What DOES it cost?!

[aloftas]

So, I thought I would capitalize on both my popularity and the current outrage that I actually had the audacity to suggest that it would cost between $1000 and $2000 to ADEQUATELY prepare for something say like the OLT.
I have taken this gear list off the Parks website. I have decided to provide a range of costs from RRP to sale for each item. Please note that as it says a 4 season tent is required, I will annotate costs for same. Similarly with the sleeping bag, I see it is to be rated -10c. I can see the bank balance dwindling already.

So. How to do this fairly?

I think, I will use the websites of say macpac and Kathmandu, as these are the jackets I see the most of, with good old Anaconda as the "lower end" retailer.
I will assume a minimum packsize of 65 litres, although I note the cavernous Cascade 90 is on sale at $350...

So...lets go shopping.

Aand because I am such a nice fella, I will pull a random figure from Paddy Pallin and Mountain Designs, so they don't feel I am being elitist.

pack (with comfortable shoulder, hip and chest straps )
http://www.macpac.com.au/packs/packs-trek (looks like between $350 and the sky there)
http://www.kathmandu.com.au/packs-and-b ... offset=234 Looks like a couple of hundred will buy a back therapy session there. http://www.anacondastores.com/camping-h ... king-packs between $130 or so and say $380...
http://www.paddypallin.com.au/equipment ... packs.html Take your pick, between $300 and Everest, but with a free hydration bladder.

pack liner (to keep everything dry)

http://www.macpac.com.au/catalogsearch/ ... pack+liner between $5 for the Unitarian proletariat model and $50ish
http://gear.kathmandu.com.au/search#w=pack%20liner $5.98 for club members, similar to the cheapie above.
http://www.paddypallin.com.au/sea-to-su ... liner.html $41.95 for a snazzy s2s which I note is well regarded here...

tent* (4 season with inner and outer layer) plus short lengths of cord/rope to help secure tent to tent platforms

This^ will dent the pocket 4 seasons, means, a bath tub floor, a fly, and possibly some grams. Eat those weetbix guys, this could hurt.
http://www.macpac.com.au/equipment/tent ... king-tents Ouch $547 or so...looks like I will be eating moths out there...mmm yum...
http://www.kathmandu.com.au/camping/ten ... ffset=1040 $359 and up
http://www.paddypallin.com.au/equipment ... season=793 $600 and upwards...its a good thing I will be able to save on my sleeping bag...Im gonna go down the shed and siliconize a spud bag....

sleeping bag (to -10°C) kept dry

It depends, doesn't it, whether the minus 10 is comfort, or extreme.





sleeping bag inner-sheet s2s reactors are about $65 on special

sleeping mat I see the Neo Air si about $250 or so... although the die hard bushwalker should be able to sleep on his socks.

waterproof coat (with hood) Will it wet out or wont it?
waterproof over-trousers
trekking pole(s)
walking boots (sturdy, with good ankle support)
hiking socks
gaiters (protection from snakes, mud, prickly bushes)
thermal long-sleeve top and long johns/bottoms
walking clothes (lightweight, quick dry shorts/trousers, shirt, fleece jacket – not cotton or denim)
camp clothes (kept dry) for evenings
camp shoes (eg crocs, thongs)
beanie
gloves
sun hat
bathers/swim suit
sunglasses
sunscreen
toilet trowel
toilet paper
toiletries
ear plugs (snorers can be very loud)
antibacterial hand gel
fuel stove and fuel**
waterproof matches (in a waterproof container)
food (lightweight, nutritious, remove excess packaging)
cooking pot(s) cooking utensils
(knife, fork, spoon, mug, plate or bowl) scourer (for washing dishes)
water bottles (2 -3 litres)
water filter or purification tablets
Overland Track map
compass
PLB (personal locator beacon)
GPS Satellite phone (mobile phone reception is unreliable)
first aid kit
torch and spare batteries
pocket knife
whistle
day pack (for side trips)
camera
binoculars
books/field guides
cards/games notebook, pencil personal identification
FIRST AID KIT ITEMS Each walking group should carry at least one comprehensive first aid kit. emergency space blanket (for hypothermia) pressure bandages (for sprains/strains, snakebite) non-stick gauze dressings (for grazes/cuts) triangular bandage (for slings) butterfly clips (to close deep wounds) elastoplast (to secure dressings, prevent blisters etc) bandaids (for minor blisters and cuts) blister pack (for serious blisters) antiseptic cream insect repellent (leeches, mosquitoes, march flies) safety pins scissors tweezers medications (eg pain relief, anti-inflammatory, antihistamine, gastrostop)



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LOL



So, I can see that it could be done on the cheap, but I will say that those that do attempot it and get caught out, deserve every bit of ridicule they are lambasted with.


Why should search and rescue go out of their way to enact an extraction of somebody who over analysed and oversimplified what is, a potential deadly situation.

have a nice day folks.

[wayno]

this is all assuming people are using new gear,
can save a lot with second hand gear and the chain stores regularly have sales on, theres little need to pay RRP unless you're very impatient and stuck on a particular brand. should save at least 40$ to 60% at sales.
you don't have to have the more expensive brands to be able to go bushwalking, just gear that does the job... a site like torpedo7 sells cheaper brands that will do the job

[MickyB]

So, I thought I would capitalize on both my popularity and the current outrage that I actually had the audacity to suggest that it would cost between $1000 and $2000 to ADEQUATELY prepare for something say like the OLT.

That was not your original argument.

Off Topic (who me?)....that $2 grand wouldn't even go close to covering most bushwalkers gear...

[GPSGuided]

How about start with a list for a basic day walk? Wouldn't that be the base for 'bushwalks'? OLT is pretty advanced in the scheme of things. Further, Kathmandu is not the base reference, try Kmart, Aldi, Rays or even Vinnies.

[wayno]

don't be sucked into thinking you have to use specific brands of a specific quality... quality gives you a nicer product, it should last longer and perform a bit better or maybe a lot better. but you can still get cheaper stuff that will suffice for your walking...

[DanShell]

When we first started we used the lower end of the market as far as gear goes, so for one person I doubt we spent much over $5-700. Could we have done the OLT using that gear?? Hmm we could have and given good weather would have easily got away with it but realistically no, the gear was not quite up to par given the potential for cold and wet conditions. But I am sure plenty do.

Now i have some really nice gear that has been purchased in a variety of ways (used, new, traded) etc. I admit I am a bit of a bargain hunter. But a quick calculation would have me possibly closer to the $2000 mark. Had I paid full retail and bought all my gear new it would certainly be over that. However I could do it for less than half that if I was to buy lower end of the market gear and know what I know now. Sure it would be a lot heavier and the specs would possibly not quite stack up but I could do it and walk the OLT.

[biggbird]

I have apparently missed the original discussion/argument, so apologies for that, but I'm not quite sure what the point is?

Most people here who walk a lot have probably spent $2k+ on their gear (I know I have!), but they are also presumably people who walk, or plan to walk, regularly, and hence are more likely to buy expensive/fancy/good gear. If you're just doing the OLT as a once off, chances are you will beg, borrow and steal a whole bunch of stuff to save you from having to buy everything, making it much cheaper. And, as others have said, you can get by with cheaper stuff, it is just usually heavier, less convenient or less durable.

FWIW, the gear I would take to do the OLT would be:

Sleeping bag - $400
Mat - $200
Pack - $400
Tent - $350
Boots - $400
Jacket - $350
PLB - $200
Gaiters - $70
Trangia - Hand-me-down
Then add in assorted other clothes + food + electronic goodies (never go without the kindle!) and it probably comes to around 2.5k. But this is for a Hilleberg tent, a reasonable quality Macpac sleeping bag, a One-Planet pack, heavy duty Scarpa boots, a Mont Tempest raincoat, an Exped Downmat, a Rab Neutrino down jacket... None of it is cheap gear, and I certainly would be confident doing the OLT with less expensive stuff if I had to, or could borrow 90% of the stuff required from friends/family. Bushwalking can be expensive, but it certainly doesn't have to be prohibitively so.

[icefest]

Pretty sure I did the olt my first time in winter on less than 2k.

Pack: 2nd hand Macpac 200$
Tent: hired winter tent 30$
Hired snowshoes 30$
Sleeping bag marmot 250$
Mat 1980s thermarest 50$
Stove old whisperlite 50$ (but could be done with method stove)
Boots cheapest from paddy 200$
Waterproofs (not sure anymore) just get some at the snowgum outlet store for 250 for both.
Rest of clothes were stuff I had already like 3 polar fleece jumpers.
Pots were 20 year old aluminum ones.
Epirb hire from parks.
Map 30$

Total about 1700.

But that's for a winter walk.
And my pack was really heavy.

[Son of a Beach]

You can get brand new gear that is cheap and robust enough to do serious walking. The trouble is that its generally quite heavy.

I started off using cheapish gear and it lasted many walks for many years. Eg, I used a $90 tent (circa late 1980's) for many years. It was a great tent. Now I have a tent that is probably not any stronger, but it's a lot lighter. My wet-weather clothing used to be a completely non-breathable but rather cheap Japara when I started walking. Perfectly adequate, but heavy and hot. Now I use a much lighter gortex jacket. Probably not as tough, but much lighter and much more comfortable. Also much more expensive!

I would guess that my gear would have been worth about ~$600 without the sleeping bag. I started out with a top quality very expensive sleeping bag given to me as a gift (it has also recently been retired). All my major items (sleeping bag, tent, pack, footwear) were durable and decent quality, but all relatively cheap compared to what I use now. The main difference is that the gear I use now is lighter AND more expensive.

As they say: Cheap, tough/durable, light weight. Pick any two!
(whoever "they" are)

Last edited by Son of a Beach on Thu 06 Aug, 2015 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Lizzy]

I did the OLT 20 years ago when I was a poor uni student- we did it in summer and had a mix of weather (no snow). Now I would be in the more expensive, lighter category but back then I survived fine with;

pack: cheap bag that lasted until I upgraded to a nice big Macpac. Estimate about $100
Sleeping: cheap down bag - I guess around $100 (could have been a bit warmer!)
I wore my Dads work bright yellow over pants and rain jacket- definitely not breathable but did the job (free)
mat: closed cell foam
stove & cooking: army hexamine stove and dixies from cadets days
Clothing: polypropylene thermals, wool jumper and just old clothes
boots: pair of cheapest hi-tech
First aid: bits and pieces from around the house
Water bottles: soft drink bottles
no PLB, phone, GPS back then
Waterproof liners: garbage bags
My hiking buddy did buy a quality tent but for our walks around NSW we used an army hootchie and ground cloth.

So yes it is nice to have fancy and often lighter gear but you really do not NEED to spend a fortune to get started. This site is great for picking up some cheaper, often lightly used gear and also for moving on gear that you may not want

[RichB]

Just purchase it all online..will be much cheaper than buying here...

[pazzar]

Just purchase it all online..will be much cheaper than buying here...

Not necessarily. With the current exchange rates, gear is quite affordable in Australia. And unless you know exactly what you are after, online is very risky. I want my boots, packs, coats to fit me properly.

[GPSGuided]

We are in a transition period I suspect until the distributors start to adjust their RRP to reflect our current FX rate.

[sim1oz]

Yes, I have been wondering when the prices are going to start going up and cursing that I didn't buy more a couple of years ago... I brought back a full case of snow gear last year and the price was already feeling like less of a bargain. Now my overseas shopping is for gear I can't actually get here at all... and any bargains I can still find.

Back to OP, we started on day walks in our regular clothes (sneakers, trackpants, leggings, etc). so no cost at all. OK, even cotton t-shirts, but we didn't walk if the weather forecast wasn't good. If people start overnighters in good weather and to relatively safe, accessible places then the cheap gear would suffice. Once we started on overnight trips we built up slowly buying lightweight gear but not necessarily the most expensive. For example, Tarptents are very reasonably priced compared to buying a lightweight tent in Australia. Having said that, I'm fairly certain our 3-season gear would easily be $2k between the two of us and our winter gear - well, we have a Hilleberg tent so enough said.

[corvus]

Like many I started out with cheap (in my case ex WW2 stuff) did me throughout a good few years in all seasons in Scotland have gone through many many updates since then (bees knees Oiled Japara for an example ) moving on and experiencing a good deal of discomfort in all Seasons I decided to get the the best gear for my budget and over the years have built up to what I consider suitable for any if not all of my walks and replacement of my basic needed portable items, value(if they were stolen) would be in excess of at least $1500.00

[aloftas]

So, let me count the ways...

Thanks folks too, btw, for the civil and honest replies.

I guess I have trodden the well worn path of the poor man paying twice, however it is a good learning curve albeit an expensive one.

I have managed to accrue a nice selection of gear, including two 4 season Macpac Tents (Plateau and Minaret) a nice OR Goretex poled bivy and an Eureka Solitaire tent/bivy which I am looking forward to trying out.

Similarly, I have 4 sleeping bags, the Macpac Blizzard which is rated to -40 and I have slept under in bliss ever since I bought it, and the trusty Kathmandu Navigator, alongside a Denali Down bag and the Mountain Equipment (UK) which I bought online (similarly -40 but just a tad too small)

I purchased a katmandu Vardo backpack, but have replaced it with a Deuter Quantum which whist heavy, appears robust and has good access. I also have a Macpac Amp 40 which I hope to be able to employ with the Bivy for lightweight endeavours.

I lashed out and spent a bit on a Thermarst neoaire but am concerned about the puncture aspect, but I hope it will be ok and am coupling that with a s2s imflatable pillow. I also have another thermarst foam mat and a denali mat, again, for the luxury of choice.

Boots; I just lashed out on a pair of Zamberlan Sella which I was happy to get for $299, I also have a pair of Mammut MTN GTX, but I figure, again that choice is nice.

Trangs are fine, and have used them over the last bit but was lucky enough to pick up a clearance MSR Dragonfly for not much on clearance. I think multi fuel capacity is sensible.

And on it goes....


Anyway, good to chat.

[aloftas]

"japara", "hexamine" "yellow rainwear of dads"...kind of takes us back to a place where there was optimism and hope.

Thanks for sharing these glimpses back onto a past which sadly is only a distant visage.

Nice, however to know that the link still remains.


LOL

most Army Greatcoats would weigh more than some entire kits.

Thanks guys for bringing these evolutionary steps to mind.

[Lizzy]

It's funny because some of it was actually pretty light weight back then- ie just using a CCF mat and a tarp. I'm actually considering going back to a tarp for packraft trips to lighten (& make more compact) the load.... Going full circle

[vicrev]

The memory bells are ringing here.. Army Greatcoats were a must have & a short khaki jacket with heaps of pockets..

[aloftas]

It's funny because some of it was actually pretty light weight back then- ie just using a CCF mat and a tarp. I'm actually considering going back to a tarp for packraft trips to lighten (& make more compact) the load.... Going full circle

Back in the day, when I was a little Cadet, we had the single tarp bivy tied between two trees. It was great...ha! what a nice reverie...

cheers

Hobnail boots and apples tied into the corner of a spud bag with the rope over your shoulder....

:when I was a boy...."

[aloftas]

The memory bells are ringing here.. Army Greatcoats were a must have & a short khaki jacket with heaps of pockets..

Those woollen trousers with a hundred buttons but gee they were warm.

Of course, then there were the acts of stupidity and heroics like putting an unopened can of baked beans in the fire and jumping spreadeagled over the flames, waiting for the inevitable beansplosion.
*don't try this at home*

[vicrev]

The memory bells are ringing here.. Army Greatcoats were a must have & a short khaki jacket with heaps of pockets..

Those woollen trousers with a hundred buttons but gee they were warm.

Of course, then there were the acts of stupidity and heroics like putting an unopened can of baked beans in the fire and jumping spreadeagled over the flames, waiting for the inevitable beansplosion.
*don't try this at home*

That was really living on the edge.. .....Also your boot soles would start wearing and you would have the *&%$#! nails sticking into your feet but never complain,didn't want to be seen as a "sissy".... ...

[vicrev]

Sorry to go off topic,but......

[Mechanic-AL]

So you own no gear at all and suddenly have an itch to do the OLT. You go out and comfortably blow 2 grand getting set up to do it.
Hopefully completing such an awesome walk on your first outing will only spur you on to do more.............more being another 15-20 years of regular bushwalking.
If you invested wisely in the first place it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that some of the gear you purchased all those years ago has actually gone the distance on much of your walking escapades.
Divide 2 grand by all the years of walking the gear survived and I reckon your money would have been a damn good investment.

I know mine has been!!

[aloftas]

Sorry to go off topic,but......

off topic is good

nostalgia is good

[aloftas]

So you own no gear at all and suddenly have an itch to do the OLT. You go out and comfortably blow 2 grand getting set up to do it.
Hopefully completing such an awesome walk on your first outing will only spur you on to do more.............more being another 15-20 years of regular bushwalking.
If you invested wisely in the first place it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that some of the gear you purchased all those years ago has actually gone the distance on much of your walking escapades.
Divide 2 grand by all the years of walking the gear survived and I reckon your money would have been a damn good investment.

I know mine has been!!

I agree, it seems like a lot but its not.
Realistically, if ya saved $40 a week you have your two grand


cheers

[vicrev]

Sorry to go off topic,but......

off topic is good

nostalgia is good

Good on ya aloftas ......Just that some people on this forum are thin skinned & easily offended. ...eg..Off topic/commas in the wrong place/wrong gear/boots/etc etc...buggar Ivé gone off topic again,sorry... .....

[aloftas]

You are welcome to post what you like, and put as many commas where you like

[wildlight]

Divide 2 grand by all the years of walking the gear survived and I reckon your money would have been a damn good investment.

Oh how I wish I had the discipline to "only" stick with gear I'd bought until it was no longer surviving or usable…

Also LizzyC's comment about going full circle back to a tarp and CCF mat- there's probably more of us doing that too- having been relieved of currency over the years.

One thing that is DEFINTELY lighter- no kitchen-scale-analysis needed there- is my WALLET. Can anyone imagine Thurston Howell from Gilligan's Island going bushwalking?

Cheers
WildLight

[GPSGuided]

One thing that is DEFINTELY lighter- no kitchen-scale-analysis needed there- is my WALLET.

Nope! Used to just have 2-3 plastic cards and one $50 note in the wallet. Now, a stack of plastic cards plus cash. My wallet has gone far thicker and heavier now.