Tarkine mining

[maddog]

The Tarkine needs jobs – and environmentalists don't get it:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... egion-jobs

[stepbystep]

Seems to be stating the obvious doesn't it. The title is just a touch skewed, no?

Don't you find it interesting that the government actively promotes the benefits of these short term blue collar jobs, but where are the programs aimed at educating the youth of the area? Increasing school retention rates? Promoting and advancing the causes of new industries? Engaging with the conservation movement for positive outcomes?

Another point I'd like to make is the Smithton and Burnie rallies were multi-issue rallies, they were NOT primarily aimed at the support of mining in the area, much of the crowd was also there to protest the 'locking up' of some of the track network in the APCA, and forestry issues. They deliberatly cast a wide net to get some numbers. I was in Smithton on the day of the last rally and you don't have to be a demographer to understand the people there were for the most part uneducated blue collar types(not that there's anything wrong with that) but as the article points out, when desperate and afraid they will look for the simplest answers.

Like it or not the government is most interested in votes and they know full well, scared, desperate and uneducated people will swallow their lie that the jobs will be there, but as Frenchy points out many of the jobs won't go to that demographic, they will go to educated surveyors, geologists, engineers etc, many of which to the ire of the likes of Ent will come from Hobart or interstate. The flow on affect that will help the surrounding businesses will be boom/bust and in 2 years, square one.

I see unique potential in the NW for high end agriculture such as what the people at Mt Gnomon farm are doing, a good transition industry for blue collar workers, but there is very little political will to make this happen, and very few votes to win.

[sthughes]

I see unique potential in the NW for high end agriculture such as what the people at Mt Gnomon farm are doing, a good transition industry for blue collar workers, but there is very little political will to make this happen, and very few votes to win.

I agree.

Don't you find it interesting that the government actively promotes the benefits of these short term blue collar jobs, but where are the programs aimed at educating the youth of the area? Increasing school retention rates? Promoting and advancing the causes of new industries? Engaging with the conservation movement for positive outcomes?

I agree.
However unfortunately what "the conservation movement" consider positive outcomes (i.e. relocate all Tasmanians away from Tassie/ban all significant development), isn't what the government or general populous considers positive, so mutually acceptable outcomes are rare.

Like it or not the government is most interested in votes and they know full well, scared, desperate and uneducated people will swallow their lie that the jobs will be there, but as Frenchy points out many of the jobs won't go to that demographic, they will go to educated surveyors, geologists, engineers etc, many of which to the ire of the likes of Ent will come from Hobart or interstate.

The current mines use "local" (i.e. Burnie based) surveyors and engineers, as well as Launceston geotechs (there are none on the coast). Why will the new mine/s go interstate instead? The main earth moving contractor I'm aware of on the Shree job uses mostly Circular Head & Waratah Wynyard area "blue collar" workers. I'd call them locals, not mainlanders, not Hobartians and certainly not Indians!

[stepbystep]

Thanks sthughes

I agree.
However unfortunately what "the conservation movement" consider positive outcomes (i.e. relocate all Tasmanians away from Tassie/ban all significant development), isn't what the government or general populous considers positive, so mutually acceptable outcomes are rare.

One of the problems here is moderates within the conservation movement aren't the loudest voices, and I don't think relocating Tasmanians is part of an agenda on any level. I admire organisations like Beyond Zero Emissions and the like that are putting forward positive options and attempting to engage with government, there are many such ENGO's, and they are part of the conservation movement as a whole. Government however for a multitude of reasons stifle good ideas and initiatives that developers could utilise to actually make things happen in a more sustainable fashion. Instead we are left with development being pushed through traditional channels and methods that go no way to progressing things, but that is another issue!

The current mines use "local" (i.e. Burnie based) surveyors and engineers, as well as Launceston geotechs (there are none on the coast). Why will the new mine/s go interstate instead? The main earth moving contractor I'm aware of on the Shree job uses mostly Circular Head & Waratah Wynyard area "blue collar" workers. I'd call them locals, not mainlanders, not Hobartians and certainly not Indians!

That is reassuring and I defer to your industry based knowledge on that. I found Hallu's remarks on Indians as repugnant as Ent's localism(ironically an old green movement policy) and your remarks on aboriginal sites. fwiw.
Despite what some might think I want prosperity for the NW and West Coast, I just have a different concept of what development is.

[Nuts]

The Tarkine needs jobs – and environmentalists don't get it:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... egion-jobs

Good find, surprisingly well written, there are a couple of facts lacking a reference in there but seems (to me) like a balanced article for a couple of locals.
I'd feel better if they used the term 'green movement' .. half the problem right there

[Clusterpod]

Nice opinion piece masquerading as news.

Interesting to note that both authors are twenty-somethings living in Melbourne (though one used to live in Tassie)

The comments section reads like this thread

Blaming the Environmental Movement for the failures of Government is a laugh-riot.

[frenchy_84]

Interesting to note that both authors are twenty-somethings living in Melbourne (though one used to live in Tassie)

I went to school with one of the authors he grew up in Ulverstone went to Uni in Hobart and then like most grads left the state.

[stepbystep]

I went to a presentation at UTAS last night showing in detail the area threatened by the Mt Lindsay mine. This is pristine old growth rainforest and the mine will devastate the area for all time. It's a very large mine at the head of a seam of tungsten and tin that stretches through a vast area of pristine wilderness. If Lindsay goes ahead there would be no stopping the exploitation of the entire seam.
The presentation also showed the link between the approval processes for lower impact mines such as Riley Creek and the subsequent approvals for Mt Lindsay and how various levels of state and federal governments have manipulated the legalities to give the smoothest ride for proponents. The presentation was both sobering and extremely scary.

I was fascinated by the admission of Tony Burke when he ignored the National Heritage Commissions recommendations for listing the area, that it was "too hard" to even define some areas that were no go zones because he knew damn well that some of the areas with highest natural values aligned with the highest payload for the miners, not that national heritage listing in itself can stop a mine approval, it just makes it a bit more of a process, and a bit more expensive for the mining companies. Couldn't have that could we?

It made my sick to the pit of my stomach, I'd rather live as a hobo than take 1 cent off these merchants of death. Depressing.

Oh and any peak-baggers looking to climb Parsons Hood, good luck with that. It's well and truly locked up until they're finished destroying the area. It sure as hell isn't 'the greenies' locking up the place.

Rant over. For now.

[Taurë-rana]

Oh and any peak-baggers looking to climb Parsons Hood, good luck with that. It's well and truly locked up until they're finished destroying the area. It sure as hell isn't 'the greenies' locking up the place.

The amount of Tassie that the greenies have 'locked up', and then only to 4 wheel drivers (I don't necessarily agree with that happening but that's another issue), is miniscule compared to what forestry, mining and the Hydro have shut people out of. Quite apart from just destroying places forever. It's always bugged me that we can get locked out of state owned land. Whose land is it anyway?

[Nuts]

I'd agree much more could be done to allow access to hydro and forestry land for recreation, maybe it's a lockdown in response to trouble from 'greenies' looking for molehills?

You can't be locked out of an area under exploration licence as far as i'm aware? If it's an active lease, it's probably fair enough.

'Merchants of Death'.. huh? Who organised this meeting, Ted Haggard?? It's Business, show me an industry that doesn't try to maximise return or dump the flaky slogans please.

[stepbystep]

I'd agree much more could be done to allow access to hydro and forestry land for recreation, maybe it's a lockdown in response to trouble from 'greenies' looking for molehills?

You can't be locked out of an area under exploration licence as far as i'm aware? If it's an active lease, it's probably fair enough.

'Merchants of Death'.. huh? Who organised this meeting, Ted Haggard?? It's Business, show me an industry that doesn't try to maximise return or dump the flaky slogans please.

My words not theirs nuts. Have a look at the Lindsay proposal and get back to me, happy to discuss with anyone informed.

And no, you're wrong, walkers I know have already been chased out of the Parsons area, for wanting to, walk...

Organised by the TNPA fwiw info came from a UTAS Professor from the faculty of Law, specialising in Environmental Law and interested in positive, progressive outcomes.

[Nuts]

I linked the proposal and impact assessment here earlier... have a vague understanding the extent of the seam and the initial access, do you have more to add there?

There is no doubt any business will continue to push for access to a profitable resource... that's business.

I'll be down there next week and plan to have a bit of a look around going on the mapping and co-ordinates available... In the area looking for some small commitment for a positive alternative/progressive contribution.. can't help thinking that this would be a more believable way for 'green' action. Implement realistic local change (facilitate local business alternatives), put their *&^%$#@! where the mouths are, not comfy courtroom chairs

[stepbystep]

I linked the proposal and impact assessment here earlier... have a vague understanding the extent of the seam and the initial access, do you have more to add there?

There is no doubt any business will continue to push for access to a profitable resource... that's business.

I'll be down there next week and plan to have a bit of a look around going on the mapping and co-ordinates available... In the area looking for some small commitment for a positive alternative/progressive contribution.. can't help thinking that this would be a more believable way for 'green' action. Implement realistic local change (facilitate local business alternatives), put their *&^%$#@! where the mouths are, not comfy courtroom chairs.

If you understood the way the legalities have been manipulated you'd understand the current court action is an act of desperation on behalf of the 'Save the Tarkine' group. I'm a bit busy at the moment, ironically finishing a project all about positive, progressive, multi stakeholder engagement in the APCA. I'll expand later. Good luck accessing the site nuts!

[Nuts]

Good stuff SBS, let's have it then! We plan to get out to the coast, it's been some years for me.

So, what next, if indeed it is desperation. An amended Tarkine boundary, compromise?

Just to be clear, I didn't mention accessing 'the site'. Parsons/ Lindsay, well no, it doesn't make much sense to allow walkers on or through an active tenement.. but surely only access/management roads should be restricted outside the actual lease.

[Hallu]

Too bad we can't even see this pristine section before it's destroyed...

[tastrax]

Of course you can see it - just a bit of off track walking will get you there any time you like.

[Nuts]

Well, yeah, not Mt Lindsay but then I'm guessing Tony Burke was talking about areas other than Lindsay?
Who to ask in Hydro ... As far as the company goes (according to DIER) you apparently Do need their permission (as well as hydro) to access any area under exploration licence (as well as the lease itself).

So... unless there is an exploration licence? In the case of just wanting to climb Parsons Hood.. unless Hydro have other reasons to close roads...
the restriction Should only apply to the lease area itself:

Screen Shot 2013-10-11 at 8.42.20 PM.png (182.68 KiB) Viewed 10267 times

One would reasonably think?

[geoskid]

I'm a bit busy at the moment, ironically finishing a project all about positive, progressive, multi stakeholder engagement in the APCA. I'll expand later.

Good on ya Dan. I look forward to your further expansion. I hope what you are doing becomes highly visible - I think it is what is required. A vision, leadership.
Mark

Edit - wrong quote and superfluous ending

Last edited by geoskid on Sun 13 Oct, 2013 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[pazzar]

Well, yeah, not Mt Lindsay but then I'm guessing Tony Burke was talking about areas other than Lindsay?
Who to ask in Hydro ... As far as the company goes (according to DIER) you apparently Do need their permission (as well as hydro) to access any area under exploration licence (as well as the lease itself).

So... unless there is an exploration licence? In the case of just wanting to climb Parsons Hood.. unless Hydro have other reasons to close roads...
the restriction Should only apply to the lease area itself:

The attachment Screen Shot 2013-10-11 at 8.42.20 PM.png is no longer available

One would reasonably think?

There are core sites almost the whole way up Parsons Hood. I suspect Venture have a contract giving them the right to close the road. There is a helipad and water tank almost on the summit, and several hundred metres of hose pipe. I don't know why anyone would want to climb Parsons Hood, having climbed it, there is nothing to see as far as panoramic views go. The walk through the rainforest is lovely though.

Sign at the Parsons Hood road gate

Tank near the top of Parsons Hood

[Nuts]

Thanks pazzar, no I don't have any particular urge to climb myself, especially not with a long walk in.

[pazzar]

It's not particularly long if you can sneak up the road. I was fortunate in that there was a protest on the bare hills near Mt Lindsay, and it was over a year ago now, I suspect it is harder to get up there now.

[Nuts]

Ah, right. Thanks, I just sent a pm before reading here (lol)

[Nuts]

Probably useful public info too.
Back to the broader topic, I found this (no doubt many have read) a good overview:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-06/m ... ne/4863892

[stepbystep]

Here's a look at the area and scale of the 2 proposed Mt Lindsay pits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0LAWIFuryc

Shree's Nelson River mine opened yesterday, here's the location and it's proximity to one of the world's most pristine fisheries...

[photohiker]

Oh yea, they'll put that back the way they found it, won't they?

Comments on the youtube are highly intelligent.

[RichB]

Im curious as to when the Indians will arrive on 457 visas to work for this Indian company Shree..How many Tasmanians will be employed in their mines..Bryan Green is a parasite..He cares nothing for the people of Tasmania..He is another Govt whore who will sell himself for money..He cares nothing for the environment or its wildlife..watch out people of Tasmania..Dangerous times are upon us..

[corvus]

RichB,
Read all of your post and not one with advice or help, just green rants and what a juvenile comment that 457 mine workers on the Shree Mine would all be Indian ,is that the best you can now come up with ? (who owns the Queenstown Mine) as far as I could see most Miners were non Indian last time I was down there but to each their own and I guess there may be jobs available at this new Mine if you are qualified
regards
corvus

[stepbystep]

RichB,
Read all of your post and not one with advice or help, just green rants and what a juvenile comment that 457 mine workers on the Shree Mine would all be Indian ,is that the best you can now come up with ? (who owns the Queenstown Mine) as far as I could see most Miners were non Indian last time I was down there but to each their own and I guess there may be jobs available at this new Mine if you are qualified
regards
corvus

I agree Corvus. I don't like the tone of RichB's post. It's not helpful. Of course however many contractors for this and subsequent mines will be FIFO. The bigger the mine the more of a FIFO village will be created.

I'm most interested in the damage that will be done to potential long term industry jobs. Not to mention the damage to the environment.

Any comment re Mt Lindsay Corvus? Or is it all about the false promise of jobs to the NW Coast illiterate? Have you looked at the proposal? Do you know the area? If not why comment?

[corvus]

sbs,
No comment re Mt Lindsay at this point in time (will do more research) however I do take an exception to your comment " Or is it all about the false promise of jobs to the NW Coast illiterate? " arrogance is I believe totally uncalled for especially from those privileged to be employed full time (so glad I retired well prepared) and not job hunting.
corvus

[stepbystep]

sbs,
No comment re Mt Lindsay at this point in time (will do more research) however I do take an exception to your comment " Or is it all about the false promise of jobs to the NW Coast illiterate? " arrogance is I believe totally uncalled for especially from those privileged to be employed full time (so glad I retired well prepared) and not job hunting.
corvus

Corvus I'm only employed because I make it so. Self employment = no holiday pay, no sickies, no super etc etc and yet I make sacrifices for the things I believe in. You are defending companies that do and will continue to exploit the people you say you care about....think a bit deeper please. I do care.