Razorback to MUMC hut with no tent - sensible?

[stevage]

Hi all,
Wondering if I could run my trip plan past people that have been up there lately.

Years ago, I was in MUMC and did the northwest spur a few times, and the razorback and bungalow spur once each. But it's been a while!

On Friday I'm planning to take a couple of friends snowshoeing across the razorback from Diamantina's hut (starting around 12pm) to stay at MUMC hut. Next day, side trip to summit Feathertop if conditions permit (in my experience, it was usually too icy). Third day, snowshoe back out.

One of the friends has done a fair bit of hiking (including the Buller Huts circuit solo), but not showshoeing, and not in this area specifically. The other is less experienced. I've snowshoed a few times (including the Razorback once)

I'd like to check a few assumptions:

- 5 hours should be plenty to snowshoe the 12km from Diamantina Hut to MUMC hut?
- MUMC hut is unlocked, has water, and is still fine to sleep in?
- Relying on MUMC Hut, and not bringing a tent, is a reasonable thing to do?

And a couple of questions:

- What's the situation with Fed Hut for sleeping in? I can't quite remember whether you can sleep *in* it or you're meant to bring a tent. If we wanted to spend the first night there, would it likely be full?
- What's the snow condition of the Razorback? Maybe it gets so much foot traffic it's easier to hike in the established footprints than snowshoeing?
- Any other day trip/side trips worth doing in the area?

Thanks very much!

[Xplora]

I'd like to check a few assumptions:

- 5 hours should be plenty to snowshoe the 12km from Diamantina Hut to MUMC hut?

Should be enough time if you are fit and the weather is good.

- MUMC hut is unlocked, has water, and is still fine to sleep in?

It is good to sleep in but there is no fire and does have water from a spring. There is a large sleeping area up a ladder but you never know who else will be there. It is not locked.

- Relying on MUMC Hut, and not bringing a tent, is a reasonable thing to do?

Not really. Huts should not be considered accommodation for those who want to carry less. If you have trouble on the journey and need shelter you will be in trouble.

And a couple of questions:

- What's the situation with Fed Hut for sleeping in? I can't quite remember whether you can sleep *in* it or you're meant to bring a tent. If we wanted to spend the first night there, would it likely be full?

It gets very busy at Fed hut and it has been designed to making sleeping in it less appealing. Bench type seating along the walls are quite narrow and you might roll off. Otherwise you can sleep on the dirty floor.

- What's the snow condition of the Razorback? Maybe it gets so much foot traffic it's easier to hike in the established footprints than snowshoeing?

Snow should be pretty good. Snowshoes will most likely be needed and will be better than post holing.

- Any other day trip/side trips worth doing in the area?

A loaded question. Depends on how keen your are but essentially the answer is no.

[Baeng72]

Xplora's already covered it, but my only thought when I saw this earlier today was what happens if you're stuck mid-Razorback (accident/weather change/Yowie or Alpine Shark attack)?
A tent or something similar is handy backup if you need someone to sit tight waiting for help.

[stevage]

Xplora's already covered it, but my only thought when I saw this earlier today was what happens if you're stuck mid-Razorback (accident/weather change/Yowie or Alpine Shark attack)?
A tent or something similar is handy backup if you need someone to sit tight waiting for help.

Yeah, but from my previous experience there, it's not like pitching a tent in bad weather along there would be particularly easy.

I guess I should err on the side of caution and bring one - we do have a three-person tent at least.

I also have a couple of emergency bivy bags to bring.

>A loaded question. Depends on how keen your are but essentially the answer is no.

Heh, yeah, that was my understanding.

[icefest]

Hi all,
Wondering if I could run my trip plan past people that have been up there lately.

Years ago, I was in MUMC and did the northwest spur a few times, and the razorback and bungalow spur once each. But it's been a while!

On Friday I'm planning to take a couple of friends snowshoeing across the razorback from Diamantina's hut (starting around 12pm) to stay at MUMC hut. Next day, side trip to summit Feathertop if conditions permit (in my experience, it was usually too icy). Third day, snowshoe back out.

One of the friends has done a fair bit of hiking (including the Buller Huts circuit solo), but not showshoeing, and not in this area specifically. The other is less experienced. I've snowshoed a few times (including the Razorback once)

I'd like to check a few assumptions:

- 5 hours should be plenty to snowshoe the 12km from Diamantina Hut to MUMC hut?
- MUMC hut is unlocked, has water, and is still fine to sleep in?
- Relying on MUMC Hut, and not bringing a tent, is a reasonable thing to do


And a couple of questions:

- What's the situation with Fed Hut for sleeping in? I can't quite remember whether you can sleep *in* it or you're meant to bring a tent. If we wanted to spend the first night there, would it likely be full?
- What's the snow condition of the Razorback? Maybe it gets so much foot traffic it's easier to hike in the established footprints than snowshoeing?
- Any other day trip/side trips worth doing in the area?

Thanks very much!

Sleeping at MUMC hut is fine. We have lights and a solar panel!
The pump at MUMC hut is currently out of action > no water.
MUMC sometimes have functions up at the hut. It may be that you arrive to find 40 students enjoying a bench traverse at 11pm at night, and then you won't get much sleep.
If the weather is bad or the team is unfit then the walk from diamantina may take 15h+

In summary, take a winter tent in winter.

[stevage]

> The pump at MUMC hut is currently out of action > no water.

Eep. Are there any options other than melting snow?

[Moondog55]

Melting snow or at least planning for it has been my default for d-d-decades, take a decent stove and plenty of fuel. Take the tent too. Last time I slept in the MUMC hut I swear the rats were at least a foot long not including tales.

[Lophophaps]

There are a few sheltered places on The Razorback - near the top of Champion Spur, Twin Knobs and a few minutes down the Diamantina Spur track. It could be a bit steep and icy on the Tom Kneen Track. One winter it took three exhausting hours skiing from the Bungalow Hut site to Federation Hut, our high point and we were the only people in the hut. For most of that time we could only see the ski tips. If it gets that slow on The Razorback, turn back early. A tent is essential. It may be brilliant weather and snow going out and horrible returning. There may be an accessible creek on the Tom Kneen Track. The biggest creek is in the gully. Take enough fuel for melting snow. The MUMC cook book has a rat souffle recipe, used by good chefs.

[Ethan Yarnall]

I would suggest a tent, for two reasons. Firstly MUMC hut is known for its rats, and I don't know about you, but the idea of sleeping with ROUS (Rodents of unusual sizes) doesn't sound great to me. Secondly, I know of many that have taken much longer than 5 hours to complete the Razorback in winter. I spent a couple nights in Federation hut a month or so ago, and a group of snowshoers arrived past sundown. They had started their walk early in the morning, and taken much longer than they expected. I would suggest that you leave as early as possible, you don't want to get stuck out along the razorback. As Lophophas said, there are a couple sheltered areas, but nothing that I would suggest camping in other than as a last resort. In my opinion, carrying some sort of shelter on any overnight hike in the Australian Alps, especially in winter is important (and depending in the extreme situation) can be the difference between life and death.

[stevage]

There are a few sheltered places on The Razorback - near the top of Champion Spur, Twin Knobs and a few minutes down the Diamantina Spur track. It could be a bit steep and icy on the Tom Kneen Track. One winter it took three exhausting hours skiing from the Bungalow Hut site to Federation Hut, our high point and we were the only people in the hut. For most of that time we could only see the ski tips. If it gets that slow on The Razorback, turn back early. A tent is essential. It may be brilliant weather and snow going out and horrible returning. There may be an accessible creek on the Tom Kneen Track. The biggest creek is in the gully. Take enough fuel for melting snow. The MUMC cook book has a rat souffle recipe, used by good chefs.

Wow, very good to know.

Can you clarify what made the conditions so slow? Slippery ice or something else?

[icefest]

> The pump at MUMC hut is currently out of action > no water.

Eep. Are there any options other than melting snow?

If there has been any recent snowfall, all the creeks above the snowline are covered in snow, if you know where you are you could dig a hole down to one.... but that doesn't seem worth the effort.

[Lophophaps]

The Bungalow spur trip had snow from a low level. As we got higher the snow became deeper and lighter. Once I took off my skis and sunk down a long way, about hip deep. There must have been a massive dump of snow. The only other times I can recall like that were in 1976 on the high plains and 1978 at Kosciuszko, over a metre for both, trapped in huts. The KNP trip was at Cesjacks, three days of very thick fog and lots of snow with minimal wind. We simply could not see where we were going in the whiteout, so we stayed there for three very cold nights. Then we went back to Grey Mare, Dargals and Bradneys Gap, epic ski and walk back to the cars.

I agree with Icefest. If the creeks are easily seen then collect water, but it may be easier to melt snow. Northern slopes melt first, but it's high and creeks could well be buried.

[Xplora]

Not wanting to assume so I thought I should mention you will have to pay resort entry and parking for the time you are there if you intend to take a car up the hill. There are also limits to the number of cars that can enter the resort each day. You should book ahead as people will be turned around at the entry once the resort is at COVID capacity if they have not pre paid.

I must admit to being a little annoyed with people who turn up to a hut without a tent and expecting to get a place to sleep. My experience is mostly I relation to Cleve Cole but have seen it at other mountain huts. Two blokes with two young children turned up late one winter without a tent and as members of the club we still do not think we have an entitlement to a place inside so we pitched our tent and gave up our place. Not even a thankyou.

A bit of warmer weather coming this week after the cold snap. Should be some melt.

[icefest]

I must admit to being a little annoyed with people who turn up to a hut without a tent and expecting to get a place to sleep. My experience is mostly I relation to Cleve Cole but have seen it at other mountain huts. Two blokes with two young children turned up late one winter without a tent and as members of the club we still do not think we have an entitlement to a place inside so we pitched our tent and gave up our place. Not even a thankyou.

We had a club function at MUMC hut a few weeks ago, at 8pm someone walked into the hut with only a day pack, to find 30 of us cooking in the hut, drinking martinis and dressed up in crazy costumes. After trying to sleep for 15 min they gave up and walked down again :/ Bring a tent

[Xplora]

I must admit to being a little annoyed with people who turn up to a hut without a tent and expecting to get a place to sleep. My experience is mostly I relation to Cleve Cole but have seen it at other mountain huts. Two blokes with two young children turned up late one winter without a tent and as members of the club we still do not think we have an entitlement to a place inside so we pitched our tent and gave up our place. Not even a thankyou.

We had a club function at MUMC hut a few weeks ago, at 8pm someone walked into the hut with only a day pack, to find 30 of us cooking in the hut, drinking martinis and dressed up in crazy costumes. After trying to sleep for 15 min they gave up and walked down again :/ Bring a tent

Club events can be a little confronting. I think I would have continued on even if I had a tent. Surprised he actually lasted 15 minutes. Love it. The Bogong Club is quiet accommodating and welcomes guests openly even when it is packed. A number of people have been cared for after getting misplaced on a day walk and not prepared for an overnight stay. You just never know when the hut will be full of people.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Take a 4 seasons tent, snow pegs , a 4 seasons sleeping bag , PLB etc etc. in white season in the Oz Alps and prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
I did three solid white seasons of winter mountaineering on Mt. FT and Mt. Bogong etc. with a snow shoes, an ice axe, micro spikes, snow tents, snow shovel etc. , before taking up skiing.
Experience is a harsh teacher.
Everything takes twice as long to do in the snow esp. if you are not on skis ( where if you have the Back Country ski skills you can make up time on descents etc. even with a heavy pack on your back ).
Never assume you will even be able to locate a hut let alone find any space inside it to sleep in.

In a total white out a hut could be 50 metres away and be impossible to locate even with a GPS and compass
but the wind chill could be minus 20. You need to get out of that weather within an hour or you will be in trouble.
How bad can the weather get up there?
Well atrocious is one word that comes to mind.

[Xplora]

I know we have had this discussion elsewhere but why do you need a PLB for a walk when mobile reception is good enough to stream video? PLB's are only to be used when other avenues are not available. That is written into law and it is just plain common sense. Why would you set off a PLB when you could call emergency services and talk directly? I think people are just being 'Nanny Stated' into thinking you cannot go for a simple walk without carrying a PLB.

The Razorback is a pretty good starter walk for those who have not snowshoed before and while I accept it is exposed, people have to work some things out for themselves. I don't see it is our role to be gatekeepers of the mountains. I am sure the OP will check the forecast. He appears to have considerable experience in the mountains already (from his previous posts) and has snowshoed the Razorback. Having some personal experience in whiteouts I can say a GPS is very handy. With just two waypoints I managed to find a narrow spur (the only way out) in a whiteout. Without it we would have turned back and followed our tracks but would have been stuck for days because of blizzards.

On the subject of weather for this weekend, not looking too bad until Sunday when a northerly wind will pick up and bring some type of precipitation. Monday is a different story.

[stevage]

> I must admit to being a little annoyed with people who turn up to a hut without a tent and expecting to get a place to sleep. My experience is mostly I relation to Cleve Cole but have seen it at other mountain huts. Two blokes with two young children turned up late one winter without a tent and as members of the club we still do not think we have an entitlement to a place inside so we pitched our tent and gave up our place. Not even a thankyou.

Agreed, in general. MUMC hut is pretty much the only hut I can think of where I would even consider not bringing a tent, because it is so big compared to its level of usage (Midnight Ascent aside...)

> We had a club function at MUMC hut a few weeks ago, at 8pm someone walked into the hut with only a day pack, to find 30 of us cooking in the hut, drinking martinis and dressed up in crazy costumes. After trying to sleep for 15 min they gave up and walked down again :/ Bring a tent

Yeah, I did Midnight Ascent 3 times, great fun (I did check that we weren't going to be clashing dates...)

> I know we have had this discussion elsewhere but why do you need a PLB for a walk when mobile reception is good enough to stream video? PLB's are only to be used when other avenues are not available. That is written into law and it is just plain common sense. Why would you set off a PLB when you could call emergency services and talk directly?

Mostly for the risk of phone having flat battery or failing for some other reason. I wouldn't count on getting reception if I fell down a gully either.


Anyway, quick summary of how the trip turned out (will write up a proper report):

- due to unrelated mishaps (got bogged in a state park on the way and had to spend the night unexpectedly!) we didn't get to start the Razorback until Saturday morning
- we took a 3 season tent, PLB, lots of water. Our least experienced group member had bailed on the trip, so just 2 of us.
- Friday night we camped ju outside the resort (car just outside the number plate scanning cameras...). Hiked maybe 1km up Gunns Track, which is basically a firebreak. Found a decent flat campsite at the first "summit", but would have been better if we'd pushed up to the second one.
- set off from Diamantina Hut around 9:30am, spectacular sunny weather
- made a mistake getting onto the Tom Kneen Track, followed the wrong set of snowshoes. The group of 3 snowshowers ahead of us was taking a creative route to MUMC hut, down and across a gully, rather than traversing around the side of Feathertop. Didn't realise for quite a while until we checked the GPS. We could have backtracked, but by then we could see that their route worked, so stuck with it.
- arrived MUMC Hut 5:30pm. I was a bit slower/less fit than I expected, my friend was more fit than expected - very quick up hills. (Clearly my guess of 5 hours was wildly optimistic)
- just the 5 of us in the hut. Currently there seem to be some serious maintenance issues with the sleeping platform, and a sign requesting people not to use it, so we slept downstairs.
- Sunday the forecast was for showers and snow with 30-40kph northerlies. We got up early, there was very poor visibility, so we decided to continue down Tom Kneen Tk rather than face at best an unpleasant day on an exposed windy ridge with no views. Downhill, the weather was great - clear, still, just a few drops of rain.
- Left the hut just after 8am, reached the bottom around 11:30. Northwest Spur track is in great condition - much better maintained than I ever remember seeing it. Very easy to follow all the way down. An awkward log bridge crossing at the end.
- Failed to get a hitch hike into Harrietville. Split up, I had lunch while my friend continued on, got a lift from Harrietville at 1:30.

All up, a really awesome time.

[brooksmi]

Was the water source in the MUMC Hut working? Also, any Rats about?