Boot question: Goretex or non-Goretex?

[GPSGuided]

mine was torn into several different pieces,, wasnt in one particular spot, the tears were long.

Interesting isn't it? That'd be a different kind of failure mode. I have seen similar in the failure of a membrane in my old ski shell. Given how contaminated a pair of boots get (salt, humidity, bacteria, other chemicals), I wonder how they affect the life span of the membranes. In membraned clothing, we talk about regular washing to preserve the membranes. I wonder how many wash their boots to the same degree?

[Orion]

gore tex seems to be used as much as a selling point of footwear as it is for having a useful function...
and so its hard to find as much range of hiking footwear that don't have gore tex.... so people get sucked into buying it almost by default in a lot of cases, all depends on the conditions you want to use the footwear in as to whether it will be of real use.... but the footwear designers dont seem to think so

I agree with this in a general sense. But I also think that Goretex is worth the money and makes sense as a default for boots.

My Goretex lined leather boots currently retail for $300.
The non-Goretex version sells for $225.

Even with it's limitations and the extra cost I go with the Goretex every time.

[slparker]

gore tex seems to be used as much as a selling point of footwear as it is for having a useful function...
and so its hard to find as much range of hiking footwear that don't have gore tex.... so people get sucked into buying it almost by default in a lot of cases, all depends on the conditions you want to use the footwear in as to whether it will be of real use.... but the footwear designers dont seem to think so

I agree with this in a general sense. But I also think that Goretex is worth the money and makes sense as a default for boots.

My Goretex lined leather boots currently retail for $300.
The non-Goretex version sells for $225.

Even with it's limitations and the extra cost I go with the Goretex every time.

That's an interesting point, this is how it seems to me:

waterproofness: leather: probably not waterproof for very long, - Goretex; probably waterproof all day - mesh/nylon boots - exceedingly water penetratable
breathability: leather: not very breathable, but sweat soaks through with capillary action, definitely not breathable if waterproofed - goretex - not particularly breathable despite claims - mesh/nylon - somewhat breathable or at least sweat escapes by capillary action
immersability Leather: cold wet heavy water can't escape without removing foot and innersole - goretex - same as leather - mesh/nylon : drains well and is light
dryability leather: forget it, your boots are wet and heavy until you get home or have a rest day in warm sun - goretex:same as leather unless you have a newer nylon/goretex hybrid in which case welcome to the world of wet but light footwear- nylon/mesh - dries when walking in warm weather... eventually and only if you fully drain them, squeeze out socks etc.... but claims of 'quick drying' are fanciful in my experience

My take on this is why would you want leather boots at all? Their only advantage is that they look cool, look trad and are very abrasion resistant (IMHO) but my boots have always worn out in the sole before the upper anyway..

[wayno]

if you're in very rocky terrain where the rock is damaging the boot uppers. synthetic uppers can get wrecked before the soles wear out, nylon is more prone to being cut by rock than leather... leather will last longer than synthetics...

[slparker]

I've walked for years in rocky terrain and can attest to leather holding up but I'd like to try some hybrids to see how they go - if you get a good couple of years I'd be happy. I notice that there's a lot of mountaineering boots that are predominately synthetic these days.

[sthughes]

I love this talk about stuff drying while on a bushwalk. On most walks I do, once something is wet it stays that way, no matter what it is made off! There are exceptional walks in the summer where that's different, but not many. On those walks I sometimes wear non-leather boots that have (or had) a waterproof liner.

I have never had a pair of waterproof lined boots stay waterproof more than 3 days walking. Conversely my last pair of Scarpa SL's were still waterproof when I replaced them after many dozens of days walking. My feet tended to get a little damp, be it from sweat or very, very slow capillary action I don't know. But I would rather a bit of constant warm dampness than have non-waterproof footwear that every time you tread in water you feel the frigid cold! And on some tracks that means every step!

Hence when I bought my latest pair I went for full grained leather that I should be able to keep 99% waterproof for the life of the boot, and with their gore-tex liner they should be 100% waterproof for a least a walk or two, I hope.

[Orion]

My take on this is why would you want leather boots at all? Their only advantage is that they look cool, look trad and are very abrasion resistant (IMHO) but my boots have always worn out in the sole before the upper anyway..

That's an interesting point of view. I'll have to digest that a bit. My preferences for leather date back to pre-Goretex days. I mostly wear shoes now and only go to my soft leather boots when I need waterproofness (spring snow or Tasmania) or something halfway suitable for a crampon on snow.

So maybe it doesn't make sense. A Goretex lined fabric hightop shoe might be better for Tasmania or California spring snow. There is a difference in stiffness for snow but lightweight leather isn't all that stiff either. Wayno's observation that leather is more abrasion resistant in rocky terrain is valid, in my experience, but so what? Buy a new pair when they get damaged. I'll bet it's still cheaper than leather.

The thing is, I like leather. The feel of it, the look of it, the idea that a cow died for it. The sexual connotations. Leather. Leeaatthhhher. Don't you like it too?

[wayno]

if you are up and down scree slopes a lot, just see how fast synthetic boots get trashed compared to leather...

[GPSGuided]

These drain and dry fast and have been used by many to walk in all kinds of terrain...

[bluewombat]

lets face it, doesn't matter how good your boots are, if the puddle is deeper than your gaiters you are going to get wet feet and even if it is not if you spend all day in a bog the water eventually gets in somewhere. I would suggest the best boots are the ones that fit you well and protect your feet in the terrain you like walking in most of the time. I have always thought I would love some Scarpas but every time I have bought some I sold them again because they don't fit me well enough even when broken in, on the other hand Salomons are like a glove (a somewhat colourful, slightly leaky, stretch over time glove)
bw

ps gortex ligaments for ligament injuries have not been used for 20+ years, they often used to fail over time and the little fibres of gortex can cause nasty changes in your knee

[north-north-west]

lets face it, doesn't matter how good your boots are, if the puddle is deeper than your gaiters you are going to get wet feet and even if it is not if you spend all day in a bog the water eventually gets in somewhere.

It's the 'eventually' bit that bugs me, especially when used by the pro-shoe brigade. (Not that that's applicable to your post, but it's rant time.)
First up, wading a (shortish) knee-deep (or higher) creek or puddle or bog and keeping feet dry is possible provided you move quickly enough and your gaiters are a good snug fit over the boots. A good pair of overpants with a tight cuff - worn over the gaiter - also help. So does a goretex lining. I've gone all the way into Junction Creek during one of the Arthur Plains' wetter & boggier phases and still had dry feet until the creek crossing.

[Scottyk]

lets face it, doesn't matter how good your boots are, if the puddle is deeper than your gaiters you are going to get wet feet and even if it is not if you spend all day in a bog the water eventually gets in somewhere.

It's the 'eventually' bit that bugs me, especially when used by the pro-shoe brigade. (Not that that's applicable to your post, but it's rant time.)
First up, wading a (shortish) knee-deep (or higher) creek or puddle or bog and keeping feet dry is possible provided you move quickly enough and your gaiters are a good snug fit over the boots. A good pair of overpants with a tight cuff - worn over the gaiter - also help. So does a goretex lining. I've gone all the way into Junction Creek during one of the Arthur Plains' wetter & boggier phases and still had dry feet until the creek crossing.

I agree with nnw on this one. I have walked across the Arthur Plains and up Moraine A then back again an kept my feet dry the whole time. This was in June when wet. So the idea that wet feet are inevitable and so we should all wear mesh shoes is nonsense.
I like dry feet and with a little care and a bit of sno seal on my Scarpa SL's I can achieve that on most walks. Sure I do get wet feet but it is the exception rather than the rule.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Remember too, that Goretex is not a type of fabric like leather or synthetic, it is actually the name of the trademark on the technology design.

Other trademark designs are getting better at emulating what goretex does. In fact, I bought a pair of columbia trail runners recently with their patented version of technology membrane, called "Outdry".

I watched the videos and was a little sceptical of the comparisons to Goretex, but now I've worn them in all sorts of conditions, Outdry IMHO (well at least in the trail runner application) is better than Goretex.

I have submersed my foot in streams up to the top of the shoe and my feet are bone dry. My feet (which sweat a lot) are always remarkably dry after long, hot walks - I can only assume because the water is being removed from the shoe through the membrane. They have been, well, simply awesome.

In other applications, I really don't know because I haven't actually tried different things to compare. I quite like my event jacket, but then I haven't ever used a Goretex equivalent, so I don't know. I'm sure Goretex outperforms other layers depending on application.

I guess all I'm saying is when it comes to shoes, Goretex is not the only waterproof/breathable technology available.

[wayno]

the company that makes gore tex have complete control over who can make products with their technology in it, you have to make the products up to their quality control standard and specifications and show them the products you are going to make with their technology in it... if yo dont adhere to their quality control then they don't supply you.
yes you pay a premium for gore tex, but they have generally done their best to try and ensure a decent standard of manufacture. sure gore tex is hardly perfect either and the competition has been catching up...

[GPSGuided]

WL Gore remains privately held and is quite impressive with what they've taken their version of PTFE technology!

[slparker]

lets face it, doesn't matter how good your boots are, if the puddle is deeper than your gaiters you are going to get wet feet and even if it is not if you spend all day in a bog the water eventually gets in somewhere.

It's the 'eventually' bit that bugs me, especially when used by the pro-shoe brigade. (Not that that's applicable to your post, but it's rant time.)
First up, wading a (shortish) knee-deep (or higher) creek or puddle or bog and keeping feet dry is possible provided you move quickly enough and your gaiters are a good snug fit over the boots. A good pair of overpants with a tight cuff - worn over the gaiter - also help. So does a goretex lining. I've gone all the way into Junction Creek during one of the Arthur Plains' wetter & boggier phases and still had dry feet until the creek crossing.

I agree with nnw on this one. I have walked across the Arthur Plains and up Moraine A then back again an kept my feet dry the whole time. This was in June when wet. So the idea that wet feet are inevitable and so we should all wear mesh shoes is nonsense.
I like dry feet and with a little care and a bit of sno seal on my Scarpa SL's I can achieve that on most walks. Sure I do get wet feet but it is the exception rather than the rule.

well, it's horses for courses and we can all find anecdotes to support our particular biases. I think that gore-tex lined footwear is superb for alpine walking when I know that it won't be knee deep mud, superb for day-walks and superb for general day-today walking in wet weather. Gore-tex footwear is horrible in hot weather, anywhere in australia.
leather-only footwear, in my opinion, is only suitable for an even narrower range of applications because your feet will get wet much sooner, or the thickness of the leather(and the weight) will have to be so much greater to achieve a comparable degree of waterproofness to gore-tex. My point being: what could possibly the advantage of leather boots over goretex lined leather if your main criterion is waterproofness?

Lightweight mesh footwear is, in my opinion, superb for wet muddy tracks where you're wading most of the day. Why lug around 2kg of wet feet, socks, and trapped water in a wetted out boot?

[sthughes]

Why lug around 2kg of wet feet, socks, and trapped water in a wetted out boot?

Same reason I own wet suit booties I guess. Because the trapped moisture is still nice and warm, unlike the almost freezing water flushing through your mesh shoes

[Scottyk]

I agree with nnw on this one. I have walked across the Arthur Plains and up Moraine A then back again an kept my feet dry the whole time. This was in June when wet. So the idea that wet feet are inevitable and so we should all wear mesh shoes is nonsense.
I like dry feet and with a little care and a bit of sno seal on my Scarpa SL's I can achieve that on most walks. Sure I do get wet feet but it is the exception rather than the rule.

well, it's horses for courses and we can all find anecdotes to support our particular biases. I think that gore-tex lined footwear is superb for alpine walking when I know that it won't be knee deep mud, superb for day-walks and superb for general day-today walking in wet weather. Gore-tex footwear is horrible in hot weather, anywhere in australia.
leather-only footwear, in my opinion, is only suitable for an even narrower range of applications because your feet will get wet much sooner, or the thickness of the leather(and the weight) will have to be so much greater to achieve a comparable degree of waterproofness to gore-tex. My point being: what could possibly the advantage of leather boots over goretex lined leather if your main criterion is waterproofness?

Lightweight mesh footwear is, in my opinion, superb for wet muddy tracks where you're wading most of the day. Why lug around 2kg of wet feet, socks, and trapped water in a wetted out boot?

I like having dry feet, simple. My boots are leather and waterproof, no goretex required. SL's are a thing of beauty in my opinion and they offer fantastic support when carrying a pack.
Can we all find anecdotes to support our particular biases, yep, just like you do.
I go bushwalking in Tassie alot and so that means my "anecdotes" hold some weight to this particular thread question. The OP asked about Tassie walking particularly.
Can you please stop criticising anyone who thinks boots are a good idea to hike in, this isnt the only thread. It is getting old

[slparker]

Scottyk, I walk in boots and walk in tassy and there are alternatives to scarpa Sl boots, as much as you love them. Why do you have a problem with other posters offering alternatives?

[Taurë-rana]

I had a pair of mesh/nylon boots that were supposed to have a waterproof/breathable lining and they were never waterproof but very comfortable to walk in. They didn't dry on my feet either. I wore them on a wet, rough 7 day trip in the south-west with no problems. They got a bit worn out so reluctantly I bought a new pair, and they were leather with a waterproof liner and they are bliss because I only get soaking wet feet through the hole in the top, although they do get a bit damp from condensation. I walked up a river in them the other day, and after I got out it didn't take long for the water trapped in them to get nice and warm.They are incidentally, not much heavier than the nylon/mesh ones.

Seems to me that for Tassie there are pros and cons whichever way you go, the most important thing is that your boots are comfortable, well made and supportive.

I would definitely go the nylon/mesh ones in hotter parts of Oz though.