'The Reserve' in Winter

[stu]

Whatever; the only "incident'' I recall being involved in was sticking up for a mate who you were deliberately baiting & antagonising.
I just said I agreed with what you were trying to say, you just didn't say it, be clear!
If you're going to be a moderator prepare to receive flak on vague rulings, or don't be a moderator. Simple.

[north-north-west]

I mean, I suspect NNW never read the original post before jumping on mine. She complied with this rule just the other day: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20691 It was good enough then..

Your suspicions are both unfounded and insulting.
And, as Andy hasn't broken the rule, I fail to see what my compliance has to do with it.

I could suggest to NNW that with another couple of years in the bush her opinion may very well become a feeling about right/wrong/indifference, good luck trying to defend a 'feeling' when that inevitably happens.

How much time do I have to spend out bush before you consider my opinions have merit? And how do you know whether or not I have amassed that amount of time out there?

Public confrontation is unnecessary and also unpleasant for those not involved. There are other ways to resolve these issues.
Would you be happier if everyone who had views other than yours simply left this forum?

Andy - and everyone else reading this thread - my apologies for the argument.

[andyszollosi]

Take a deep breath everyone, and contemplate the pool of memories for a second.

[andyszollosi]

Does anyone else have some photos of the Reserve in winter they're willing to share here? Would love to hear about some winter adventures if anyone has some stories to tell!?

[GPSGuided]

What would be similarly interesting is a side by side of winter and summer (or even 4 seasons) images of the same spot.

[MickyB]

To anyone who takes the effort to stop, takes the gloves off in freezing cold and set up their camera for some incredible shots... I'm in awe! These photos and the stories that goes with them are just amazing and inspiring.

Agree. I especially love the photo of Cradle Mountain and Dove Lake.

What would be similarly interesting is a side by side of winter and summer (or even 4 seasons) images of the same spot.

Agree with GPSGuided again. I always enjoy looking at photos of the same spot but taken in different seasons. Sometimes its amazing as to how much a landscape can change.

[Nuts]

Andy, it's a park, The Park (it's ok, Kool speak, jic you didn't realise is all.)
Nice image again. Motivates one want to save wild places right there.

NNW what do you not get, Andy has broken the forum rules.
There is precedent for that very thing and it's almost a perfect example (to me) of the spirit of that rule.
Even if there wasn't and it wasn't i'm not going to try to defend concerns at a level obviously outside your experiences or willingness to consider. I thought the pm conversation was enough, you come back here to have another go .. and then apologise to Andy for doing so in this thread why? A popular thing to say?

Stu, I enjoyed helping the new walkers and those new to this site but gave up moderating long ago.
Too much insincere nepotistic point scoring, mostly from your Mob.

[hobbitle]

One of the nicest thread beginnings here ruined by arguments that make no sense to any casual forum users who are ignorant of the politics - ruins it for us and makes me not want to spend more time here really.

Anyway Andy, stunning photos and I look forward to more in the future. I hope you're keeping warm now that you're home!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nuts]

Sorry hobbite, that was never my intent.
Occasionally this forum is not like a glossy brochure all neatly arranged. I'm sure most of this will be cut to the ether and there'll nothing to stress over, all will be well.

[MJD]

Great pictures. epic trip. Pity about Nuts trying to hijack the thread.

[greyim]

Haha awesome trip, many thanks for the pics.... there's adventure to be had if you not too sensitive (- about the temperature, that is)
Cheers

[pazzar]

Great photos Andy! I'm very jealous - I wish I had 25 days to wander around in the snow!

[andyszollosi]

Nuts, as far as I'm aware, I haven't broken any of the rules and I would much prefer if we could discuss this matter via a PM, rather than turn off other users of the forum with petty arguments.

As for everyone else, I suggest the easier way to end this argument is by not responding to any of Nuts' comments from this point on as he seems determined to stir the pot, for the sake of stirring the pot!

I have also modified the caption on the photo that was in question, so as not to encourage people striking a campsite in the same spot.

I believe no more needs to be said on this matter.

Let's continue this thread in the spirit in which it was begun, before we got side tracked by a silly argument.

[Nuts]

Silly indeed. I give, I should have just reported the post rather than get pounded into submission by the full circus lol
I give, not that it was ever about me.. you have all this endorsement, you should now feel justified in leaving that caption up Andy as that's the level of concern everyone now agrees too.

Well done team.

[PeterJ]

I used to visit this forum regularly but It has been several months since I last did. The comments and tone from Nuts means I probably won't now be back for while.

[Nuts]

That's surpising peter, there is nothing new in the argument here. I expected your comment to move above people, the argument, and defend fragile places. Personally I think that I made a worthwhile contribution, despite the flak . Personally I think it's a bit too late to be embarrassed by giving it all way in a hurry, you can save lashing out at me.

[corvus]

Andy great photos however did you not elect to Camp in a fragile area when with your experience would have known it was not appropriate even on snow ? the "campsites "on the Pelion East side would have been more appropriate for an experienced walker IMHO.

[andyszollosi]

There were a number of reasons why we chose to camp where we did, Corvus, and all of them were well justified at the time.

The fragility of the area is an important factor when deciding a camp site, for sure. However, there was very decent snow cover and so I don't believe our site left much of an impact.

Furthermore, we chose our campsite to set us up for a traverse of Mt Ossa the following day. Considering the short daylight hours in June, striking a camp on Pelion East would have taken away a valuable hour from our walking time the next day. As it was, we abandoned our original plan due to the conditions.

Our camp site was also slightly more sheltered where we camped than it would've been on Pelion East and the wind was gusting at 100km/h+ an hour. In short, we chose the campsite as much for safety as for convenience.

[pazzar]

I've been biting my tongue here for a while now, not wanting to get involved. This argument is ridiculous though.

There are many sensitive areas that we camp and walk in all the time. How many of you have camped in the Mt Massif bowl? How many of you know that the bowl itself is one of the rarest ecosystems in Australia, and is at considerable risk of collapse? How many have walked through the spaghnum bog on the Maggs track, damaging a very slow growing moss with every step? I'm not exempt from this either, I have camped in fragile areas as well, but fully aware of the significance and always very selective as to have minimal impact. From looking at the picture in question, I would think the level of snow was protection enough to the cushion moors. They are quite resilient when they are unbroken, they bear the weight of snow regularly and seem to thrive on it for prolonged periods, so the weight on top of snowpack would have a very marginal effect.

I would hope that most of us that walk off track have the sense of mind to be responsible about where we camp, and as Andy has just said, this was a case of safety rather than preference. I don't know how many of you have spent a night exposed in gale force winds, but I can tell you it is not a good feeling. Sure there are some idiots out there that are irresponsible and do camp on fragile ground with no consideration to it's impact, but from all that I have read here, Andy is not one of them.

[corvus]

Andy,
With respect I believe you chose that camp site because it was was easier for your start up Ossa yet more exposed than those in the trees at Pelion East which are 20 mins or so more from the turn off to your Doris camp site,mate we have all made mistakes me included many times (fortunately not on line as yet) however as one as experienced as you camping in a fragile area I would have thought lets use a naff site on the East rather than interfere with fragile plants.

[pazzar]

Andy,
With respect I believe you chose that camp site because it was was easier for your start up Ossa yet more exposed than those in the trees at Pelion East which are 20 mins or so more from the turn off to your Doris camp site,mate we have all made mistakes me included many times (fortunately not on line as yet) however as one as experienced as you camping in a fragile area I would have thought lets use a naff site on the East rather than interfere with fragile plants.

Have you camped at Pelion East in gale force winds Corvus?

[andyszollosi]

I honestly wasn't aware of a good camp site in the trees that close to Pelion Gap. The only one I knew of was further up where it's more exposed.

I think we can agree that camping on durable surfaces that are sheltered is always preferable to exposed, fragile places, which are best avoided as camp sites.

In hindsight it's always easy to make the perfect call

[andyszollosi]

ps: In the end, our camp site wasn't quite as well sheltered as we thought it was! But we didn't find that out till halfway through the night, when the wind changed direction!

[corvus]

Andy,
With respect I believe you chose that camp site because it was was easier for your start up Ossa yet more exposed than those in the trees at Pelion East which are 20 mins or so more from the turn off to your Doris camp site,mate we have all made mistakes me included many times (fortunately not on line as yet) however as one as experienced as you camping in a fragile area I would have thought lets use a naff site on the East rather than interfere with fragile plants.

Have you camped at Pelion East in gale force winds Corvus?

Never thankfully however would you like to be exposed on Doris or prefer at least sheltered by the trees on the PE slope ??

[andyszollosi]

Really, we should have just stayed in New Pelion Hut, would've saved everyone a big head ache!

[Nuts]

Pazzar, i'm not really sure whether there is an 'argument', nobody has actually said that they support the captioned image besides Andy.

Please entertain the notion that me making the point had nothing to do with questioning anyone's integrity. I can't think of anyone that has been around the park for a while promoting camping up there in an open forum but it can just be about the one photo and its caption (if you like). The questioning of which was my contribution. Not the act of camping there.

Though I would suggest that if the integrity practiced in remote places is evident by the attitude displayed in this thread then your idea of minimal impact is different to mine.

[andyszollosi]

Just going to point out that I have modified the 'caption' to exclude the location as a sign of respect to the area and the users of this forum.

[jimmyharris]

A few more pictures from the trip. The first one is from the day of the now notorious camp.


Descending Pelion East in 100km/hr winds and driving snow.


Paddy's Nut and Pelion West shrouded in clouds at sunset.


Andy in the foreground and Perrins Bluff in the background during out ascent of Mount Thetis.


Early morning view from Mount Achilles.


Descending Mount Achilles on our way around to Pelion West.

[andyszollosi]

Nice one Jimmy!

[Scottyk]

Does anyone else have some photos of the Reserve in winter they're willing to share here? Would love to hear about some winter adventures if anyone has some stories to tell!?

I like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_eYThe5tsY
I haven't been up there in winter but Mark's video show just how much work your trip would have been
Hats off to you and you team, epic trip. Bugger the arguments about a camp on Doris