Windy Ridge - Bert Nichols Hut

[Liamy77]

I havn't been to the new hut yet...
but i guess we're stuck with this one now. That said and moving along this thought path and not burying our heads in sand / ignoring the issue / going elsewhere??? etc how can we minimise the huts' impact?
I notice from the photos at the start of this thread that it looks like a shiny silver shoebox glued to the hillside - can it be adapted to have a camo paint job or a turf roof? - we may not be able to bury it as such but it may be disguisable in a sustainable manner plus if it can structurally sustain the weight a native turf coverage could greatly improve its' insulation?
why are parks building in metal and concrete when there are environmentally sound alternatives???
Whats more why the heck are they paying constuction companies amazing amounts to do this work when i'm sure that there would be enough volunteers to help with other methods such as straw bale in a metal framework (just as an example) - and why/how was the contract won for this project?- can voluntary organisations such as wildcare or community groups compete for these jobs?.
there are instances overseas where walkers have fought for and recieved rights for their walks for example Rights of public access are very important in Britain. If someone has a trail on his property, right-of-way laws require him to keep it open to the public. Even Tony Blair, who has a trail running through the front yard of his country house, isn’t above the laws of public access. this ideology could be extrapolated to how our walking areas are treated by PAW here. Why should our taxes be spent in ways that seem to be lacking in terms of meeting our needs? but we can also accept responsibitity to be pro-active and consructive (sorry about the bad pun) in how we accept and deal with what is proposed as well as what has already been done.
i'd love to hear some of your thoughts on my rambling daydreams.... maybe some might be read and become reality in the future.....
cheers all, Liam

[north-north-west]

The only thing that would really work would be to return TasPAWS to the sort of set up we had when I worked there.
A separate department, with its own Minister, and an adequate staff and budget. And minimal interference from the *expletive deleted* politicians.

[geoskid]

The only thing that would really work would be to return TasPAWS to the sort of set up we had when I worked there.

Your a dark horse NNW - Have you mentioned this before and I have missed it? - or are you even more talented than I had you pegged for?

[north-north-west]

I mentioned my misspent youth when I first joined (under another name). It was a very, very long time ago.

And I have many talents which none of you suspect . . .

[tastrax]

..... And minimal interference from the *expletive deleted* politicians.

[johnat]

Just back from my first Tasmanian bushwalking experience, 6 days on the Overland Track.

Overall, the experience was a good one, almost perfect weather for a start!

One blight on the trip was the appalling design of the Bert Nichols (not Nicholas!) hut.
The "drying room" ("leave wet clothing here to dry") is diagonally opposite the heater! No drying will ever happen there!
The sleeping area could have been warmed by the simple addition of some vents from the dining area to the sleeping area.
The second last thing a weary walker needs after a long day on the track, is to be greeted with the need to climb/descend stairs to get between the packs and the dining area.
The "Architects" obviously NEVER visited the site, and had never been on the track.
The toilet should be listed on the track notes/maps as a "side track". A far shorter route could have been found without too much effort!

Apart from that, the hut is a resounding success!

New Pelion hut, OTOH was at least useful, well designed and comfortable. The smoke alarms, however, are waaay out of reach of any but 7 ft giants standing on the top bunk and using a long broom handle! I'd hate to have to change the batteries in those! (I'm told that the NP hut was designed and built by rangers - at least people who use the facilities, and walk the track!)

[tasadam]

Re the New Pelion Hut smole alarm batteries, I am sure that parks staff will have a ladder hiding somewhere.
Tempting it was to tell the yarn about how all rangers down here must be 7 feet tall with a built in broom handle... And we'd all know where that was kept!

[cjhfield]

I stayed here recently. Its a great hut. Quiet sleeping areas. Huge kitchen room. Its double glazed for heaven sakes! I dont think you can complain about the odd step in a bushwalking hut. If you added vents to the sleeping area the current quiet area would get the noise as well. As for the "drying room" its really a misnomer - its a dripping room to keep wet stuff out of the main living section. The idea is you don't dry your socks and boots in front of the stove, you leave them here, put them on wet next day as they will get wet again pretty soon anyway. The same as if you were in a tent. There isn't really the fuel to dry everyone's gear. Anyone who was freezing should have brought warmer gear. Its going to be warmer than a tent.

As for the size it is huge and only sleeps 24 (or 28 I forget) but in reality it would sleep over 60. They are in a bind - they want to send the message you have to take a tent but in reality about half the walkers have incredibly inappropriate gear so they have to accept for safety sake the huts need to house at least double the nominal capacity.

I walked this track 30 years ago (2 or 3 times depending how you count) and IMHO the track is in superb condition. Compared to the old days there is no mud. The track up Oakleigh reminded me how it used to be with waist deep holes. Given how much work has been done on the track I reckon its worth the entry price. ( and probably more). I take my hat off to those track workers who did the duck boards. Did you see some of the hand cut wooden joints? Work of art I reckon.

Chris

[Flyboy]

I thought the new Bert Nichol's Hut was fantastic. My humble opinion on a few of the issues:

1. The drying room
As has been indicated by others, it's not really a drying room. It's there so people can take muddy & wet boots and clothes off and store them away from other gear and not track mud through the hut

2. The heating
Vents from the common area to the sleeping area would transmit the smell of everyone's food (and some people's hiking food smells awful IMHO ), and even worse, noise. I don't think there's anything more annoying in a hut than lots of noise when the majority of people have gone to bed.

3. The toilet
You should try trekking to the one at Michael's Hut (Lake Vera) on the way to Frenchman's Cap!

4. The stairs
After summiting Tasmania's highest mountain, I wasn't too fussed about a couple of stairs

I remember reading articles in Tahune Hut from when it was first built. The contractor was severely publicly criticised when the hut was first completed - for the price, the shape, the size, the structural design, the internal layout, the amount of time/labour required for on-site construction, and the fact that it was some-what pre-assembled into large sections which were hard to chopper in.

Years later, two walkers were stranded when a phenomenal 2.5m of snow fell. They sought refuge in the hut, which quite amazingly held the snow load safely and kept them alive for 8 days before a rescue could be completed. Those 8 days alone probably justified the cost of that hut.

While maybe some things could have been done better with Bert Nichols and it's good to discuss them, I think people need to remain realistic. You can't have a large, warm, strong, invisble and cheap hut in the middle of nowhere.

[johnat]

OK, take all those points. Vents don't have to be sound conduits, some insulation in the vent would allow the passage of warm air but block most of the noise. Besides, you could always tent it, we did and it was fabulous! I was told by a couple of rangers that the architect had never visited the site, had designed the place as a "ski lodge" - still not effective for that either.

Don't quite understand the point of having a room that is to "take off muddy, wet boots etc" that doesn't even attempt to let them dry. Most people, when we were there, just carried their boots to the heater - would it not have been better to have ducted the heat to the "drip room"? There's not enough fuel??? There's a damned site more fuel there, stacked under the floor at the downhill side of the building than would be needed to heat the entire place for a couple of seasons. Besides that, there are the huge logs that were dropped to make a space for the hut. More than sufficient fuel!

The viewing platform would have been better added to the "front" side of the building, or at least some larger windows on the side that faces the views, and the skylights ... sheesh! replace the roof to fix a couple of leaks?? Gimme a break! Sealing a skylight ain't rocket surgery, a ranger and a couple tubes of silicone should do the job! No need to replace the whole roof making an already dark dining/cooking area into the black hole of calcutta!

[Azza]

While maybe some things could have been done better with Bert Nichols and it's good to discuss them, I think people need to remain realistic. You can't have a large, warm, strong, invisble and cheap hut in the middle of nowhere.

It costs us 1 million dollars to build a a hut in Tasmania.

The New Zealanders can build an alpine hut at 2000m that sleeps 28 for under $400,000.
It has proper heating, a drying room, solar lighting, working sinks and inbuilt gas cookers.
Just take a look at Mueller Hut in Mt Cook National Park.

I think we got ripped off somewhat. The design of the hut would be better suited to a warmer climate.

I could almost forgive the designers if they'd had put a decent deck out the back like New Pelion so you could enjoy the view of the Du Range Range.

[frenchy_84]

IMHO it doesnt need ducts to either sleeping areas or drying room because thats what sleeping bags are for and your feet will get wet the next day anyway. Ducts will just add to the heating ineffiecency. Where this hut fails is with the high ceilings and artwork. Why when you are making a hut in an alpine area and warmth is a priority would you put in high cathedral ceilings. It just doesnt make sense, yes it has a wood heater that can warm the space but with lower ceilings less fuel wood be needed to do so. And that artwork! wether you like it or not, the fact money was spent on creating it and then helicoptering it in is just ridiculous. It is an alpine hut, it has one simple purpose only.
Do you think that when the original trappers in the areas made their huts, they sat back and thought gee this is nice but it could sure do with some sculptures!

[Azza]

the fact money was spent on creating it and then helicoptering it in is just ridiculous.

I think its actually commonwealth law that any new public building must have works of art.
i.e. Its some sort scheme designed to support the art community.

[walkinTas]

That is "have" works of art, not "attempt to be" a work of art. A couple of windows framing nearby vistas would have sufficed as works of art - natures own art.

[frenchy_84]

the fact money was spent on creating it and then helicoptering it in is just ridiculous.

I think its actually commonwealth law that any new public building must have works of art.
i.e. Its some sort scheme designed to support the art community.

and yet we continue to cut the health budget

Last edited by frenchy_84 on Fri 02 Sep, 2011 5:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Rule 1: reported offensive comment

[Azza]

ooo... do you need a 'just joking' so someone doesn't get offended?

[ollster]

ooo... do you need a 'just joking' so someone doesn't get offended?

If someone get's offended I'll send them a box of tissues. I'd love to get paid good money by the government to do my hobbies, so it irks me that artists get a free ride to wind some *&%$#! wire together in the shape of a fish. They could've at least made it look like a *&%$#! galaxia.

[tastrax]

The New Zealanders can build an alpine hut at 2000m that sleeps 28 for under $400,000.

I would be very surprised if that was the full cost - this article seems to suggest the Mueller tender was over $400K (back in 2002) and may not have included all the costs. Hard to tell unless you see what was actually in the tender.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24276519.html

As for the public art...

"The State Government currently allocates two per cent of building budgets to the commissioning of art works. The full percentage is available to buildings with a budget below $4 million. Above that figure a ceiling limit of $72,000 for art works applies. "

http://www.arts.tas.gov.au/news_archive ... pportunity

[frenchy_84]

well if its a 1.2million dollar job, my maths would have me believe 24,000 was spent on art! when will the madness stop, the government is crying poor and they spend money on art.

Atleast they didnt have to build a bridge over it.

(Just Joking)

[ollster]

well if its a 1.2million dollar job, my maths would have me believe 24,000 was spent on art! when will the madness stop, the government is crying poor and they spend money on art.

I bet it was called "Aesthetic consultancy". Anyway... $24,000.

[Son of a Beach]

The subject/title of this topic has been annoying me for nearly 3 years, so I've just changed it (removed the "a").

[johnw]

The subject/title of this topic has been annoying me for nearly 3 years, so I've just changed it (removed the "a").

As a spelling pedant, .

"The State Government currently allocates two per cent of building budgets to the commissioning of art works. The full percentage is available to buildings with a budget below $4 million. Above that figure a ceiling limit of $72,000 for art works applies. "

That's it, I'm moving to Tasmania and becoming an artist.

(Just Joking)

[Azza]

The New Zealanders can build an alpine hut at 2000m that sleeps 28 for under $400,000.

I would be very surprised if that was the full cost - this article seems to suggest the Mueller tender was over $400K (back in 2002) and may not have included all the costs. Hard to tell unless you see what was actually in the tender.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24276519.html

yea.. I guess its hard to know the full cost.

I've been to the hut twice, the first time was the predecessor to the current hut. It was considerably smaller than todays behemoth.
The current incarnation has a rather informative history board up on display. The hut has been distroyed / removed / rebuilt a rediculous number of times.
It actually mentions the cost for the new structure being around the figure quoted in that article.

The entire hut was prefabricated and flown to the site in sections for assembly - several hundred metres from the old hut which was disassembled.
Cheaper to build offsite and heli in. Anyway I found it interesting what they can do over there in a more difficult environment for what would seem to be a lot less money.

[johnat]

That is "have" works of art, not "attempt to be" a work of art. A couple of windows framing nearby vistas would have sufficed as works of art - natures own art.

Ab ... So ... Blooming ... Lutely!

[rucksack]

I don’t quite understand all this hostility towards artists in this thread.

rucksack

[ollster]

I think social security for artists in the form of requiring "art" in public structures is a joke.

Last edited by ollster on Fri 02 Sep, 2011 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Removed public discussion of specific moderation in line with site rules.

[frenchy_84]

I don’t quite understand all this hostility towards artists in this thread.

rucksack

Alot of the discussions on the Bert Nichols project has been related towards the cost. As the government has handed out/wasted 24grand on art i think being abit peeved is understandable. Whether people think its good art or bad art isnt relevant, its just not needed in a costly alpine hut

[doogs]

I thought I might give this art gig a go, so I did a quick self portrait last night (see same red beard and all). You can see it as my current avatar. Does anyone think I may make it? 24k would be handy!

[ollster]

I thought I might give this art gig a go, so I did a quick self portrait last night (see same red beard and all). You can see it as my current avatar. Does anyone think I may make it? 24k would be handy!

Doogs continues his exploration of form and colour, geometry and balance, aligned with his ‘music to canvas’ inspirations. Both formal and at times whimsical, Doogs paints with a depth of warm emotion, often providing the viewer with a sense of harmony and joy.

I award thee 4/5 lols:

[Son of a Beach]

Several posts in this topic have now been edited or deleted due to people deliberately breaking the site rules. Because this is deliberate, official warnings will also be issued. However, let me clear up a few misconceptions that some of the offending posts seemed to be based on...

Discussion or questioning of moderation is not forbidden. However, if you wish to discuss or question moderation, it needs to be done either in private with the moderation team, or needs to be in the "Forum and Site" forum. When there in the public "Forum and Site" forum, it needs to be generic discussion of moderation which is not specific to a particular incident. Moderators do not believe that we are above reproach, and we recognise that we do make errors. However, discussion of specific moderation actions in public forums is off topic, and in most cases it merely comes down to a matter of judgement, in which cases people's opinions are always going to differ, and public discussion on moderation opinions is unlikely to be productive.

Nobody has been moderated "for having an opinion". People are encouraged to share their opinions, and are welcome to do so within the rules. In fact opinions is what the forums thrive on. There are plenty of ways to present an opinion without being offensive and without breaking site rules.