Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

[Xplora]

But my original question was about how steep/hard the SNS is, as reading it was same as Howitt surprised me as I've read about rock bands and you (Xplora) writing somewhere it's of a kind with Helicopter Spur.

Wasn't me. Have fun.

[Baeng72]

But my original question was about how steep/hard the SNS is, as reading it was same as Howitt surprised me as I've read about rock bands and you (Xplora) writing somewhere it's of a kind with Helicopter Spur.

Wasn't me. Have fun.

Apologies. My memory is playing tricks on me then.

[Hisham]

I've done upper howqua to Camp Creek via QS and SNS twice before, once moderately fit with some weight on my back, the other quite fit with less weight. Getting to Crosscut saw was ok and I still felt good on both occasions. But it's not easy from there to Camp Creek as exhaustion creeps in. Always slower than I anticipate and both times I got to CC with a couple hours of light left in Summer. Not sure what times I started but maybe 10-11am.

Definitely fill up at the water source up SNS just before it gets steep. I ran out of water the first time as I didn't do that (and it was very hot) and got into CC parched and exhausted.

It's certainly doable but might wreck you if you're not fit. Leave early. If you are not too confident when you get to the SNS water source, fill right up so you have enough in case you get to Mt Buggery and call it a day.

[Hisham]

SNS after the water source is steep and a bit of a slog, but doesn't compare to other steep sections I've taken in the area. Up to that point, its more than a gentle incline but fine.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Don't just fill up your bottles with water. Drink as much as you can on the spot too and chug down an oral rehydration powder sachet too.I did that going up to Mt. Murray in January 2022 . It was very helpful .

[Baeng72]

I nearly made it up there yesterday, but severe case of Man-Flu got the better of me.
I should get up there before Easter, great weather at moment.
I don't mind if I don't make it to Mt Spec on the first day, it's a goal.
The SNS is attractive because it has water part way up, so you can fill up there and camp at Buggery.
Howitt, unless you take a side trip to Mac. Springs you need to lug up lots of water, so not so attractive.

PCV, what brand rehydration powder do you use?
I just mix some gatorade/powerade powder with filtered water and use that or plain water while I'm walking.
When I get to camp, I use some hydralite tablets in water to try and stop the dreaded full body cramp when stretching in tent.
Actually, I might be getting more used to this caper as last few hikes I've avoided the full body cramp and just had a few leg/hand cramps.

[Xplora]

Find something with a magnesium supplement. Often left out of most powders and important for cramps. Easily depleted from your body but slow to replenish.

[Baeng72]

Find something with a magnesium supplement. Often left out of most powders and important for cramps. Easily depleted from your body but slow to replenish.

Cheers. I take 'Mega-Magnesium' tablets to stop my heart from bouncing about in my chest, so I'll pack a bit extra of that.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hydrolyte, ORS and/ or generic chemist's own brand of rehydration salts all work just fine for me. I also find after XC skiing
all day I can and do cramp up at night in the tent in the snow unless I consume some of this stuff.

[Stew63]

Howitt, unless you take a side trip to Mac. Springs you need to lug up lots of water, so not so attractive.

I camped on the summit of Mt Howitt 10days ago - there is a good water source near the summit. (Not marked on maps)
As you descend from the summit of Howitt (heading towards MacSprings) there is an old weather-beaten sign ' Water -> '
with a faint track leading off to the right (south) towards water. This junction is about 500m
from the summit. The water source is about ~200m from the junction - was flowing well 10days ago but doubt it would be in mid summer.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

My friend and I could not find that said water source in late Dec. 2021.

[Baeng72]

Which is the better approach to SNS for an out and back? From Upper Howqua/Queens Spur road or from Stanley Name Gap/Thorn road? They seem about the same distance. Thorn road seems to have some steep bits and might be a bit rough to non-existant pad. Upper Howqua/Queens Spur road has blackberries and gentlish climb after crossing river. I guess for a circuit Upper Howqua makes more sense, as you can head down Howitt Spur.

[Baeng72]

Howitt, unless you take a side trip to Mac. Springs you need to lug up lots of water, so not so attractive.

I camped on the summit of Mt Howitt 10days ago - there is a good water source near the summit. (Not marked on maps)
As you descend from the summit of Howitt (heading towards MacSprings) there is an old weather-beaten sign ' Water -> '
with a faint track leading off to the right (south) towards water. This junction is about 500m
from the summit. The water source is about ~200m from the junction - was flowing well 10days ago but doubt it would be in mid summer.

I've seen the sign, first time going past in summer, I didn't check it out as was pretty dry up top. 2nd time a few weeks later, it had rained and there were puddles around the sign, so no need to check it out.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Which is the better approach to SNS for an out and back? From Upper Howqua/Queens Spur road or from Stanley Name Gap/Thorn road? They seem about the same distance. Thorn road seems to have some steep bits and might be a bit rough to non-existant pad. Upper Howqua/Queens Spur road has blackberries and gentlish climb after crossing river. I guess for a circuit Upper Howqua makes more sense, as you can head down Howitt Spur.

If you park on the Circuit road you can walk out along the Thorn Range track / SNS walking track from Stanely name Gap to the camp site with water on SNS in a day . The track is not obvious the whole way once you leave the old 4 WD track. There are some steep bits and some over grown sections.
Once you leave the Mt. Thorn summit cairn and reach Red Rock Saddle then stay high with the escarpment on the south side and maintain that easterly direction . You should keep on eye on the Cross Cut saw. If you find you are heading for The Pimple then you have gone off course and are heading off track into a true wilderness in the upper King River area.
:-0
Stop and refind your route. The foot pad along the correct route is not that faint. Timber top students use that route in November. We met a group of intrepid female year 9 students at Mt. Thorn.

Yes you can return from The Cross Cut saw via The Howitt Spur. However if you have left your car on the Circuit road during the green season ( The Circuit road is closed from Mid June to Nov. for the XC ski season ) then you could go over to Mt. Speculation and camp there. Then continue along the Speculation road past Mustering flat and descend to King Hut via Muesli spur.
From there the trek up the Speculation road to rejoin the Circuit road is simple. You will smash out the last section back to your car at Stanely name gap.
Be quick if you are going soon. It snowed 10 cms on the weekend at Mt. Buller & at Mt. Stirling.
Some more snow is coming in the May 28- June 3rd period. Possibly enough to XC ski on !

Extreme cold and poor visibility in early winter could be things out there that should be avoided.
If there is enough snow then the foot pad on the Thorn range won't be easy to see!
Learn to surf and / or XC ski. The May to Oct. period are ideal for these pastimes when conditions are at their best for such activities.

[Baeng72]

Thanks Mr T!

I haven't done the Mt Thorn track, so just interested if I can fit it into a walk up to Mt Bugger or Mac. Springs over a weekend.
If it takes a day to get to the campsite on SNS via Mt Thorn track, then it must be slower/harder than via QS road from Upper Howqua I'm guessing.
It's an hour from Upper Howqua to Mt Thorn/Howitt Spur junction, then I imagine the next 4 km to the SNS campsite would take another 2 to 3 hours being rougher and uphill.
So that leaves about 4 to 5 hours to get to Mt Buggery after refilling at creek near campsite before I'm wandering in the dark. I'd start about 9am and hope to make camp by 5pm.
Looks like that's the best route.

I know days are short now, but there might be a chance in the next few weekends to get up that way before they close the roads and go up SNS to X-cut.
I missed the Easter/Anzac weekends due to man-flu of a quite persistent strain (or multiple man-flus), so looking to get something in before I turn my eye toward Western Vic for Winter.

I'll never surf, Greenpeace would mistake me for a cetacean and keep pushing me back into the water in a mistaken attempt to save me from beaching.
XC Ski sounds expensive and I'm great at hurting myself, so probably painful too.

I was looking at Snow Cam on Buller, from the camera I thought there wasn't 10cm on Burke St, as you can still see grass.
We were thinking of heading up for a bit of snow play/tobogganing with the kids, but didn't look like enough fell.
I can only go over a weekend, and Queen's BDay long weekend is when road closes, so I don't think camping on SNS & Mt Spec will fit.
I'm still in my 3 month trial period at work, so better not test the friendship by not missing work for bushwalking.

(P.S. I reread your Mt Thorn day walk/Heli Spur report that you posted a couple of years ago to see if I could get insight. Love the photos! You need to post more though )

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I said I would never ski and now I am ski mad and
plan to ski abroad every January until my body fails. I said I would never surf and now I am looking at getting a slightly smaller board, a third plank!.
Maybe 10cms of snow at Mt. Strirling on the weekend is exaggerating but IMHO Bushwalking season is done until Nov. .

[Baeng72]

What's the parking situation at Stanley Name Gap?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Parking off the Circuit road at Stanely Name Gap is easy. No Problem. .Carry enough water to last until you reach the water source at the SNS camp site.Take a map , compass, GPS with way points pre loaded.Pick a clear dry day for the views from Red Rock saddle of Mt. Magdala. Cross Cut saw etc. .Go for it.

[Hiking Exped]

If it helps - the road up to telephone box junction was *&%$#! awful a few weeks back even in a 4x4, it has taken a battering over summer and whilst it’s just a real bone shaker and full of pot holes when dry, when wet you’ll want to go easy. The rest of circuit road is in good shape.

I did the Mt Thorn route in early March and it was hard work and very overgrown then in parts and took much longer than normal so allow plenty of time if you choose that route.

The wetter, colder weather and darker early nights can have a significant impact.

I have just got back from a few days up that region, but to avoid that road I went through Sheepyards flat up to eight mile flat where they have just graded all the road and it’s very good. However, some diggers or 4x4 types had even made a mess on the track past the gate down to eight mile flat, with some big bog holes, caution required this time of year. Easy getting down, not so easy getting back up through bog holes back onto the road Diff locks definitely required. I should have parked at gate and walked down.

Anyway, the track up past Richies Hut, Pikes flat and Bindaree Hut to Upper Howqua is another nice approach this time of year if you have the time. It’s another day walking, but an easy one with better road access to start off. There was snow about and it was very wet this week so I kept to the Howqua feeder track up over Howitt and came back down via Mt Mag, Lovicks, the Bluff and back to the Richies hut track. A nice three nights. Plenty of water in streams, tanks, etc even on top of Howitt and at Hellfire. I left the CCS alone due to the weather and snow cover, but it’s likely gone now with milder days.

Good luck!

[Baeng72]

Thanks, I'm going in a 2WD with high clearance. When I went last time in Jan. it was all fine to Upper Howqua.
I've had another case of Man Flu so missed another opportunity today, so it's getting to the point where it's not likely.

EDIT: removed some self-pitying about health.

[Hiking Exped]

Get well soon and fully. Weather certainly getting more unpredictable up higher now and not the place to be with flu

Hopefully they have or are about to grade the road up to telephone box. Should be fine for 2wd normally, but a few weeks back it was shocking. They have just finished grading Brocks through Sherpyard to Eight Mile Flat so hopefully Stirling Road to telephone box is next or might have even been done.

Hoping to get back up that way at least once more before the proper snow

[Xplora]

Hoping to get back up that way at least once more before the proper snow

Make it this weekend or you may miss out. Did Howitt spur one May just after a huge dump. No snow shoes and soft powder sinking to your knees but then it rained and it was all gone in a day. Hard to know what will happen but feel this next system will not bring too much rain after.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Bushwalking season in the Vic. Alps is done IMHO. I am waxing my XC skis. The mother load of snow is coming starting on May 29th and is predicted to be really dumping down on May 31st and June 1st .

[Xplora]

Bushwalking season in the Vic. Alps is done IMHO. I am waxing my XC skis. The mother load of snow is coming starting on May 29th and is predicted to be really dumping down on May 31st and June 1st .

Done for some but others keep going through winter. Winter is a great time to enjoy all those places that are too hot in summer. I would also not say it is the mother load of snow coming but we are used to your exaggerations and hyperbole. Still a long way out and plenty of time for a downgrade. Maybe half a metre in it. The sort of skiing you do is basically bushwalking with skis on anyway so your season just changes colour. Skiing in May is hit and miss. You want to be there when the snow comes to get the best of it. Days are still warm and there is no base so the snow turns to crap pretty quick. Mostly it is fine if you only want to schuss along on the flats but you will quickly grab rock if you try any turns. Not really worth driving any great distance for it. I noticed a bit of snow yesterday still clinging to shelter and southern bits of BHP. There was a nice frost so we are getting the ground cooling proper now and this next system will help,

This weekend would be a great time to get out onto the mountains but there will be a bit of pre-frontal rain.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I am going to learn to Tele mark ski with the lifts at Falls Creek this season so watch this space. Hyperbole is a useful tool when used to good effect.

[Xplora]

I am going to learn to Tele mark ski with the lifts at Falls Creek this season so watch this space. Hyperbole is a useful tool when used to good effect.

Yes, but when you have a reputation for exaggerating people may not be sure how reliable your information is or they could be misled if they do not know you well. Hope you get some tele turns in this season since you have bought all the gear.

[Baeng72]

With the decent snow falls, ski-season has come early, and gates to circuit road are closed tomorrow arvo.
Apparently you can get to circuit road via Carter's road & Mt No 3 road.
I'm guessing they'd be 4WD only however.

[Xplora]

With the decent snow falls, ski-season has come early, and gates to circuit road are closed tomorrow arvo.
Apparently you can get to circuit road via Carter's road & Mt No 3 road.
I'm guessing they'd be 4WD only however.

Winter access to Xcut is generally better via Bluff hut. PCV has been in via No. 3 road to the Stirling area so a real 4wd is not necessary.

[Baeng72]

Winter access to Xcut is generally better via Bluff hut. PCV has been in via No. 3 road to the Stirling area so a real 4wd is not necessary.

I thought access to Bluff Hut was closed after Queen's birthday LW. I think that would be way to much for a 2WD in any case.
Would there be snow or ice issues on Carters/Mt No3 roads?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Carter's road is open all year round to Tomahawk Gap.
Parks Vic. , Vic. Roads and DEWLP have closed many roads in many mountainous places a week early due to the snowfalls this week.
If the OP is going up Carter's road then take a chainsaw. The road is in good order and you could get a 2 WD up there if you are sensible about it.
Carter's Mill camping area has been improved by DEWLP and it is now open for car camping.
It is popular in winter for skiers who want to be close to Mt. Buller and Mt. Stirling.
From Tomahawk Gap I would guess Mansfield DEWLP would have closed Road No. 3 and the hike up/ snow shoe trek or ski skin up is quite lung buster. The terrain above 1200 M. would be under snow and the snow is only going to get deeper in the next ten days.
If you go out there you need to know what you are doing. I have Nordic ski toured and snow camped in the No. 3 road area last winter and it gets properly cold. ' You'll need a 4 seasons tent that can take up to 40 cms of snow overnight and not collapse.