Tarkine mining

[Nuts]

That wasn't the intent of my post- patronising. I have no idea of your personal involvement. It was yet another suggestion so tailored pictures or a mysterious video were not once again gazumped by the first person taking an interest... whatever their source.

Patronising? I consider spamming facebook friends with endless sloganism 'patronising'. I consider lambasting a group of concerned people on a bushwalking forum with such propaganda 'patronising' unless posters are interested in discussion. It should be expected that members here probably know exactly what pristine is. That some could care less is their want, that others could care less about what it would take to save d tarkine (or the next environmental issue) is their want (IMO). All personal choices, no commitment really necessary but it would be nice.

Away from the tracks themselves, which hold no inherent attraction for me, (though I find it curious with that attitude how such things (tourist trails) will be part of the answer for the future..) these Parks- CM/Walls very much are wilderness Not the first time iv'e heard that though, 'my precious Overland Track' Lol! What arrogance concludes that the Tarkine may not also be precious. Iv'e followed the links, read through the planning documents, recently visited Mt Lindsay. IMO you'd be better off saddling your horse to a longer term view (by choice not just to suit) but continue to do as you will. Democracy allows it.. well, except for attempts to curb the professional campaigner, about time that was sorted out (so long as such law is used for the stated purpose).

On behalf of an unblinkered future for conservation I will support the continued asking of questions of both sides. That is all we have. Thwart democracy with 'activism' and what else to expect? All it would take is for someone, some group on behalf of mainstream conservation (and necessary attitudes) to cut the crap and we might eventually get a few more locals on board, sometime in some idealistic future.. repair the damage that is being done and drag conservation further into the mainstream than has been possible.

I don't mean cut the crap that this 'Tarkine' is worth saving, any such publicly owned habitat should be considered precious.. I mean I wish those with a more extreme view cut the disingenuous campaigning for something more in tune with the mainstream. Of course this is Your choice, you'll be met (and have been met) with opinions far more distasteful than mine and at the opposite pole.

Go Well

Last edited by Nuts on Mon 16 Dec, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[stepbystep]

As ever nuts your post is difficult to decipher what it is you are getting at. I'd suggest if you are being spammed on social media you block or defriend those buggers pronto!
Tailored pictures? Mysterious video? What the hell are you on about? Nothing tailored about the pictures I've posted and the video will be online shortly as I stated...

I see a number of statements, most particularly your suggestion of what i should do with my horse that I take issue with. Long term view lol, yes that mine's money will last forever won't it!! Lets agree to disagree then huh?
There's a whole bunch of other stuff in your post I just can't be bothered responding to, much like your PM.

How about you state your opinion rather than the faux fence sitting attempt. Read the Mt Lindsay stuff huh? Informed with all the facts? What say you about that then? Long term in mind of course.

I'm glad you visited the area recently, I hope you enjoyed it and encourage others to do so. I'll be returning in February and April and will undoubtedly see it through different eyes to yourself, but then again I've been going there quite a lot.

The thing about wilderness is you can't visit it easily, or quickly. You can touch the edges but the beating heart is protected, as it should be. Sorry, bit emotive that last sentence...

Meh!

[Nuts]

{off topic - removed by admin}

Last edited by Nuts on Mon 16 Dec, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[taswegian]

Most discussions about this post end with jobs.
The Tarkine and jobs seem intrinsically linked, mixed but not in a homogenous way.
Little doubt we need jobs. Tasmanian’s employment being at about 92.1%
“The unemployment rate in Tasmania was estimated to be 7.9% in November 2013, down 0.1 of a percentage point from the previous month.
The unemployment rate was 0.8% points higher than in November 2012 and 2.1% points higher than the national unemployment rate of 5.8%”
http://www.treasury.tas.gov.au/domino/dtf/dtf.nsf/LookupFiles/Labour-Force.pdf/$file/Labour-Force.pdf

So while ‘jobs’ remain the only focus and not what alternatives we have, then all the ‘Tarkine’s’ of this world are doomed.
There appears little desire to seek those alternatives. And not ones that just pass the time of day and give relief to a few for a short period all to see the cycle start again.

Many here (and elsewhere) go to great pains to wax eloquent about the beauty of the many gorgeous photos (places) that adorn this site.
I understand the Mark Webber challenge was changed to include the iconic areas we know so well.
The contestants were in awe of those beautiful places they went through. Adam Brooks claimed (can’t find the link) to having involvement in this. Just a few excerpts from some sources.
Not only will the 2013 course push competitors to the edge, it will take us to the very edge of some incredible wilderness areas in Tasmania’s wild west.
Spectacular is not descriptive enough to describe the Cradle Mountain area and on day 2 teams will cover it from bottom to top. Expect to some awes inspiring running, incredible kayaking and tantalising mountain biking as you explore the tracks, trails and secrets of this World Heritage Wilderness Area.
https://markwebbertasmaniachallenge.com/a-preview-of-the-2013-SWMTChallenge-course
Arguments could rage ‘till the cows come home, but the facts are most of these places exist as such today because of the involvement of people that saw their worth and made a conscious decision to set them aside for us and those yet to come.

Many years ago I started my forays into the great outdoors. I’d immerse myself into that wonderful part of Tasmania affectionately known to many as ‘The Walls’ (Walls of Jerusalem National Park). Back then I was free to roam for days often not seeing a single soul. Alone, with just the stars as my covering at night and the howls and screeches of the Devils to remind one of our unique animals now in decline.
These days one can’t do either. The overcrowded Walls is just one of many such areas.

We need room to expand on this earth. But just as we need additional room to lay down our new abodes we also need additional room to ease the strain on overcrowded recreational areas.
It can be rightly argued that could be an exaggeration at the moment, but fast forward 10? 50 years and what would those prized and overcrowded areas look like then? And would (will) there be alternatives by then?

Expressions abound for Tasmania, its people and its plight.
Tasmania is not just an island. It is a collection of islands and yet all smaller islands depend on its largest island that in turn rely on others for support.
Anyone that has spent more than a few weeks on Flinders or King Island know the additional issues that style of living embrace.
And yet we are supposed to be equal to the rest of Australia when it comes to dependency or is it independency?
I rub shoulders with many mainlanders that come here for our way of life, for our beautiful jewels that abound and which together make Tasmania what it is. Unique, an island(s) of many moods, rich in folklore but equally rich and diverse in its natural wonders.
Just 15km from me there is a special part of the Don River of a landscape I have never seen anywhere else. From the river outwards the west valley sides are clad in all manner of rainforest species. The east valley sides are dry gum forest. It is unspoilt beauty at its best, surrounded by farms, gravel pits and degraded forest land.
I tussled with council and got approval for a section to be cut off and given over to conservation whilst on the other side the owner was battling the authorities on logging issues. Thankfully out of the valley sides, but just.
That excercise was very rewarding and encouraging and gave me hope that people were prepared to put their money into action.

Many, most will never see ‘The Tarkine’ and its wonders, and also never earn a crust from any part of it. They will be divorced of any empathy or involvement in such emotive issues a few are prepared to stand up for.
Today’s lifestyle is so artificial in so many ways.
Recreation for many is an hour at the gym, or a jog along smoggy noisy streets at lunch or before work.
The Tarkine(s) are hostile to their way of living, so what's the fuss about?

Jobs! Are there alternatives? Yes and No!
The yes would require capital and a willingness to see change. But then doesn’t any new venture require that? Even mining?
The No may require no other capital than has perhaps already been earmarked for this or that development.

Is it worth arguing for? Was Cradle Mt worth the argument? Or Franklin River or....?

I’m a firm believer we can have alternatives, in fact to prosper we need alternatives.
Sadly I’m not confident too many in high places want to embrace that sort of thinking.

[Taurë-rana]

Clarence,
we'd all like to have as much money as you apparently do

It is pretty woeful when people get personal and make presumptive statements about other people's situations (about which they know nothing) rather than keeping to the facts.

Not very mature or constructive Tuare-rana.

Clarence

Hmm, yes well, fair call, I was annoyed about you calling Tasmania a parasite and assumed that you were a wealthy mainlander paying lots of tax and therefore unhappy about Tasmania getting money from your taxes. It didn't occur to me that a Tasmanian would have that attitude, and as a Tasmanian I took it personally. I agree that it wasn't helpful though.

[Nuts]

The successive collapse of industries is not initiated in the north west. A much better job could have been done to phase in alternatives along the way.

Love the small victories of local action tw. Good on you!

For a while I was involved in conservation projects on a number of NW farms. One of the early projects was on a large cattle property near Hawley. The project brief looked interesting. Riparian conservation fencing/ Green & Gold Bellfrog habitat. I'd never seen a Bellfrog, I had some idea they were rare and really couldn't get there quick enough! As our van crawled on through cow paddocks, over gentle rolling hills I started to think we had taken a wrong turn. Off in the distance a ute was parked on a rise so we made our way over. Here, in a 'ditch', muddy along it's length from cow churnings was the 'habitat'.

A couple of scrawny bushes, a short swampy mud wallow and a 'ditch'.

I wandered down, the memory is vivid. Here they were! the swamp was leaping with them, all sizes of fat happy looking frogs! Plopping and scrambling into deep hoof holes or through grass to a few muddy puddles. I was amazed! Wow, what a great job, helping out these little critters, fencing in what would be given generously to be their home. What was most inspiring was that here was someone who cared and who had made the effort to seek out our help.

I had a lot of hope that this grass roots level conservation would grow. Not by trying to force it from a distance, but responding in a manner of what 'we can do for them'. Same for those made redundant from local primary industry, it would have been much better a transition to greener alternates of the same industries than expect a complete lifestyle change (all the while, so many buying cheaper imported products without a second thought).

So this hasn't happened and wont happen in time to put 'jobs' in their proper perspective for this area. In come those who will be prepared to try anything at any cost, lump the illiterate in together. Have no 'vision' other than conflict and exaggeration. Bugger them.

For those who say the Shree site is/was simply buttongrass/teatree, you are wrong.

Who? The mayor of circular head?, he could be a bushwalker I guess.

[clarence]

Hmm, yes well, fair call, I was annoyed about you calling Tasmania a parasite and assumed that you were a wealthy mainlander paying lots of tax and therefore unhappy about Tasmania getting money from your taxes. It didn't occur to me that a Tasmanian would have that attitude, and as a Tasmanian I took it personally. I agree that it wasn't helpful though.

Thanks. It was not a comment I intended to be taken personally.

Clarence

[maddog]

An interesting piece in the Conversation:

The mining industry and conservationists are typically understood as adversaries, but they could become allies. Partnerships between miners and conservationists could bring about real improvements to the country’s conservation record. This demands fresh thinking. The first step is to challenge the orthodox assumption that mining companies should attempt to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

http://theconversation.com/restoration- ... ines-21236

[Nuts]

*NOTABLY the Tarkine is situated in the Federal Electorate of BRADDON which is distinguished by having the lowest proportion of residents who completed high school of any electorate in Australia (SOURCE CRIKEY)

CRIKEY?? LoL

but we are also the brokest, the smart ones are off finishing school and getting edukated... but we will pik your spuds?

It's really not funny, some of the facts are there (about half I reckon?) but strewth.. some scary people around! http://www.tarkine.com.au
(ps. don't pick on me, i'm not on your side but not on 'theirs' either..)

That is an interesting concept maddog. Better to have both but there's only so much blood to be had from a stone I guess.

[photohiker]

Nut's why has your name changed colour?

Crikey is a popular opinion website...

[Nuts]

So it has, it's a deeper green : )

I would have thought going to the source would be a 'source'?

[Nuts]

I mean it appears to be a true statement (the part used), when you look at the last census data for our local electorate:

Screen Shot 2013-12-17 at 2.14.51 PM.png (29.45 KiB) Viewed 10270 times

Fair enough. They are also more likely to have been born where they live.., of no particular religious conviction.., work longer hours than other Tasmanians.. what are we rallying against though.. ah, yes, education!

Argh! I can only see questions looking at that graph.. i'm sure the answers are here:

http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census ... tat/CED602

but iv'e already spent ten minutes and for what point, to make sure the data is right before then accepting the leap in thinking that would blame them (personally) for the possible demise of the tarkine? Surely when it came to the election, and comes to politics the striking swing against a reasonably strong green representative indicated a previously healthy interest in (what would be considered locally) 'green' issues? argh!

[sthughes]

Realistically that isn't surprising. The jobs for the highly educated just don't exist here in Braddon. It doesn't mean we are stupid, just that the job opportunities don't exist here. Most of my friends from high school went and got degrees, but I can only think of two who found jobs in Braddon thereafter, both in government jobs. Many (perhaps most) now live interstate (mostly in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth). It's known locally as the "brain drain" and it's a big problem.

[Nuts]

Is it a big problem? I'd say most people would agree it exists but they obviously aren't needed for industry (futuristic or traditional) in the north west. I think that graph may effectively show the 'brain-drain', including changing electorates for uni?

Being generated from the census it simply counts numbers at that time so those stats don't show how large a percentage finish, just how many were in secondary school.

Maybe with most of the smarter ones gone those left are indeed 'dumber' or more easy to manipulate as i think is closer to the point of them getting a mention. Which in turn (put to this use) explains them attending rallies, signing petitions, ultimately not voting green? etc etc..

[stepbystep]

Yes it is a big problem, it lies at the core of the problems for the NW.

And so at page 21 of this thread we come full circle.

The NW needs new, progressive industries. This requires investment in both industry reform and education reform. This requires political will which will invariably shock the current populace. So much so any political party that attempts the reform will end up being ejected from government based on the scare tactics of the other side of politics. It's a highly frustrating system. It'd be marvelous if we had politicians that actually engaged in bi-partisanship for the greater good....

As ever Richard your highly articulate and thoughtful post is greatly appreciated.

[Nuts]

So to fix the problems in the North West we need solutions that even the less dumb are not capable of making or living with elsewhere. What's more for the issue at hand (which probably wouldn't be an issue if they had) these decisions needed to happen yesterday.

Yes, frustrating, imagine living in their shoes. Having people point out the obvious, even (Lol)- blame Them! You need more than a few weeks I think SBS.

[stepbystep]

Oh and as promised here's some visual eye candy from The Tarkine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iB1p8Vr1gs

[stepbystep]

Yes, frustrating, imagine living in their shoes. Having people point out the obvious, even (Lol)- blame Them! You need more than a few weeks I think SBS.

Who's blaming the locals? Certainly not me!

Few weeks? What are you on about?

[Nuts]

Nice eye candy. At the risk of an angry response, can you give an indication of where the footage was taken. All in the Tarkine? Which areas?

That's nice that you don't prescribe to the point of view on that particular blog site..
It's good to see such an progressive opinion from someone who 'knows the area extremely well'.

[gayet]

gorgeous!

Thank you.

I even recognise some of it. At least I think I do. Some of the petroglyphs(?) and the dunes.

[Nuts]

Any comment re Mt Lindsay Corvus? Or is it all about the false promise of jobs to the NW Coast illiterate? Have you looked at the proposal? Do you know the area? If not why comment?

yeah, ok, so here we are blaming the ministers involved, not Corvus's mindset or the illiterate themselves (it is a bit vague).

[stepbystep]

Yes it's all in The Tarkine. From the Pieman to Pemenghana, the coastal strip that will without doubt be polluted eventually and the deep forest.

The aerials are over areas Venture call 'The Province of Tin'. That's what the end game is to get into that country.

Worth fighting for???

Thanks Gaye, more to come in coming months

[MickyB]

Thanks for sharing stepbystep. It's stunning.

Definitely worth trying to preserve and protect from mining and logging.

[gayet]

....., more to come in coming months

If you need someone to hold the spare lens I'll volunteer!

[stepbystep]

Any comment re Mt Lindsay Corvus? Or is it all about the false promise of jobs to the NW Coast illiterate? Have you looked at the proposal? Do you know the area? If not why comment?

yeah, ok, so here we are blaming the ministers involved, not Corvus's mindset or the illiterate themselves (it is a bit vague).

Very happy to blame the mindset of those such as Corvus who make Ill informed comments, as for the poorly educated in the NW a succession of education ministers can put their hands up for failing to address the problem in any meaningful way.

I thought vague was your schtick nuts.

Gaye anyone that wants to help in any way is most welcome.

[Nuts]

respectful pause..

Worth fighting for???

Of course!!

--------

It's the weapons I get stuck on. I just can't picture a world where places (wild places, existing parks, rural corridors, unique habitats, the earth itself..) are protected for 'ever' while ever there is anything resembling a cycle of conflict.

[photohiker]

Yes it's all in The Tarkine. From the Pieman to Pemenghana, the coastal strip that will without doubt be polluted eventually and the deep forest.

The aerials are over areas Venture call 'The Province of Tin'. That's what the end game is to get into that country.

Worth fighting for???

Thanks Gaye, more to come in coming months

Very nice video Dan, well done!

Ok, where is Pemenghana? I I don't think I've heard that before... Google search for it only returns this thread!

[stepbystep]

Some very humble beginnings Michael. Much more to come next year.

Preminghana is aboriginal land north of Marrawah, known by most as Mt Cameron West. You must have permission to enter the property. It contains considerable aboriginal archaeology.
The entire Tarkine coast is dotted with significant sites. In the video are images of a hut depression, a midden, a seal hide and several petroglyphs.

http://www.environment.gov.au/indigenou ... ghana.html

[Nuts]

Very happy to blame the mindset of those such as Corvus who make Ill informed comments, as for the poorly educated in the NW a succession of education ministers can put their hands up for failing to address the problem in any meaningful way.

I thought vague was your schtick nuts.

What sort of meaningful way? Can we blame ministers (education or otherwise) for problems here, in the north west? Surely one can't so easily separate them from their constituents?

There's not 100,000 people in the Braddon electorate. Do we need more people? Obviously there are enough employees for existing industries. what industries do we have in mind for these people that will need a higher percentage of uni grads? Or we just want education enough for them to develop a world view closer to 'ours'

______

Yes, I can be a bit 'vague' in forming sentences. Sentences must have been year 10?
I see you misunderstood the intent of me saying i'd read proposals, followed links, at least visited Mt. Lindsay.. these are the things you said we should do yet you seem to have just taken my comment as an affront to your own efforts Not for the first time! Is there anything else to clear up?

[photohiker]

Some very humble beginnings Michael. Much more to come next year.

Preminghana is aboriginal land north of Marrawah, known by most as Mt Cameron West. You must have permission to enter the property. It contains considerable aboriginal archaeology.
The entire Tarkine coast is dotted with significant sites. In the video are images of a hut depression, a midden, a seal hide and several petroglyphs.

http://www.environment.gov.au/indigenou ... ghana.html

Aha. The spelling diverted my search!

Interesting stuff, those Petroglyphs. The ones at Preminghana found on google images are amazing. We recently saw many rock carvings in the Flinders Ranges, some quite similar, but not as condensed. The history of the Flinders carvings is lost, the earliest recorded and subsequent interactions suggest the local Aborigines at the time were unaware of the origins or who carved them.

Look forward to your further productions.