for another job outside of Tasmania than staying there and becoming a miner... There aren't many wildernesses left in the world, just leave them the *&%$#! alone. Besides, part of the reason why the Tarkine area lack tourism is because it's not protected : no National Park status means people don't hear about it, and guys like J. Chapman or T. Thomas refusing to publish walks in the area to "protect it" have the wrong attitude, people need to know about it, to experience it, so they'll care about it. Tasmania isn't a third world country that has no choice but to exploit its resources, like Asian countries farming palm trees for their oil, it's part of a freaking rich country that could very well keep its poorest state afloat with clever programs, but no, it's easier to just carve a hole in the middle of a 200 million year old wilderness... Given the choice, I'm sure our children wouldn't want to be the pathetic excuse for destroying that wilderness...

[farefam]

I no longer live in Tasmania (but did on and off over 20 years) and at one stage I worked on the West Coast at the Rosebery and Renison Bell mines for 8.5 years. During that time I also lobbied (successfully) for the creation of the nearby Mt Murchison, Tyndall Range, Dundas and Mt Lindsay reserves. I remain rather sad that Reynolds Falls is still not included in the adjacent Cradle Mt NP (albeit at least it now has a small reserve around it). I have walked very extensively in Tassie, probably more than many of the people who read this excellent forum.

I am not impressed with Tony Burke's decision regarding the Tarkine; particularly his reasoning. Whilst I don't support a lock up everything mentality, I am personally prepared to sacrifice my job prospects when there is a greater public good to be gained. I feel that there are certain areas in the world where mining can happen with minimal impact BUT there are other areas that are so environmentally or culturally valuable that mining should never be allowed. A significant part (but not all) of the Tarkine falls into that latter category in my view.

It is sad now that industrial forestry has been brought back under a reasonable level of control, that a proper large national park hasn't been established in the West Coast (Savage River NP aside). It appears that the cargo cult mentality (formerly hydroindustrialisation, woodchipping, pulp mill and now it seems mining) is still alive in Tassie. We've all seen first hand the failure of the first hydro and woodchipping cargo cults to deliver any permanent prosperity to the state. Mining is by definition, not sustainable. A mine is opened, it runs for a while, it shuts, it may reopen at some later date if the economics improve but eventually at some later stage the minerals are exhausted and once the final site rehabilitation is complete there are no more jobs. The Bendigo gold field (historically the second largest in Australia) is a fairly good example of this.

All mines (open cut and generally to a lesser extent underground) have an impact on the environment. These impacts include acid mine drainage and contamination of waters with metals (which can to a certain degree be remediated by the use of artificial wetlands), the ugly voids created by open pits (only small pits are backfilled; large ones remain a permanent eyesore, even if partly flooded). Roadworks and waste dumps are a by-product of all open cut mines. The larger the pit, the bigger the waste dumps. Theses days, waste dumps are eventually recontoured, covered with soil and rehabilitated but remain a long-term source of acid drainage as any sulphide minerals in the waste decompose. With intelligent design waste dumps can be hidden within the contours of an area to a certain extent to minimise their visual impact. Old tailings dams are a permanent eyesore and at Rosebery they are left covered with a shallow layer of water to stop the tailings from decomposing which would generate acid mine drainage.

With the ever increasing mechanisation and scale of modern mining, any jobs created at a single mine will most likely last a matter of years or decades (not the 100 years plus of Rosebery or Mt Lyell due to the smaller scale of historic mining before the 1970's).

Out of interest (other than Mt Lyell) one of the worst sources of acid mine drainage on the West Coast is the large number of old smaller underground mines in the Hercules to Mt Dundas area. This is because there have been no remediation works carried out on these remote, historical legacies. The rainforest is undamaged, but the Ring River running through it remains strongly acidic many, many decades after the original mining ceased.

Having said all this (hopefully in a balance manner), if any mine/mines is/are developed, it will only affect a fairly small local area. I've little doubt that the Tarkine environment will remain largely intact for the future even if no further conservation reservation is undertaken, as forestry was a much greater threat to the integrity of this area.

[Strider]

Back to wilderness ? Have you seen what Queenstown and its surroundings look like ? *&%$#! dead city with a barren landscape, thanks to mining...

I don't think anyone's proposing going back to woodfired smelters or the burning of gange mineral. Queenstown is a bad example when compared to modern mining.

[MrWalker]

I notice Burke did go and visit the area before making a decision and said it did not look the way it had been claimed. Maybe they overdid it by trying to claim far too large an area, much of which is not high value pristine rainforest. A more realistic claim might have succeeded.

[Hallu]

The thing is, this is indeed a rather small mine in a small area compared to the immensity of the whole Tarkine, but it does jeopardise the Tarkine in its entirety. A NP protecting the whole area is long overdue, as it's the case in Cape York, and decisions like these are not helping... I'm wondering if farefam's views are widespread in Tasmania ? He's got a realistic, balanced view, and these facts and arguments should be made clear to the government. The problem is Tasmania has long been tagged as a confrontation between radical views from greens and industrials, and no middle ground can be found. So guys like Burke are deciding for them... I'm sure that if there were more guys like farefam progress would appear almost immediately. Miners and loggers indeed still love their island with its wilderness, and they sure must be pissed to be used as an excuse by the Labor party to ferment such schemes as the Tarkine mining project in order to have a chance at winning the next elections...

[corvus]

Back to wilderness ? Have you seen what Queenstown and its surroundings look like ? *&%$#! dead city with a barren landscape, thanks to mining... I'd rather have my children looking for another job outside of Tasmania than staying there and becoming a miner... There aren't many wildernesses left in the world, just leave them the *&%$#! alone. Besides, part of the reason why the Tarkine area lack tourism is because it's not protected : no National Park status means people don't hear about it, and guys like J. Chapman or T. Thomas refusing to publish walks in the area to "protect it" have the wrong attitude, people need to know about it, to experience it, so they'll care about it. Tasmania isn't a third world country that has no choice but to exploit its resources, like Asian countries farming palm trees for their oil, it's part of a freaking rich country that could very well keep its poorest state afloat with clever programs, but no, it's easier to just carve a hole in the middle of a 200 million year old wilderness... Given the choice, I'm sure our children wouldn't want to be the pathetic excuse for destroying that wilderness...

G'day Hallu,
As you have sent in a complaint about my post concerning this I have decided to withdraw it
corvus

Last edited by corvus on Thu 21 Feb, 2013 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Strider]

Corvus has a point. The regeneration around Queenie even in the last 10 years is astounding.

[photohiker]

Corvus has a point. The regeneration around Queenie even in the last 10 years is astounding.

Agree with that!

I'm a bit skeptical of Corvus' ongoing requirement that anyone with a job doesn't have an opinion worth listening to.

Well Corvus, I don't have a job, I've been to the Tarkine multiple times recently, and I think the idea of mining in that area stinks.

Mine workers are the drones that take home basic pay while the mine owners reap millions from Australian soil while paying their execs outrageous salaries and send dividends outside the state. We should have higher aspirations for both our upcoming generation and for the land.

[Hallu]

Yeah it's ridiculous to assume every unemployed Tasmanian would gladly take a mining job...

[MrWalker]

Mine workers are the drones that take home basic pay while the mine owners reap millions from Australian soil while paying their execs outrageous salaries and send dividends outside the state. We should have higher aspirations for both our upcoming generation and for the land.

I was going to say that the same could be said for anyone who works in a supermarket, bank, insurance or almost any other industry, when I remembered how much mine workers get paid. I don't think they take home what I would consider "basic pay".

[photohiker]

Mine workers are the drones that take home basic pay while the mine owners reap millions from Australian soil while paying their execs outrageous salaries and send dividends outside the state. We should have higher aspirations for both our upcoming generation and for the land.

I was going to say that the same could be said for anyone who works in a supermarket, bank, insurance or almost any other industry, when I remembered how much mine workers get paid. I don't think they take home what I would consider "basic pay".

You might be surprised. Mining has a reputation for high wages, often because the work is in remote areas. If you search the web for award wages for mining in Tasmania you will find (for instance) the AN170117 – Zinifex Rosebery (Mining) Award at Fairwork Australia and you will find the wages range from $622 to $895 per week. I'm sure this is more than a shelf stacker job at Coles and there surely has been CPI increases since the award was created, but that was not my point. These are not 'bonanza' wages that we hear about in the north of SA or in the West.

Happy to be shown otherwise.

[stepbystep]

I no longer live in Tasmania (but did on and off over 20 years) and at one stage I worked on the West Coast at the Rosebery and Renison Bell mines for 8.5 years. During that time I also lobbied (successfully) for the creation of the nearby Mt Murchison, Tyndall Range, Dundas and Mt Lindsay reserves.

Thankyou!
And an excellent post too.

I hear now they are now expecting a massive amount of exploration license applications, which does of course presumably mean more than 1 mine......

The upside to the decision was a 200m wide coastal strip heritage listing was approved. This basically covers the vast majority of culturally significant sites. It's really just token because they would never get approval to build a port or the like given the vast amount of aboriginal sites in the area. What it may mean is more powers to charge the rednecks that choose to deface the sites.

[Miyata610]

Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke has rejected a bid by conservationists to lock out mining from Tasmania's Tarkine region. Mr Burke has rejected the Australian Heritage Council's advice to list more than 400,000 hectares of the Tarkine on the National Heritage Register.

Firstly, the Australian Heritage Council is part of the government and it consists of experts to properly assess these issues without political interference. It is not a group of "conservationists".

I am particularly disappointed that the minister chose to ignore expert advice, although he is entitled to do so.

Further, some on this forum seem to think that finding temporary menial jobs for the unemployed is justification. As has been pointed out by others, not all unemployed Tasmanians will be qualified to take up any theoretical jobs created or even be interested in doing so. In my not so humble opinion (what a stupid phrase) overriding a recommendation from an expert group for the sake of possible jobs is definitely not justifiable.

[farefam]

Just a few other points regarding mining and exploration in Tassie:

I doubt that there will be a" massive" flood of exploration applications. The media and politicians tend to really beat things up in Tassie, hence my comments about the cargo cult mentality being stubbornly alive and well (the Examiner and the Mercury are particularly guilty of this). A past example that really sticks in my mind was the beat up back in the late 90's or early 2000's for the prospects of a magnesite mine in the Tarkine. This never had any prospect of proceeding, because even one of the world's best magnesite discoveries in Queensland (near surface, no bush cover, cheap coal-fired electricity etc etc) was not able to be developed economically at that time. The silence since then about that Tasmanian magnesite project has been deafening.

Exploration is Tasmania is logistically difficult, slow and quite expensive due to the stringent environmental controls in place and the steep topography and thick bush cover.

Exploration is a risk versus reward proposition. For a given number of exploration leases, the number of discoveries that actually turn out to be economic is a much, much smaller number. Tasmanian discoveries tend to be mainly moderate in size, hard to find, but of high value (such as the base metal ore orebodies at Rosebery or Hellyer or the Henty gold mine. The Arthur lineament has potential to host magnetite iron ore deposits (such as those at Savage River) and some other industrial minerals. Whether any iron ore discoveries were economic would depend on the size and grade as magnetite can require expensive processing to reach exportable grade. The recent cancellation of the mooted magnetite mine near Albany in Western Australia is a case in point. Tin exploration has had a significant increase in the last 10 years. My understanding (don't quote me on this) is that the tin price (which was down in the doldrums during my time) has gone to sustained high levels due to the European Union banning the use of lead in solder.

Any new mine would most likely export via Burnie (as the others do). The wild nature of the West Coast swells pretty much rules out any prospect of constructing a port on that exposed stretch of coastline.

Mining wages/salaries in Tassie are a fair bit higher than average wages, but not drastically so given the conditions involved for underground workers. With few exceptions mining salaries are lower than those in WA, Queensland or overseas. although the gap has closed a fair bit in the last few years due to competition and the increase in 12 hour shifts rather than 9-10 hour days (google the Hays salary survey if you want the facts). I remember when I moved to WA, I stepped down a level in seniority but got paid considerably more than I was on in Tassie. Many professional mining people who live and work in Tassie (most of whom like me were originally from interstate) do so for lifestyle reasons or because the hours tend to be less onerous than in WA. I loved the lifestyle when I lived in Rosebery (Cradle Mountain is only 50 minutes away), but those long, long wet and cold winters became awfully hard to bear and account for much of the staff turnover (the inclement weather is very hard on the wives and children).

Personally I would be totally opposed to any mining activity south of Strahan. The value of retaining that large area as wilderness outweighs all other considerations in my view.

I also feel that us mainlanders should be prepared to subsidise Tassie if further large areas are set aside. After all, if an equivalent proportion of the mainland was reserved it would have a significant effect on Australia's GDP.

[dplanet]

. The area is also being ripped apart by rednecks in 4WDs and quad bikes so there are multiple threats.

Have been there and i walked from Teema to Interview River in late December 2011. It is suggested not to walk/hike it after Xmas when 4WDs and quad bikes started coming in. However, people were friendly and I had a ride back.

[corvus]

Corvus has a point. The regeneration around Queenie even in the last 10 years is astounding.

Agree with that!

I'm a bit skeptical of Corvus' ongoing requirement that anyone with a job doesn't have an opinion worth listening to.

Well Corvus, I don't have a job, I've been to the Tarkine multiple times recently, and I think the idea of mining in that area stinks.

Mine workers are the drones that take home basic pay while the mine owners reap millions from Australian soil while paying their execs outrageous salaries and send dividends outside the state. We should have higher aspirations for both our upcoming generation and for the land.

On the contrary photohiker I believe that we all have opinions to offer it is just my opinion that many critics of mining/forestry being done in Tasmania seem to be in well paid secure jobs in States other than Tasmania.

Not to be a critic but not having a job means what? you having been to been the so called "Tarkine" multiple times recently must have cost plenty ? even prior to retirement I doubt if I could have warranted multiple trips from interstate to a nice but not unique Tasmanian area however to each their own eh!!
If you like this area so much I suggest you put your hand for a job in the new Mine and kill two birds with one stone
corvus

Last edited by corvus on Mon 11 Feb, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[gayet]

Just a few other points regarding mining and exploration in Tassie: ....

I doubt that there will be a" massive" flood of exploration applications. ......... A past example that really sticks in my mind was the beat up back in the late 90's or early 2000's for the prospects of a magnesite mine in the Tarkine. This never had any prospect of proceeding, because even one of the world's best magnesite discoveries in Queensland (near surface, no bush cover, cheap coal-fired electricity etc etc) was not able to be developed economically at that time. The silence since then about that Tasmanian magnesite project has been deafening.

Hardly quiet on the Magnesite mine proposal

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3186504.htm

http://www.bhrplc.com/magnesite.aspx

And that was just at the top of the list. Approval has been given I believe for this to proceed. One concern with magnesite mining in Tas is the unique nature of the karst formations that hold the magnesite ore. It is pretty special, or so I understand.....

Gayet has worked in minesite rehab?,

I didn't work in mine site rehab, I worked on and beside tailings dumps that had been "rehabilitated" and active dumps that were to be rehabilitated. Gravel surveys etc beside rehab, and soil mechanics investigations into the ability to extend the containment walls of a dump vs creating a new dump. I moved interstate again before that investigation was completed.

[stepbystep]

a nice but not unique Tasmanian area.....

All credibility gone Corvus.
The Australian Heritage Commission describes the area as "archaeologically the most significant site in Australia". Not unique? Educate yourself! For the last 6000 years this area was a veritable food bowl with constant habitation. The density of significant sites is higher than any other place in Australia. Not unique???

Phil's observation is spot on IMHO

[maddog]

Tony Burke ( and Corvus) is correct to consider the broader social consequences of Heritage listing. If conservationists do not do likewise, they will loose public support.

The CFMEU cheering Howard was very damaging for Labor.