Tarkine mining

[gorby]

open cut is a big hole in the ground and when you fill it back in and revegetate it then becomes a non hole .

[theMISSIONARY]

There's a side you still don't reply too. Your argument is that the mine won't cause much to the environment. But you're never replying about the fact that this is a mine that will hardly create any long term positive effect to Tasmanian economy. I've seen countless people explaining why the mine shouldn't be constructed, and all the pro-mine are replying is that these argument aren't valid enough, while they don't provide any about the fact that this mine is useless. This mine does nothing else than poach the environment, all for the sake of a big Indian conglomerate, will be there for only a couple of years, with yet long lasting environmental effects, and yet none of you is here to explain why it should be there in the first place. All you keep saying is that you disagree that it will damage the environment.

it really needs little to explanation.....i see no proof of long lasting effects just uneducated opinionating

who owns the mine means little ,the money that people earn working there and the relevant supporting businesses (fuel ,food,accommodation etc) will All get money out of it and that makes it worth it.

as for long term nothing is long term not even Ecoterrorism ......oh sorry ecotourism

[Nuts]

The old open cuts around the WA goldfields are great fun on bikes. I don't suppose you can blame people for being a bit skeptical about the cleanup (though I think the spotlight would be on the companies more in Tassie to do a proper job)

I'm not sure you guys would mean that visiting old sites is a good idea for starting new ones I don't think that tourism is the be all/end all and it definitely has its own footprint, impact wise. Perhaps the resorts could go where the mines are (lakeside resorts ), otherwise, yeah, it wont be mines Then tourism impacts... it will be mines And tourism.. and whatever other industry is given a precedent once mining starts.

I'm a bit skeptical about such a blanket need for reserving the whole area tagged 'The Tarkine' (just thinking about some areas/the small amount I have seen) but surely it's worth saving any public land that is still in a reasonably natural state? Devils, Quolls etc etc but also just 'because we can'..

[doogs]

it really needs little to explanation.....i see no proof of long lasting effects just uneducated opinionating

You'll probably find the folk who are expressing an opinion against this mine are probably among the more educated on the subject. Folk aren't necessarily arguing about mining as an industry, they are more concerned about the location of the mine v economic benefit of the mine. It just doesn't make sense to put an open cut mine in a valuable ecosystem when other areas are more suitable for the industry.

open cut is a big hole in the ground and when you fill it back in and revegetate it then becomes a non hole .

When I go bushwalking sometimes I dig a big hole, defaecate in it and then fill it back up. Doesn't mean the faeces aren't their, in fact it takes many years for the paper and poo to decompose.

[sthughes]

1) The iron extracted here isn't going to help the comfort of any Aussie home

So you are happy to not use any items containing iron from now on?

2) Comparing an open cut mine to aboriginal art is absolutely revolting

To you perhaps. At least some economic benifits come from mining, defacing cave walls however...?

This is just a region of Australia where unemployment happens to be higher than the other states. And it is only about 10%, and as said many times before you can still find jobs elsewhere. So if to keep Tasmania wild and beautiful, you have to work elsewhere but still in your own country, I think that's a small and worthwhile price to pay when you consider how important this natural environment is.

Amazing, just amazing. On this ridiculous theme, I think exterminating all human beings in the big cities would be far better for the environment than moving a handful of Tasmanians across the country to get a job (and still building a mine in some other place instead, because afterall the world wont stop using iron ore just because Tasmanians are locked out of their island).

These mines, and there will be plenty, .

Are we discussing all mines or this mine? I am a supporter of this mine. I am not in favour of all mines.

Could you please pop out and get us some photographs of what it looks like now? I won't be able to get there till January, and I'd like to have something for posterity.

I was there a few months back. Sorry, as it is far from being scenic or special I didn't bother taking any pictures.

I'm tired of this, it's really getting boring the same old comments. Those that don't get it never will.

[frenchy_84]

I'm a bit skeptical about such a blanket need for reserving the whole area tagged 'The Tarkine' (just thinking about some areas/the small amount I have seen) but surely it's worth saving any public land that is still in a reasonably natural state? Devils, Quolls etc etc but also just 'because we can'..

I agree. The unwillingness on both sides to compromise means that realistic conservation outcomes are not achieved. I rather look at this discussion more on the principles/impact of mining within the tarkine/reserves of the tarkine than each individual proposal. As each proposal are in different areas with their own impacts (for the record I am for the Shree mine but a little reserved about the Mt Lindsay mine). Green groups argue that a mine regardless of its locational impact affects the whole region, which i disagree with. And its a hollow argument considering there are already mines within the area. And to ask for world heritage status for the whole area waters down what world heritage status should stand for. To me, regen forests should not be part of any world heritage area.IMO what needs to be completed is a future planning scheme for the area where different areas allow different activities. Have a coastal NP around the Norfolk range and extend the Savage river NP boundaries but why stop mining exploration within the regen sumac forests? With this and many other issues the greens seem to prefer no conservation outcomes over a compromised solution which isnt really affective in a democracy where the greens get a minority vote.

[sthughes]

I agree. The unwillingness on both sides to compromise means that realistic conservation outcomes are not achieved. I rather look at this discussion more on the principles/impact of mining within the tarkine/reserves of the tarkine than each individual proposal. As each proposal are in different areas with their own impacts (for the record I am for the Shree mine but a little reserved about the Mt Lindsay mine). Green groups argue that a mine regardless of its locational impact affects the whole region, which i disagree with. And its a hollow argument considering there are already mines within the area. And to ask for world heritage status for the whole area waters down what world heritage status should stand for. To me, regen forests should not be part of any world heritage area.IMO what needs to be completed is a future planning scheme for the area where different areas allow different activities. Have a coastal NP around the Norfolk range and extend the Savage river NP boundaries but why stop mining exploration within the regen sumac forests? With this and many other issues the greens seem to prefer no conservation outcomes over a compromised solution which isnt really affective in a democracy where the greens get a minority vote.

Well said, I agree wholeheartedly. I've been commenting based on this particular mine, my comments would be different based on some other mooted mining projects in the greater "Tarkine".

[Nuts]

Could you please pop out and get us some photographs of what it looks like now? I won't be able to get there till January, and I'd like to have something for posterity.

Here's some sample pics of the various vegetation zones:

You can see the extent of these zones in the EIS

[theMISSIONARY]

it really needs little to explanation.....i see no proof of long lasting effects just uneducated opinionating

You'll probably find the folk who are expressing an opinion against this mine are probably among the more educated on the subject. Folk aren't necessarily arguing about mining as an industry, they are more concerned about the location of the mine v economic benefit of the mine. It just doesn't make sense to put an open cut mine in a valuable ecosystem when other areas are more suitable for the industry.
.

well if they are educated on the subject they are only picking the parts they like......sounds alot like the Greens

I am arguing that this mine is not really going to impact in any large way to a "Valuable ecosystem" the one right next to the Forestry.....with a number of other 4x4 tracks on or around it



anyone got a link to an unbiased scientific study with regards to the animal life in that specific area....i am doubting the number of Devils and Devil food in that area

[stepbystep]

I've never had a problem with the actual site of the Shree mine, what I have a problem with is issues such as containment of spills. The Nelson Bay River and Rebecca Creek run into Rebecca Lagoon(see page 1 of this thread), other than that it is the broader issues with allowing mines in the area, at last count their was over 50 exploration licenses for different mines.

I agree with much of what Frenchy says but can't reconcile the fact approving the Shree mine will set a modern precedent and on it goes...so he and I are going to have to agree to disagree.

sthughes your points are quite bizarre, it has been stated quite clearly that this mine will produce little iron ore over a small time, the jobs will then be gone, oh wait unless there's another 50 mines operating in the area, won't that be grand?!?! As for equating an iron ore mine with 4000 year old aboriginal petroglyphs, I do believe you need to get your head read. Never heard of aboriginal tourism? I know for a fact the aboriginal heritage of the APCA is set to increase tourism in the near future, if only the locals knew what was on their back door.

I do however agree with you on this point sthughes, some people. Just. Don't. Get. It.

[Clusterpod]

Clusterpod

I am a born an breed Tasmania currently in the NW Coast in my house. Your comments are rather typical of people that are happy to consign other people to a lower standard of living.

I am a minimum wage earner and I live below the poverty line.

Apart from zoos I doubt if any devils live in Hobart CBD. We have large areas where nature is destroyed so you can live the life you want.

On the contrary. Large areas of nature are destroyed, and most of us will never get to live the life we want.

Every industry I have experienced first hand has had protestors and end of the world doomsayers trying to stop it. I thought when wind farms were been built good news would come but no the protests and complaints came.

For years we fought Hobart and Canberra for lower speed limits on remote gravel roads and were told no as national standards had to be adhered to. Then we sealed one and Canberra imposed a speed limit to protect wildlife. Sorry all I see is meddling by remote and distance people seeking to justify their destruction of their environment by "saving" someone else's.

Protest is an important part of the democratic process. Its the way the system works. In your opinion they may be "doomsayers", but they are exercising their democratic rights to appeal decisions they do not feel represent the best interests of the community, state of nation.

Take mining out of Australia's economy and count the cost. I suppose we could slash health, education and the arts to plug the hole or stick our heads in the sand and become like Greece.

There is no comparison. Australia has the best performing economy in the world, and Tasmania is part of it. If you are worried about us going the way of Greece, then point your attention at the insane levels of private mortgage debt we hold, not what else we can dig up to ship away.

So yes shout down the locals and when they turn up as economic refugees and ship them to some remote island as this is a city persons stock in trade. Never allow a Tasmanian a chance of improving their lot.

I'm not shouting anyone down, and this isn't about obstructing Tasmanians improving their lot, its about reassessing the historically bad decision of mining in sensitive areas.

[Clusterpod]

Could you please pop out and get us some photographs of what it looks like now? I won't be able to get there till January, and I'd like to have something for posterity.

Here's some sample pics of the various vegetation zones:

Screen Shot 2013-08-04 at 10.56.47 AM.png

You can see the extent of these zones in the EIS

Haha thanks! But I was making the point of being told I shouldn't be allowed to opine because I'm not a local, by someone that isn't local.

But I guess its all a case of magnitude.

Beautiful looking heath and scrub. I bet its a bonanza of invertebrate life, especially in spring.

[Clusterpod]

I am arguing that this mine is not really going to impact in any large way to a "Valuable ecosystem" the one right next to the Forestry.....with a number of other 4x4 tracks on or around it

What dollar value to assign to an ecological region?

If your "value" comes from forestry and mining, then its fairly straight forward. If you are trying to assess the value of the ecology itself, where do you start?

Once you've dug a huge pit its too late.

well if they are educated on the subject they are only picking the parts they like......sounds alot like the Greens

If

Nice.

[Ent]

Devonport isn't the NW coast either, is it? On my map, it'd rate as the north coast...

Wow your ability to move boundaries is spellbinding. After 49 years I find that according to you that I am no longer on the North West Coast. A typical outsider approach to oppressing locals is to move the boundaries. Frankly I wonder what next! I used to live in Ulverstone and work in Circular Head. I assume your map has them as upper coast?

I suggest that you look at a map before making such statements. But it does show how out of touch with a local issue you are.

[gorby]

open cut is a big hole in the ground and when you fill it back in and revegetate it then becomes a non hole .

When I go bushwalking sometimes I dig a big hole, defaecate in it and then fill it back up. Doesn't mean the faeces aren't their, in fact it takes many years for the paper and poo to decompose.[/quote]


you misunderstand the mining concept doogs, they take the stuff away then fill the hole in, I an sure that they won't fill it with poo and paper

[Ent]

Ent, Devonport isn't The Tarkine, it isn't even close. Get off your high horse and address the issues.

High horse. Let me see the Tarkine or as locals knew it for years as the Arthur Pieman area is part if the North West Coast with many people living and commuting to work in the area like say my brother or are you going to claim we are not related based on some novel re-interpretation of family trees.

I suppose you do live in the area? Oh hang on you are from WA, that you told me means Western Australia, not the Western Arthurs.

Please show some respect to the locals while riding roughshod over them.

[Hallu]

When I go bushwalking sometimes I dig a big hole, defaecate in it and then fill it back up. Doesn't mean the faeces aren't their, in fact it takes many years for the paper and poo to decompose.

you misunderstand the mining concept doogs, they take the stuff away then fill the hole in, I an sure that they won't fill it with poo and paper

Just coz you fill the hole back and then see vegetation growing doesn't mean (at all) that the ecosystem is back to the state it was before. Possums need dead trees as habitat, wombats will bee thrown off by the change of chemicals in the soil, devils won't come back as they eat mostly wombats, birds and bats won't like it because there aren't as many insects as before due to the chemicals, amphibians are also extremely sensitive to the slightest change in the water, etc etc...

[stepbystep]

Ent, Devonport isn't The Tarkine, it isn't even close. Get off your high horse and address the issues.

High horse. Let me see the Tarkine or as locals knew it for years as the Arthur Pieman area is part if the North West Coast with many people living and commuting to work in the area like say my brother or are you going to claim we are not related based on some novel re-interpretation of family trees.

I suppose you do live in the area? Oh hang on you are from WA, that you told me means Western Australia, not the Western Arthurs.

Please show some respect to the locals while riding roughshod over them.

Yes, Ent, high horse! Your continued maginalisation of people from interstate and now outside of your 200 km zone aren't particularly nice.

I can guarantee you that I spent far more time in the Arthur-Pieman over the last 2 years than you have, and I can also guarantee I've spent a lot of time talking with the people that actually live there, not 200km away in Devonport. I've shown utmost respect to those locals and have canvassed their opinions on many of the issues that they, the real locals face.

And while you are dismounting said horse, remove the chip you have on your shoulder and offer an opinion on the LONG TERM future of this remarkable area, and perhaps offer some of your experiences of walking in the area.

[Ent]

So have you found any people that have their residence as Corrina as you claimed to on another thread? I am sure that the electoral office would like to touch base with them as would the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

I am amazed that you know where I have been for the last two years but please do not let me stop you from claiming to know everything about my movements. I do not know your movements so find your statement impossible to refute.

Sorry but your claims and approach need a review unless you can post a minute by minute schedule of my movements for the last two years compared to yours. Congratulation you have succeeded in driving me away from this thread. Please do not send me your typical pms either.

As for the rest your post is QED.

Regards

[stepbystep]

So have you found any people that have their residence as Corrina as you claimed to on another thread?

Attach link to thread please.

Congratulation you have succeeded in driving me away from this thread.

Well that will lift the tone. Au revoir.

EDIT - I haven't PM'd you in years, do you miss me?

[Strider]

Tarkine part of the NW Coast? Isn't it closer to the West Coast?

[Giddy_up]

Ahhhhh this is rubbish, I thought this site was about bush walking and its pursuit. You will change very little by tearing each other apart. I've just logged on after a great day and your all just fighting about factions and a bit of fluff. Why not impart your knowledge about what we live to do...


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

Minor moderation edit.

[flyfisher]

Agreed Giddy-up, not achieving anything are we.

Thanks for the slap, nothing further from me.

FF

[stepbystep]

Not much bushwalking to be done if 50 mines tear apart the area over the next decade or two. Unfortunately it's topical. If you're not interested don't read. G-Up.
Glad you had a good day in the bush, lucky you, best not open topics about mining in Tasmania..!!

[Nuts]

Could you please pop out and get us some photographs of what it looks like now? I won't be able to get there till January, and I'd like to have something for posterity.

Here's some sample pics of the various vegetation zones:

Screen Shot 2013-08-04 at 10.56.47 AM.png

You can see the extent of these zones in the EIS

Haha thanks! But I was making the point of being told I shouldn't be allowed to opine because I'm not a local, by someone that isn't local.

welll.. perhaps understanding subtle 'local' issues.. and especially being a local voter (even if not having been to this very place), doubt this would be a major vote changer but the pollies obviously think so.

[Nuts]

I guess for such emotive topics we should probably expect some leeway in the 'vigor' of debate... but really... You guys- maybe a private message would be a wize move.

Forum members with more moderate views must feel like they would get stomped on if they joined in.

[doogs]

you misunderstand the mining concept doogs, they take the stuff away then fill the hole in, I an sure that they won't fill it with poo and paper

If that were the case I wouldn't be so apprehensive about the mine being sited in this area. I cannot see a mine removing ALL their waste, no matter their good policies. A few months ago a tailings dam wall failed at the Savage River mine, spilling large amounts of possibly toxic water into the local river system. Since the event I haven't found any news relating to this incident, I would like to know what happened/is happening.
The Tarkine is a remote area and I am quite sceptical about the difference between the environmental intentions and the eventual environmental outcomes of any mine sited in this area.

[Nuts]

Here you go doogs: http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?/we ... iver-mine/
I'm not sure how long it takes to properly investigate the effect of a spill. Could take some time, i'd imagine, done properly..

[doogs]

Here you go doogs: http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?/we ... iver-mine/
I'm not sure how long it takes to properly investigate the effect of a spill. Could take some time, i'd imagine, done properly..

Thanks for that Nuts, I've been trying to keep an eye on this issue but information is very scarse.

[Nuts]

Yeah, it always seems like a battle of the b/s 'ers. I can imagine that business wants to keep any negatives as quiet as possible.

Then again- I was wondering if the tree here IS actually on the lease.. or whether that matters.. :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 6691218865

It seems that these first mines will be the easier/more profitable loads (ie 2yr mine life sounds like scoop and run). May take Many years, if at all, for all the exploration licences to be converted to leases. So much of WA is under exploration licence, many areas will never see a miner. I wouldn't be surprised if here much of the gazetted WHA eg. the country around F'mans, has been surveyed.. hopefully will never see mining but who can say.